Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[00VicWard001]

I'm not saying it at all, it was a player that said it.

Also can you explain why Port Adelaide and St Kilda hired highly qualified education professionals from Melbourne Uni to do seminars in the pre-season which are set to continue in a 6 week block soon with the coaches specifically around better teaching methods and making sure communication of message is understood by both parties? More and more player feedback is being valued in order for coaches to understand what they're teaching and what their students/players are learning, at the core of this is coach player relationship.

Hawthorn had mostly qualified teachers on their staff during their period of success and we don't have one?

Does Joel Corey have a teaching background?

 

[JumpyHolden]

Let's see where we finish this year GC26, my bet is it'll be lower than last year and will mean despite getting Danger and all the rest we'll still finish outside the top 4 and get nowhere near your mythical flag that's around the corner every year.

Brilliantly put BC and love the way you passionately stick to your guns. This thread reminds me so much of watching someone feed peanuts to monkeys.

 

[BlightysCats]

Brilliantly put BC and love the way you passionately stick to your guns. This thread reminds me so much of watching someone feed peanuts to monkeys.

The problem is sometimes I actually try to feed them fruit but they can't see the peanuts from the fruit.

I think I need to work on my idioms a bit more...

 

[dazbroncos]

They can follow a game plan just not one that's unnecessarily complex and not delivered to them in a clear concise way. When teaching you have to deliver the message in a way the player can understand and you only know that through honest clear feed back from the player that they do understand what's being talked about or asked of them. As simple as this concept is believe me it's not being done at many AFL clubs as much as it should be.

To make that assessment upon delivery and complexity, you must have been there to see the delivery of a game plan that was complex and then not complex, and been able to differentiate between the two.

That's the only way you could draw such analysis.

Or what you say here is complete bullshit.

So, which is it. Where you there for both or is it complete bullshit?

Go Catters

 

[Landgraft]

Let's see where we finish this year GC26, my bet is it'll be lower than last year and will mean despite getting Danger and all the rest we'll still finish outside the top 4 and get nowhere near your mythical flag that's around the corner every year.

You've already given a guarantee that we'll be outside the 8. You'd have staked your reputation on it if you had any reputation worth staking.

 

[romeohwho]

The problem is sometimes I actually try to feed them fruit but they can't see the peanuts from the fruit.

I think I need to work on my idioms a bit more...

Hmm. Is jumping the shark an idiom?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I'm not saying it at all, it was a player that said it.

Also can you explain why Port Adelaide and St Kilda hired highly qualified education professionals from Melbourne Uni to do seminars in the pre-season which are set to continue in a 6 week block soon with the coaches specifically around better teaching methods and making sure communication of message is understood by both parties? More and more player feedback is being valued in order for coaches to understand what they're teaching and what their students/players are learning, at the core of this is coach player relationship.

Hawthorn had mostly qualified teachers on their staff during their period of success and we don't have one?

Please find these articles stating that players at st kilda or port Adelaide, Geelong are confused by their roles and what is being reached to them or any coach for that matter. This is simply you making stuff up again blighty just like the imaginary Paul chapman quote which you could never give a page reference for when I asked.
If your trying to solve the mystery of why AFL coaches further develop themselves with added training such as seminars and learning programs, well I'm sure someone else can explain to you what continual improvement is and innovation, clubs do this in many ways all the time. It doesn't mean your good or bad at it, they are all improving and finding ways to constantly.

And no blighty, you don't need to be a teacher to be a successful afl coach.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Let's see where we finish this year GC26, my bet is it'll be lower than last year and will mean despite getting Danger and all the rest we'll still finish outside the top 4 and get nowhere near your mythical flag that's around the corner every year.

Why would anyone bother having those discussions with you when it's been proven your not a man who can stick by what he says or admit when he has been proven wrong, so that's a pointless exercise. You said Geelong wouldn't make the four last year, you then said Geelong wouldn't even make the top 8. You then said Geelong wouldn't win a final. You where wrong on all accounts. When it came time to eat humble pie on these things it was like watching a rat half stuck through a tiny hole in the wall squirming like crazy. When you learn to stick by what you say and not Chop and move goal posts, people will take things you say more seriously

 

[00VicWard001]

The problem is sometimes I actually try to feed them fruit but they can't see the peanuts from the fruit.

I think I need to work on my idioms a bit more...

I think you've been eating your own peanuts...

 

[geelong_crazy26]

You've already given a guarantee that we'll be outside the 8. You'd have staked your reputation on it if you had any reputation worth staking.

This is the same man who said Geelong wouldn't win a final then when they did he claimed it wasn't a real win because of the way they won. We know he can't stick to what he says with integrity

 

[00VicWard001]

Why would anyone bother having those discussions with you when it's been proven your not a man who can stick by what he says or admit when he has been proven wrong, so that's a pointless exercise. You said Geelong wouldn't make the four last year, you then said Geelong wouldn't even make the top 8. You then said Geelong wouldn't win a final. You where wrong on all accounts. When it came time to eat humble pie on these things it was like watching a rat half stuck through a tiny hole in the wall squirming like crazy. When you learn to stick by what you say and not Chop and move goal posts, people will take things you say more seriously

His one crowing moment was literally a guess. The bulldogs to win the premiership. Wow. A guess, which has now morphed into a demonstration of astute list management and strategic planning understanding.

 

[bph25]

Can't be bothered reading through this horrid thread but thought I'd just state
The Geelong coaching group implemented a plan B C and D against North in the last quarter and stole 4 points they didn't deserve.
No plan B is a statement people with a low IQ that can't accept losing spit out when they are upset.
The above is all factual
Thanks for your time

 

[Sttew]

Brilliantly put BC and love the way you passionately stick to your guns.

Hardly surprising you find BC's post to be "brilliantly put". He's had over 1,450 goes at saying the same thing in this thread*, which is some record.

* Not to mention the 1,000+ posts in Part 1

 

[PhatBoy]

I don't think I've ever seen so much w***ery over one game as what I've seen over the swans match. It was one game of footy ffs. If it was a recurring pattern that we just get blown away every time we play a big game or against a decent opponent, fine. But it's not. The only two demonstrably awful finals performances we've put in under Scott have been 5 seasons apart. The swans and Fremantle. And even against Fremantle we came home strong at least. North jumped us once but we still almost stole that match. Even the Sydney match, we actually won the last three quarters as a whole so he must have done something to at least arrest the problem.

In between we faded in the last term against Hawthorn and Fremantle. Guess what, that happens when you play good sides.

Is there suddenly no room in sport for just saying 'you know what, we were below our best and the other side came out and played some ripping footy.'

No, it has to be a long standing communication issue which mysteriously has no impact at all for the first six months of a season but just appears once.

 

[PhatBoy]

Can't be bothered reading through this horrid thread but thought I'd just state
The Geelong coaching group implemented a plan B C and D against North in the last quarter and stole 4 points they didn't deserve.
No plan B is a statement people with a low IQ that can't accept losing spit out when they are upset.
The above is all factual
Thanks for your time

It's a joke mate. If you look at the amount of times we've either come back and stolen a win, almost stolen a win, or been jumped and at the very least stopped the bleeding, it beggars belief that anyone can think we don't have alternative methods of play.

I think every Cats fan can acknowledge that we have a reasonably (once every 4-5 games or so) regular habit of starting slowly but that would seem to indicate that if anything it's either our application or our go-to game plan that struggles from time to time.

 

[Partridge]

Hardly surprising you find BC's post to be "brilliantly put". He's had over 1,450 goes at saying the same thing in this thread*, which is some record.

* Not to mention the 1,000+ posts in Part 1

There's nothing wrong with that Stew. There's plenty of other mutual agreement and similar comments on the other side.

I've also got big doubts about Scott and the direction and philosophy they've taken. I don't take it to the same level BC does, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing. And there's plenty of other repetition by other posters as well.

 

[dazbroncos]

This is the same man who said Geelong wouldn't win a final then when they did he claimed it wasn't a real win because of the way they won. We know he can't stick to what he says with integrity

GPS 101.

Goal Post Shifting.

Go Catters

 

[Sttew]

There's nothing wrong with that Stew. There's plenty of other mutual agreement and similar comments on the other side.

I've also got big doubts about Scott and the direction and philosophy they've taken. I don't take it to the same level BC does, but it doesn't mean it isn't worth discussing. And there's plenty of other repetition by other posters as well.

Can't agree more, and that is the thing. I seriously doubt any Geelong supporter on BF is 100% enamoured with Chris Scott, but because we are bombarded with a tirade of hostile posts about communication, the need to get rid of club champions, the need to fully rebuild, the need to get rid of Brian Cook, etc., etc., human instinct is to become defensive. It's like you're on the main board arguing with supporters of other clubs. Now some of us ignore. Many of us feel the need to correct the many untruths and "fake news".

 

[dazbroncos]

Can't agree more, and that is the thing. I seriously doubt any Geelong supporter on BF is 100% enamoured with Chris Scott, but because we are bombarded with a tirade of hostile posts about communication, the need to get rid of club champions, the need to fully rebuild, the need to get rid of Brian Cook, etc., etc., human instinct is to become defensive. It's like you're on the main board arguing with supporters of other clubs. Now some of us ignore. Many of us feel the need to correct the many untruths and "fake news".

Quoted for truth.

Great post.

GO Catters

 

[PhatBoy]

One thing I'd really like to know is this.

If we were to clear out and rebuild, basically be shit for 3 seasons and get all these draft picks that guarantee success (as Carlton, Melbourne, Gold Coast and Richmond have proven), what happens if we get it wrong with who we pick and it goes **** up. What then? Start another rebuild but without a decade of finals appearances to fall back on as consolation?

 

[dazbroncos]

One thing I'd really like to know is this.

If we were to clear out and rebuild, basically be shit for 3 seasons and get all these draft picks that guarantee success (as Carlton, Melbourne, Gold Coast and Richmond have proven), what happens if we get it wrong with who we pick and it goes **** up. What then? Start another rebuild but without a decade of finals appearances to fall back on as consolation?

I asked the exact same question.

Of course, the reply was nothing but crickets and tumbleweeds.

GO Catters

 

[Partridge]

One thing I'd really like to know is this.

If we were to clear out and rebuild, basically be shit for 3 seasons and get all these draft picks that guarantee success (as Carlton, Melbourne, Gold Coast and Richmond have proven), what happens if we get it wrong with who we pick and it goes **** up. What then? Start another rebuild but without a decade of finals appearances to fall back on as consolation?

What if you don't clear out and rebuild, but keep your draft picks and focus more on developing your own core of players?

Or another question:

What if you give away draft picks, and get all these ready made 25-26 year olds that guarantee success, what happens if that goes wrong?

 

[barmy44]

One thing I'd really like to know is this.

If we were to clear out and rebuild, basically be shit for 3 seasons and get all these draft picks that guarantee success (as Carlton, Melbourne, Gold Coast and Richmond have proven), what happens if we get it wrong with who we pick and it goes **** up. What then? Start another rebuild but without a decade of finals appearances to fall back on as consolation?

I asked the exact same question.

Of course, the reply was nothing but crickets and tumbleweeds.

GO Catters

even in our 'superdrafts' of '99 and '01, some of our highest picks were busts and not part of the flag winning side. bray, spriggs, foster and gardiner all top 25 picks.

failures happen, even with wells picking them and bomber coaching them.

i also posed this same query to blightys in a now locked thread, so if youre actually interested in his thoughts on this:

"out of curiousity BlightysCats - and genuine question:

we aggressively trade out our current stars starting october 2017, and wells hits the draft HARD over the next few seasons. joel corey comes in as head coach.

the draftees are, on the whole, classic wells 'left of centre' picks. they arent that good. joel corey turns out to be a very poor head coach.

in 10 years time, geelong select their latest in a string of top 4 picks. most experts predict he will again amount to little, much like the last 5.

how do you feel then? again, genuine question... im not trying to inflame anything."

the response was basically 'it cannot fail':

"I don't feel that would happen, I trust Wells to recruit good kids especially with good picks, I trust Corey and his time both at Geelong under Bomber and under Beveridge to be able to teach them the right way, I trust the stable environment of our club and the new culture the kids playing for it would create based on the solid foundations of the Bomber/Beveridge values Corey would bring to the table, and I trust a clear plan for success. By presuming it'd all fall apart you lack trust in Wells, Corey, and the club in general."

i think blightys is genuine, but i think he enjoys posting to get reactions more. pure dogma. that last sentence of his in particular strikes me as trying to kick start a circular argument about 'who has more faith' and on and on...

anyway, the above answers both your queries as to blightys thoughts on potential 'failure', i think.

its very easy to have all the definitive answers when there is no possibility of them being tested.

 

[PhatBoy]

even in our 'superdrafts' of '99 and '01, some of our highest picks were busts and not part of the flag winning side. bray, spriggs, foster and gardiner all top 25 picks.

failures happen, even with wells picking them and bomber coaching them.

i also posed this same query to blightys in a now locked thread, so if youre actually interested in his thoughts on this:

"out of curiousity BlightysCats - and genuine question:

we aggressively trade out our current stars starting october 2017, and wells hits the draft HARD over the next few seasons. joel corey comes in as head coach.

the draftees are, on the whole, classic wells 'left of centre' picks. they arent that good. joel corey turns out to be a very poor head coach.

in 10 years time, geelong select their latest in a string of top 4 picks. most experts predict he will again amount to little, much like the last 5.

how do you feel then? again, genuine question... im not trying to inflame anything."

the response was basically 'it cannot fail':

"I don't feel that would happen, I trust Wells to recruit good kids especially with good picks, I trust Corey and his time both at Geelong under Bomber and under Beveridge to be able to teach them the right way, I trust the stable environment of our club and the new culture the kids playing for it would create based on the solid foundations of the Bomber/Beveridge values Corey would bring to the table, and I trust a clear plan for success. By presuming it'd all fall apart you lack trust in Wells, Corey, and the club in general."

i think blightys is genuine, but i think he enjoys posting to get reactions more. pure dogma. that last sentence of his in particular strikes me as trying to kick start a circular argument about 'who has more faith' and on and on...

anyway, the above answers both your queries as to blightys thoughts on potential 'failure', i think.

its very easy to have all the definitive answers when there is no possibility of them being tested.

The stability of the club that he speaks of would no longer exist if we went more than 3 seasons without seeing a return for investment.

 

[barmy44]

What if you don't clear out and rebuild, but keep your draft picks and focus more on developing your own core of players?

Or another question:

What if you give away draft picks, and get all these ready made 25-26 year olds that guarantee success, what happens if that goes wrong?

no method is foolproof, and what worked once may not work again.

high draft picks guarantee nothing, and drafting other clubs guns in their mid 20s also guarantees nothing. i also do find it interesting that a lot of our gun picks that built the best geelong team in history were later picks, with the teens/twenties picks not doing much.

in any event, its of academic interest to us only. no matter what path the club takes, if it goes wrong, what happens? we keep watching and hoping someday soon the club will get it right.

the big problem i have is the antagonistic posting - going both ways - about who is 'right', whose subjective opinion is objective truth etc.

there are numerous posters here who know more than i, and its a shame without being a surprise that the internet turns most discussions here into a battle of personality and 'footy knowledge / rightness' as opposed to a back and forth of respectful and balanced thoughts and opinion.

would be quite interesting to have these discussions face-to-face as opposed to online... would be far less rude, antagonistic, etc and a lot more constructive. and if it was just the same, it would really speak to the quality of person involved.

dang internet.