2017 Non Crows AFL Discussion Thread

[Apsaalooke]

Put the fine aside for a minute ......the Crows penalties were more severe than Essendon's .....that is laughable

That was because Chapman and Trigg were more interested in saving their own skins than any damage to the club, hence the hiring of QC's to argue the case. When Chapman was asked why we got such heavy penalties his reply was that the AFL wanted more - they wanted sackings! He couldn't have cared less about draft sanctions.
For once Vlad was right, they should have got sackings.

 

[Samcro24]

Watching the phil Walsh showdown, hard not to get keen for the season. On a side note, basil zempilas is completely unlistenable. Worse than dwayne. Where do they find these clowns?

 

[Rotayjay]

Where do they find these clowns?

Underneath Gill Maclachlan's desk

 

[jenny61_99]

IMHO, and i've followed this saga very closely ....on reflection there needed to be a strong Essendon official that simply laid it on the line to Hird, who appeared to operating without Essendon constraint ....and with "some" encouragement from Little

The forgotten man in this is Danny Corcoran, the Football Manager ....close friend of Hird, experienced Football Manager & Athletics senior administrator, who knew full well of the implication of Drugs in Athletics

As Football Manager IMO it was his over-riding responsibility to manage this program & control Hird, who i honestly think, thought he was doing nothing illegal ......Hirds stubbornness and propensity to getting his own way at Essendon, was his undoing & something i doubt he'll fully recover from business wise

But no-one mentions Corcoran .....he's basically got out of this scott free

You use the word "illegal" just like Essendon. "We didn't take anything illegal". In the very next breath "We don't know what we took, but it was safe". The irony is staggering. What they took was not WADA compliant, and some was experimental. Most were used for off-label purposes. The "safety" of any of these drugs - particularly in combination with other drugs - is still unknown. Hird knew AOD9604 was experimental. How the **** he thought that was ok is beyond me.

I suspect Corcoran doesn't get mentioned as much because of his situation at the time. Corcoran wasn't in a great state of mind at the beginning of the injection program - his wife was dying, diagnosed with brain tumours in October, passing away in December. He was at the club, but he wasn't "at" the club, if you know what I mean. He then took time off to go to Europe to grieve. Hird texted him when Reid put a stop to the program in January.



I suspect, with the exception of Doc Reid (who in my opinion, failed in his duty of care), whatever Hird wanted, Hird got.

 

[jenny61_99]

No i don't believe he's innocent at all ......my dislike for Essendon and Hird is immeasurable, but that POV is from the point in time that Essendon self reported, not what i believe to be Hirds original intention

Essendon didn't self report.

 

[jenny61_99]

I also don't like that hird was taking stuff himself. Stuff that was banned for players if I remember correctly. Doesn't paint a great picture. Wasn't it something to make him more tanned? Ridiculous.

I suspect Dank threw this little tidbit into the story when it became obvious they were claiming he'd gone rogue. It was a warning. Funnily enough, neither Essendon nor the individuals concerned have gone after Dank in any way shape or form since that point.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You use the word "illegal" just like Essendon. "We didn't take anything illegal". In the very next breath "We don't know what we took, but it was safe". The irony is staggering. What they took was not WADA compliant, and some was experimental. Most were used for off-label purposes. The "safety" of any of these drugs - particularly in combination with other drugs - is still unknown. Hird knew AOD9604 was experimental. How the **** he thought that was ok is beyond me.

I suspect Corcoran doesn't get mentioned as much because of his situation at the time. Corcoran wasn't in a great state of mind at the beginning of the injection program - his wife was dying, diagnosed with brain tumours in October, passing away in December. He was at the club, but he wasn't "at" the club, if you know what I mean. He then took time off to go to Europe to grieve. Hird texted him when Reid put a stop to the program in January.


I suspect, with the exception of Doc Reid (who in my opinion, failed in his duty of care), whatever Hird wanted, Hird got.

The last paragraph has been my point all along ......yet it gets dismissed within the big picture

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Essendon didn't self report.

not my understanding of events ?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I suspect Dank threw this little tidbit into the story when it became obvious they were claiming he'd gone rogue. It was a warning. Funnily enough, neither Essendon nor the individuals concerned have gone after Dank in any way shape or form since that point.

Isn't this because of the same absent of conclusive proof of what Dank injected, that makes it almost impossible for any legal action to succeed??

 

[jenny61_99]

The last paragraph has been my point all along ......yet it gets dismissed within the big picture

Except Hird knew they were injecting players with an experimental drug and if he'd just have googled the drug names would have found red flags aplenty to tell him they may not have been operating within the rules. It's almost as if he said one thing and meant another. Plausible deniability.

 

[jenny61_99]

not my understanding of events ?

You know that Demetrio tipped them off days before the ACC released their report, right?

 

[mistylake]

Who instigated the program? Who had the ultimate call as to wether it went ahead or was shut down?

I'll draw a parallel here.
If a homeowner gets a builder in to perform a task. It's the builders job to use the correct materials and use them in the correct manner. Mr. And Mrs. homeowner wouldn't have a clue if this is what's happening a lot of the time. There is a chance that Dank took liberties and told lies. Hird has played it pretty bad though and ended up being the face of this.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Except Hird knew they were injecting players with an experimental drug and if he'd just have googled the drug names would have found red flags aplenty to tell him they may not have been operating within the rules. It's almost as if he said one thing and meant another. Plausible deniability.

Didn't he rely on Dank to provide that feedback on a) legality, b) ephicacy, and c) saftey ? .....after all Dank was employed as the "expert" in this area, not Hird

 

[WaynesWorld19]

You know that Demetrio tipped them off days before the ACC released their report, right?

This is a point of contention, however if we accept it as correct .....my understanding is, he was advising Essendon to self report b4 ASADA laid a charge

 

[jenny61_99]

Didn't he rely on Dank to provide that feedback on a) legality, b) ephicacy, and c) saftey ? .....after all Dank was employed as the "expert" in this area, not Hird

Wasnt Doc Reid supposed to approve everything the players were given? Hird's directive. And in the next breath he's trying to bypass the Doc so the program could continue. And Wayne, it all comes back to Hird KNOWINGLY allowing an experimental drug to be used on his players. He had a responsibility to those players - as did Reid. Robinson and Dank were doing what they were told - push right to the edge of the rules without going over, get the players bigger, stronger as quick as you can. Whatever it takes. Anyone playing with fire is likely to get burned if they don't put the right protection in place from the outset.

 

[mistylake]

Just doesn't sit well with me, taking this shit for aesthetics when he is in a senior position, supposed to be a role model. Hey kids, if you want darker skin, go bang up some chemical

So does anyone know where they sell this stuff. Do you recon Chemist warehouse would stock it?

 

[jenny61_99]

This is a point of contention, however if we accept it as correct .....my understanding is, he was advising Essendon to self report b4 ASADA laid a charge

ASADA won't lay a charge before they investigate. He wanted them to "self-report" purely for optics. If ACC announced one club in the AFL had a systematic doping program, speculation would have been rife about who it was. This way Essendon are the good boys. They found out and reported it "straight away" to the AFL, and invited ASADA and the AFL to investigate. They then appoint Ziggy switzkowski (who just happened to be an Essendon coterie member) to conduct an internal review. Everything was spun to the enth degree. AFL also wanted to be able to use the fact that they "self-reported" to apply penalty reductions because they were cooperative.

 

[jenny61_99]

So does anyone know where they sell this stuff. Do you recon Chemist warehouse would stock it?

Dank sells it on his website.

Any reputable peptide and supplement supplier on line will have it.

Ok, delete reputable.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Wasnt Doc Reid supposed to approve everything the players were given? Hird's directive. And in the next breath he's trying to bypass the Doc so the program could continue. And Wayne, it all comes back to Hird KNOWINGLY allowing an experimental drug to be used on his players. He had a responsibility to those players - as did Reid. Robinson and Dank were doing what they were told - push right to the edge of the rules without going over, get the players bigger, stronger as quick as you can. Whatever it takes. Anyone playing with fire is likely to get burned if they don't put the right protection in place from the outset.

The highlighted portion is my continuing point though & Hird was relying on Dank to ensure the previous points i've raised

However i agree, what muddies this whole thing for me is Reids involvement and apparently being ignored /over ridden ? .....big red flag that no-one has adequately explained away

Understanding what you said re Corcoran, shouldn't the club have had contingencies to fill the Football Managers position in the interim? ......surely the club still had to support Hird as a very inexperienced coach

In the end, EFC and Hird failed .....however Hird just took everything to ridiculous levels and has/will pay the price accordingly

 

[WaynesWorld19]

ASADA won't lay a charge before they investigate. He wanted them to "self-report" purely for optics. If ACC announced one club in the AFL had a systematic doping program, speculation would have been rife about who it was. This way Essendon are the good boys. They found out and reported it "straight away" to the AFL, and invited ASADA and the AFL to investigate. They then appoint Ziggy switzkowski (who just happened to be an Essendon coterie member) to conduct an internal review. Everything was spun to the enth degree. AFL also wanted to be able to use the fact that they "self-reported" to apply penalty reductions because they were cooperative.

accurate summation

 

[mistylake]

Dank sells it on his website.

Any reputable peptide and supplement supplier on line will have it.

Ok, delete reputable.

I'll pass that on to my friend, cheers.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

So does anyone know where they sell this stuff. Do you recon Chemist warehouse would stock it?

Dark Web Supermarket

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is a point of contention, however if we accept it as correct .....my understanding is, he was advising Essendon to self report b4 ASADA laid a charge

This is naive thinking. Essendon self-reported with the AFL holding a gun to their head.

Why do you think it got nasty between Demetriou & Hird...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Dank sells it on his website.

Any reputable peptide and supplement supplier on line will have it.

Ok, delete reputable.

How is Dank still able to sell peptides?

Surely he should have been shutdown by now...

 

[WaynesWorld19]

This is naive thinking. Essendon self-reported with the AFL holding a gun to their head.

Why do you think it got nasty between Demetriou & Hird...

I can't figure that one out .....the topic of that phone conversation was irrelevant to the big picture? ....it does seem to be aimed at bringing Demetriou down, why i don't fully understand ?