Prediction Future of Josh has gone to the Dogs.

[Forward We Go]

oh no, is it time to start a "future of Hugh McCluggage" thread?

Sadly, Lions really need a thread for ALL of our young guns regardless of them being Lions Academy/Queenslanders or even non Victorians. We will always be behind the 8 ball when it comes to holding on to our stars with clubs all over the place offering BIG carrots to move back home or to a more AFL orientated state. Don't know what the answer is, but we need a unique incentive for these players to stay rather than leave because there is no doubt we are handicapped in this department regardless of how good ***'s & Noble are.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Thank you for giving me a laugh with your comments
When do you think the time will be when both QLD AFL clubs (there should only be 1 by the way) will no longer need to recruit interstate players in the draft? I am a Queenslander however spent more than 20 years living in Melbourne before moving back. I cannot EVER see QLD clubs ever being self sufficient with a team list of Queenslanders only. EVER! Comments like that just show how out of touch Victorians like yourself are with how interstate clubs struggle when AFL is not anywhere near the number 1 game.

Explain where I said cannot EVER draft players from Queensland.
I said clubs ALL clubs not just Queensland clubs will be careful recruiting interstate players with HIGH draft picks. Not saying don't draft interstate players at all
but its going to be a risk with your first pick for ALL clubs.
Next time you begin to laugh I suggest you read my post in its entirely before having a pot at me.

I get it its a touchy subject but I haven't come on here to troll even though many may think I have.

You guys have a luxury of an academy, want top end players to stay start developing them from in house and they will stay. Its a mute point anyway
as its something you guys are starting to do well and from what I understand you have a couple more coming in next seasons draft.

Maybe to protect clubs like yourself and others 1st round draft picks cant request a trade unless agreed upon or 4 years of service has been achieved.
That way gives clubs at the bottom time to improve and maybe once improvement is seen players won't want to leave.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Dunno why you're bothering to start anything with me. I'm just here to chat, I've always been respectful on your board. Feel free to check my history

If they're on the way up I'm sure you'll be very happy. Not my place to discuss that on your board and I don't know enough to offer an informed opinion

Don't worry about some of these kids. They get a bit touchy sometimes. Most of the time it's because most supporters from a traditional football state have no real understanding of the football landscape up here and those that think they do are only part way there. But if you come in peace and are willing to discuss rationally and learn then you're more than welcome.

"Flight risk" as they say in the classics is already well considered as an attribute in drafting for us. It shouldn't be, but it is. You'll note on our list a heavy leaning towards Vic Country kids over their Metro counterparts. So we're already limiting ourselves in what talent comes into the club. The big trouble is that if we're offering the same money as a Melb-based club it's hard to compete, even if they kids they're targeting are from the country - it's their home state and some of their mates will have moved to the city.

This is why the retention allowance worked for us - it meant we could put that little extra cherry on a contract to keep them here. All clubs were entitled to it if they had (someone will correct me if I'm wrong here) 70% percent or more interstate players on their list. It was long considered as a rort by some, but if it were such a rort why did any the Vic clubs not draft/recruit SA/WA kids in order to pay them more and build a better list? Why did West Coast not stack their side with mostly Victorian players? Because they all know it makes players happier if they're in a familiar environment.

 

[Forward We Go]

Explain where I said cannot EVER draft players from Queensland.
I said clubs ALL clubs not just Queensland clubs will be careful recruiting interstate players with HIGH draft picks. Not saying don't draft interstate players at all
but its going to be a risk with your first pick for ALL clubs.
Next time you begin to laugh I suggest you read my post in its entirely before having a pot at me.

I get it its a touchy subject but I haven't come on here to troll even though many may think I have.

You guys have a luxury of an academy, want top end players to stay start developing them from in house and they will stay. Its a mute point anyway
as its something you guys are starting to do well and from what I understand you have a couple more coming in next seasons draft.

Maybe to protect clubs like yourself and others 1st round draft picks cant request a trade unless agreed upon or 4 years of service has been achieved.
That way gives clubs at the bottom time to improve and maybe once improvement is seen players won't want to leave.

Still stand behind my comments.... and if you had experience in Academies & knowledge of the QLD AFL industry, I am sure you would have a very different opinion. The Lions Academy is NOT a luxury (as you DID say) we enjoy, its critical to have if we want a National comp & a program we need to develop QLD kids to play at the highest level. AFL is a religion in Victoria. AFL up here takes a very very big step back behind League and I don't see that changing. I get more info about Brisbane by subscribing to Melbourne newspapers/radio. Pick up the Courier Mail up here and more times than not, NOTHING is written about AFL. This mirrors the interest levels here relative to other sports played where down there it's everywhere you look. If we want a national competition that's going to make us competitive, we need assistance that gives us added incentives for players to come up here & stay.
Its tough but Northern clubs also get the benefit of selecting from academies which we dont. It all evens out in the end. It doesn't even out in the end....NOT EVEN CLOSE.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Still stand behind my comments.... and if you had experience in Academies & knowledge of the QLD AFL industry, I am sure you would have a very different opinion. The Lions Academy is NOT a luxury (as you DID say) we enjoy, its critical to have if we want a National comp & a program we need to develop QLD kids to play at the highest level. AFL is a religion in Victoria. AFL up here takes a very very big step back behind League and I don't see that changing. I get more info about Brisbane by subscribing to Melbourne newspapers/radio. Pick up the Courier Mail up here and more times than not, NOTHING is written about AFL. This mirrors the interest levels here relative to other sports played where down there it's everywhere you look. If we want a national competition that's going to make us competitive, we need assistance that gives us added incentives for players to come up here & stay.
Its tough but Northern clubs also get the benefit of selecting from academies which we dont. It all evens out in the end. It doesn't even out in the end....NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Different topic again but if its so dire up there than maybe a second Queensland team was a massive **** up on the AFL's behalf as it now means what ever little Queensland kids come through it gets diluted between 2 clubs. Gold Coast should have never come into the Comp and North Melbourne should have moved to Tasmania. That helps Brisbane and also makes it a more national sport.

I still feel the academy for many years wasn't used to the best of your clubs ability though. Its changing but something needed to be looked into many years sooner.

 

[Haso]

Different topic again but if its so dire up there than maybe a second Queensland team was a massive **** up on the AFL's behalf as it now means what ever little Queensland kids come through it gets diluted between 2 clubs.

Yes.

I still feel the academy for many years wasn't used to the best of your clubs ability though. Its changing but something needed to be looked into many years sooner.

Absolutely. It is now though.

This is why thr academies are not a luxury, but instead a necessity that should not be messed with. A two-tiered competition will be the result if we are not able to take advantage of it.

 

[Forward We Go]

Different topic again but if its so dire up there than maybe a second Queensland team was a massive **** up on the AFL's behalf as it now means what ever little Queensland kids come through it gets diluted between 2 clubs. Gold Coast should have never come into the Comp and North Melbourne should have moved to Tasmania. That helps Brisbane and also makes it a more national sport.

I still feel the academy for many years wasn't used to the best of your clubs ability though. Its changing but something needed to be looked into many years sooner.

Agree with the bold above 100%. Putting the Suns in up here in my opinion is plain & simple the AFL money grabbing again without looking the big picture. BUT, The Suns are here and we need to deal with it because they are not going away anytime soon.

With regards to the Academy, kind of agree that due to our 3 GF wins in a row, we probably didn't value as much as we should have but don't ever think the Academies are a luxury we enjoy. It's a necessity we need to develop AFL long term in this state. Seen it from both parts of the country, been actively involved in AFL in both states & think I know a little about AFL in both.

 

[dlanod]

You guys have a luxury of an academy, want top end players to stay start developing them from in house and they will stay. Its a mute point anyway

as its something you guys are starting to do well and from what I understand you have a couple more coming in next seasons draft.

See, that's part of the problem. It's viewed as a luxury down south. Up here's it's almost a necessity. You guys have the TAC Cup and something like 60-70% of any given draft year to pick through for home-grown talent. Qld and NSW had to dig into that same base and if someone comes to you going "hey, you're good at your job, want to move closer to home?"... what do the NSW and Qld clubs have to counter that? Either pay them more (unsustainable long term) or success (more sustainable long term, but what other teams have their existence predicated on long term success)?

Maybe to protect clubs like yourself and others 1st round draft picks cant request a trade unless agreed upon or 4 years of service has been achieved.
That way gives clubs at the bottom time to improve and maybe once improvement is seen players won't want to leave.

Strong agreement here.

Different topic again but if its so dire up there than maybe a second Queensland team was a massive **** up on the AFL's behalf as it now means what ever little Queensland kids come through it gets diluted between 2 clubs. Gold Coast should have never come into the Comp and North Melbourne should have moved to Tasmania. That helps Brisbane and also makes it a more national sport.

And here.

I still feel the academy for many years wasn't used to the best of your clubs ability though. Its changing but something needed to be looked into many years sooner.

How wasn't it used to the best of our ability? It's not like we were missing kids - the talent pipeline wasn't there. It's not like they weren't developing - guys like Andrews and Hipwood and Keays are best 22 now.

On an academy-related note, it's like people complaining that GWS isn't taking kids from Western Sydney. It takes time to develop the talent pipeline so you actually have good players coming through regularly - both recruiting kids into the academy and doing so far enough in advance that the academy helps improve them.

We're starting to see that pay dividends in the last two years, but bear in mind these are the first kids that have been in the academy since 12 or 13. Before that they'd only been in the academy a couple of years before being draft eligible simply because the academy didn't exist before that point.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

Yes.


Absolutely. It is now though.

This is why thr academies are not a luxury, but instead a necessity that should not be messed with. A two-tiered competition will be the result if we are not able to take advantage of it.

Luxury was maybe the incorrect word. My point was more it was something the Melbourne clubs didn't have so the Northern clubs needed to make the best use of it. GWS is over doing it but you guys were under doing it.

 

[dlanod]

This is why the retention allowance worked for us - it meant we could put that little extra cherry on a contract to keep them here. All clubs were entitled to it if they had (someone will correct me if I'm wrong here) 70% percent or more interstate players on their list. It was long considered as a rort by some, but if it were such a rort why did any the Vic clubs not draft/recruit SA/WA kids in order to pay them more and build a better list? Why did West Coast not stack their side with mostly Victorian players? Because they all know it makes players happier if they're in a familiar environment.

40% local players, so 60% interstate.

Counts prior to last year's draft:

• Brisbane: 28%
• Sydney: 33%
• Adelaide: 33%
• Port Adelaide: 39%
• Fremantle: 39%
• (Old cut-off used to be 40% or less)
• West Coast: 60%

 

[dlanod]

Luxury was maybe the incorrect word. My point was more it was something the Melbourne clubs didn't have so the Northern clubs needed to make the best use of it. GWS is over doing it but you guys were under doing it.

GWS is a special case as shockingly it turns out an AFL-centric area can have talent, it's just that no one had an incentive to focus on that area for 20 years. The other three clubs don't have that AFL-centric area.

You do understand that teams can only draft the players that exist in their academy, right? I'm curious to hear how the non-GWS clubs can improve without annexing part of somewhere within 30 minutes drive of the Murray or further south.

 

[Dalions]

Luxury was maybe the incorrect word. My point was more it was something the Melbourne clubs didn't have so the Northern clubs needed to make the best use of it. GWS is over doing it but you guys were under doing it.

Its not like the talent just appears up here.
First you need to find them, then you need to keep them and develop them in a world where other sports get a far greater backing and support.
Its all well and good to say from the outside that the academy was a flop in its early years. But that is just not true. These things do not just happen with the click of a finger. We are only now starting to see the fruits of labour from 5 yrs ago.
But we do not have the endless stream that Victoria does and never will.

 

[briztoon]

Luxury was maybe the incorrect word. My point was more it was something the Melbourne clubs didn't have so the Northern clubs needed to make the best use of it. GWS is over doing it but you guys were under doing it.

How were we under doing it? Can't produce the talent if it's not there or doesn't want to come. You southerners must think, "oh there's kids lining up to play in the northern academies or something".

How many Melbourne/Victorian kids have made their way on to the Melbourne Storm NRL list?

GWS are an anomaly in regards to the academies, in that they were given some regions where AFL is the number one and first choice sport. It speaks volume about the lack of foresight the AFL had in giving GWS these regions, and it also speaks volumes about how underdeveloped these regions were, when GWS started producing more talent out of these areas than the AFL had seen before.

As is often repeated by QLD'ers, you Victorians have no idea what the sporting landscape is like up here.

 

[Forward We Go]

Its not like the talent just appears up here.
First you need to find them, then you need to keep them and develop them in a world where other sports get a far greater backing and support.
Its all well and good to say from the outside that the academy was a flop in its early years. But that is just not true. These things do not just happen with the click of a finger. We are only now starting to see the fruits of labour from 5 yrs ago.
But we do not have the endless stream that Victoria does and never will.

EXACTLY...well said.

 

[SRH17]

Different topic again but if its so dire up there than maybe a second Queensland team was a massive **** up on the AFL's behalf as it now means what ever little Queensland kids come through it gets diluted between 2 clubs. Gold Coast should have never come into the Comp and North Melbourne should have moved to Tasmania. That helps Brisbane and also makes it a more national sport.

I still feel the academy for many years wasn't used to the best of your clubs ability though. Its changing but something needed to be looked into many years sooner.

Of course it was, have a look at the crowd the Suns got on the weekend, but then again the AFL is all about the money they can generate from TV rights. I am assistant coach of an under 14's team and we have got about 17 kids signed up - poor buggers have no bench and absolutely knackered at the end of each half.

 

[Skoob]

You guys have a luxury of an academy, want top end players to stay start developing them from in house and they will stay. Its a mute point anyway
as its something you guys are starting to do well and from what I understand you have a couple more coming in next seasons draft.

.

Yeah, how lucky are we?
Academies fix everything, and in fact it's almost unfair, how good we've got it.

FYI the academies give us a chance to better develop some home grown talent. That is all. Yes, we get first dibs on the best, but the discount we get on those is constantly being watered down, so we will end up paying the same as other clubs pay for their best talent (draft picks wise).
A lot of talent from the academies also go to interstate clubs, either at draft time, or down the track if lured by 'the big time'.
Perhaps it is best to stop calling it a "go home" factor and consider the lure of playing in footy heartland more about just that. Sure, Vic players want to go back to play in Melbourne (or Adelaide, or Perth) but is it just a home factor? I think it has far more to do with being in a traditional footy state. Qlders drafted to Melbourne clubs are less likely to return to Qld, due to home sickness. Equally, the lure of playing at a big Vic club can be just as enticing to a Brisbane boy as it is for someone from Victoria.
So the strength or luxury of the academies is a bit of a furphy in terms of being a fix. It gives us a better chance of instilling some hometown loyalty and reducing homesickness, but too many overestimate that strength.
It isn't a ****ing luxury FFS, it is a small compensatory offset.

 

[Cevap_Roll]

GWS is a special case as shockingly it turns out an AFL-centric area can have talent, it's just that no one had an incentive to focus on that area for 20 years. The other three clubs don't have that AFL-centric area.

You do understand that teams can only draft the players that exist in their academy, right? I'm curious to hear how the non-GWS clubs can improve without annexing part of somewhere within 30 minutes drive of the Murray or further south.

I won't argue with that one. What the AFL are creating is disgusting and questioned if I wanted to continue my love of my club as we obviously have been a basket case for so long. I think they were scared of what the A-League were doing in Western Sydney and needed to combat it ASAP.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Luxury was maybe the incorrect word. My point was more it was something the Melbourne clubs didn't have so the Northern clubs needed to make the best use of it. GWS is over doing it but you guys were under doing it.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe collingwood has an academy. They use it as a camp for their father/son recruits. Thought I saw that written somewhere last year. Again not entirely sure on that one.

 

[Eons]

Schaches not going anywhere....












This year

 

[M Malice]

Schaches not going anywhere.

yer, this losing young guns narrative is a total myth not reality.

 

[kenberger]

Different topic again but if its so dire up there than maybe a second Queensland team was a massive **** up on the AFL's behalf as it now means what ever little Queensland kids come through it gets diluted between 2 clubs. Gold Coast should have never come into the Comp and North Melbourne should have moved to Tasmania. That helps Brisbane and also makes it a more national sport.

Der

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Yeah here it is. Peter Dean father/son academy. It was carlton my mistake. I cant get the link to paste sorry, but if you search it you cant miss it.

 

[winged1]

Its not like the talent just appears up here.
First you need to find them, then you need to keep them and develop them in a world where other sports get a far greater backing and support.
Its all well and good to say from the outside that the academy was a flop in its early years. But that is just not true. These things do not just happen with the click of a finger. We are only now starting to see the fruits of labour from 5 yrs ago.
But we do not have the endless stream that Victoria does and never will.

Union seems to be getting their act together and we are losing a few to them at jnr level. But when most of the talented go to private school and there isn't a strong afl comp between them it puts development back.

 

[Dalions]

Union seems to be getting their act together and we are losing a few to them at jnr level. But when most of the talented go to private school and there isn't a strong afl comp between them it puts development back.

If it's not Union, it's League and if it's not league is Soccer.
A constant battle coming from all directions.

 

[CarterS]

Uncertainty here is why we need to keep Freeman on our list and develop him as best we can. Worst case scenario we could have Freeman/Close/Hipwood next year (with Ballenden coming through).