Review Saints vs Cats review

[St_Laz]

Thanks for the heads up.
Sorry for not making it clearer but I was asking you a question about rotating the mids.
I'm not focused on whatever the rucks or anyone else are doing.
I don't care.
I'm asking about mids only.
I still do not understand this emphasis on TOG.

Three mid positions (ruck rover, rover and centre) plus one rotating through from elsewhere on the ground = four mids.
IF we have two mids on the pine that means a total of six mids and, everything else being equal, an average TOG of 67%.
If we have more mids rotating off the pine, like the four you were talking about, then the average TOG must be 50%.

Or if we have two rotating through from elsewhere on the ground (= five mids) plus two mids on the pine, that still means an average TOG of 70%.
If we have more mids rotating off the pine, like the four you were talking about, then the average TOG must be 55%

And compounding this: If there is a Dangerwood involved, they would have higher TOG so the others by definition must have lower TOG.

This is not rocket science, this is basic mathematics.

So why the melts about Dunstan's TOG?

If the rotation protocols are unknown (as would be here) then surely a player's TOG is not a reflection of their "tank", but simply a meaningless statistic and people who quote them are only revealing their ignorance?

100% with you. TOG melts is strange. Even taking a more generic step back. If the were only 18 players, everyone would play 100% TOG. But we have 22.

So total avg TOG is 18/22 = 81%. Some guys play more (e.g fullbacks, CHBs and some fitter guys) which means that some others have to play less. If Dunstan/Paddy played more then someone else has to play less.

Also, 10% less game time is only 3min per quarter. 1 extra benching per half.

Storm --> teacup.

 

[Kilroy]

I got told some inside info in strict confidence. Dempster offered a job outside footy and was definitely weighing his future. It wasn't a football issue at all which was a relief to me. Apparently Paddy was told he was over weight not working hard enough and would be traded out if he doesn't start pulling his finger out. Apparently he was read the riot act and was pretty pissed off as you would expect.

Sorry Gringo, but that's just not our style. Your source may have added some mayo there.

 

[Persevering Saint]

100% with you. TOG melts is strange. Even taking a more generic step back. If the were only 18 players, everyone would play 100% TOG. But we have 22.

So total avg TOG is 18/22 = 81%. Some guys play more (e.g fullbacks, CHBs and some fitter guys) which means that some others have to play less. If Dunstan/Paddy played more then someone else has to play less.

Also, 10% less game time is only 3min per quarter. 1 extra benching per half.

Storm --> teacup.

The TOG thing is less of a problem than other pretty important quantifiers, like disposals for an inside mid.

 

[sunny3193]

The TOG thing is less of a problem than other pretty important quantifiers, like disposals for an inside mid.

What's the story with the second dose of flu?
No heating in the History Faculty?

 

[Crusty Undies]

You are confusing. You want longer to play because you think he is a better tap ruckman but then you say that probably won't help with clearances. If that is the case then surely you want the better around the ground ruckman to play and everything points to hickey in that department


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I should clarify. I don't think adding more ruckmen into the starting 22 will increase clearances as they would be playing at the expense of a midfielder.

 

[Persevering Saint]

What's the story with the second dose of flu?
No heating in the History Faculty?

Three kids, including a 3yo and 10mo. They're like permanent nostril-vampires.

 

[Saintbloke]

If you dont have cattle theres not much you can do. Endevour will only get you so far. These guys have a serious crack thats all you can ask for at this stage.

A defeatist attitude sorry.

 

[Rors]

Joey speaks out about THAT 50m penalty.
https://www.triplem.com.au/sport/afl/news/leigh-montagna-speaks-out-about-his-farcical-50m-penalty

Not sure if it was the case, but if it's Zac Smith's free kick, why is Mackie taking the kick??? Or did Smith handball off to Mackie after the 50m?

 

[my name was taken]

Not sure if it was the case, but if it's Zac Smith's free kick, why is Mackie taking the kick??? Or did Smith handball off to Mackie after the 50m?

Good point, fairly sure it was kicked from the set shot

Edit. Handpassed to mackie Before the 50 was paid. Also explains why it was such a long 50 as mackie had the ball in the middle when he paid the 50 when Joey ran past

 

[PoppedCorn]

65% game time when other mids are running around 80,
Jack steele is running at 20% more than dunstan.

Is he injured, does anyone watch him at games constantly??
Because on the tv I can remember seeing him twice, maybe three times....I then read he had 4 kicks, as a mid ffs.
Wtf is going on?
Something is way out of kilter here

 

[gringo2011]

Sorry Gringo, but that's just not our style. Your source may have added some mayo there.

This guy knows someone who works at the club and I doubt he made it up. It might be chinese whispers where a little bit of additional stuff gets added to it. Can Stavro or Moorabbin Ghost shed any light on it?

 

[Present Not Past]

I should clarify. I don't think adding more ruckmen into the starting 22 will increase clearances as they would be playing at the expense of a midfielder.

Wouldn't the 2nd specialist ruckman also be a forward?

 

[gringo2011]

But don't confuse pessimism with assessing "things that can go wrong". It often seems like even very large organizations ignore risks because everyone is on board the wagon. There is a massive difference between "that can never work" and " what if this happens".

I worked for a large company and this is definitely an issue, there are the sycophants who don't speak up when you can see a train wreck coming and there are the seriously self deluded that seem to not see any kind of potential risk despite it being obvious. You have the overly optimistic decision maker selling a dream and no one to pull the brakes on.

I see it like gambling, if you keep betting on the same horse that never wins and keep getting the same result at some point your optimism has to waver for preservation.

 

[pebblesofsand]

65% game time when other mids are running around 80,
Jack steele is running at 20% more than dunstan.

Is he injured, does anyone watch him at games constantly??
Because on the tv I can remember seeing him twice, maybe three times....I then read he had 4 kicks, as a mid ffs.
Wtf is going on?
Something is way out of kilter here

Either lowest or second lowest TOG of all players in 4 of the 5 games this season.

He's either being asked to do huge jobs none of us are aware of or its inside mid or the bench and I'm not sure if that's sustainable for a key midfielder these days.

If Koby is fit this week I really think Dunstan will be dropped and Stevens will end up playing 75/80% of game time.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Thanks for the heads up.
Sorry for not making it clearer but I was asking you a question about rotating the mids.
I'm not focused on whatever the rucks or anyone else are doing.
I don't care.
I'm asking about mids only.
I still do not understand this emphasis on TOG.

Three mid positions (ruck rover, rover and centre) plus one rotating through from elsewhere on the ground = four mids.
IF we have two mids on the pine that means a total of six mids and, everything else being equal, an average TOG of 67%.
If we have more mids rotating off the pine, like the four you were talking about, then the average TOG must be 50%.

Or if we have two rotating through from elsewhere on the ground (= five mids) plus two mids on the pine, that still means an average TOG of 70%.
If we have more mids rotating off the pine, like the four you were talking about, then the average TOG must be 55%

And compounding this: If there is a Dangerwood involved, they would have higher TOG so the others by definition must have lower TOG.

This is not rocket science, this is basic mathematics.

So why the melts about Dunstan's TOG?

If the rotation protocols are unknown (as would be here) then surely a player's TOG is not a reflection of their "tank", but simply a meaningless statistic and people who quote them are only revealing their ignorance?

And yet that's not what the actual TOGs are. Dunstan has the lowest TOG for our team for midf

Wouldn't the 2nd specialist ruckman also be a forward?

That's not what I got, but even if he is you'd then have to take out Bruce or McCartin. Or maybe Membrey and have 3 very tall forwards

 

[PoppedCorn]

Clint Jones output wouldve been better this year.

 

[sunny3193]

And yet that's not what the actual TOGs are. Dunstan has the lowest TOG for our team for midf

That's not what I got, but even if he is you'd then have to take out Bruce or McCartin. Or maybe Membrey and have 3 very tall forwards

Okay: explain to me what TOG's are, cause I'm not getting it.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Okay: explain to me what TOG's are, cause I'm not getting it.

TOG's = Time's on ground. As in plural for all our players.

 

[Present Not Past]

And yet that's not what the actual TOGs are. Dunstan has the lowest TOG for our team for midf

That's not what I got, but even if he is you'd then have to take out Bruce or McCartin. Or maybe Membrey and have 3 very tall forwards

That could work - not Membrey though.

 

[sunny3193]

Hickey gets more disposals than Dunstan, so there goes your theory...

And it's 5 mids rotating, not 4.

Yeh, I wasn't as clear in my question as I thought.
Not interested in rucks, that wasn't where I was heading.
I'm having difficulty understanding this whole TOG issue.
Especially wrt mids, and ultimately I suppose, the Dunstan melts.
I fail to see how TOG is a reflection of stamina when no one here knows what the rotation protocols are and, at the very least, where average TOG for a mid is around 60-70% anyway.

 

[cooperrules]

I should clarify. I don't think adding more ruckmen into the starting 22 will increase clearances as they would be playing at the expense of a midfielder.

What clearances

 

[Glen Buterol]

65% game time when other mids are running around 80,
Jack steele is running at 20% more than dunstan.

Is he injured, does anyone watch him at games constantly??
Because on the tv I can remember seeing him twice, maybe three times....I then read he had 4 kicks, as a mid ffs.
Wtf is going on?
Something is way out of kilter here

Apparently Dunstan is well endowed which may effect his running gait & explain his lack of agility & TOG stats....

 

[sunny3193]

TOG's = Time's on ground. As in plural for all our players.

Ok, different terminology but same acronym.
Get that.
But TOG is expressed as %?
That's not a measure of frequency, that's a proportional measurement.
TOG % which is what I'm asking about, and which is the figure reported in the media (eg: today's Age).

 

[gringo2011]

Apparently Dunstan is well endowed which may effect his running gait & explain his lack of agility & TOG stats....

I hate it when I step on my penis while running too

 

[Present Not Past]

Clint Jones output wouldve been better this year.

Who would you prefer in the team this year - Clinton the Dwarf Burner Jones or Joey?