Strategy Trade and List Management thread 4 (Be sure to huddle around your transitor radio at 11 am Edition)

[Mofra]

He's one dimensional. So he better be ******* good at that dimension otherwise what's the point. I'd rather a more complete player take his spot.

I think Boyd is well ahead of him based on both ability to ruck and the fact he actually brings the ball to ground, but the games where we don't have a Redpath, Boyd or Cloke in the side we have been diabolically bad - Stringer vs North as the lone 'tall' bad.

We need a tall player in our forwardline to drag at least one tall defender away from the high ball. Red leads hard and is a role player, no star, but the bad old days of a midget F50 are still fresh in my mind.
I love Zaine Cordy as a backman but he played as a no 2 defensive forward so is not an option IMO.
I like Adams in his glimpses forward but his body lets him down based on existing evidence.

Unless we magically trade for an established KPF we need to keep Red IMO, even ignoring most teammates consider him the "heart and soul of the changerooms".

 

[josh the gent]

I think Boyd is well ahead of him based on both ability to ruck and the fact he actually brings the ball to ground, but the games where we don't have a Redpath, Boyd or Cloke in the side we have been diabolically bad - Stringer vs North as the lone 'tall' bad.

We need a tall player in our forwardline to drag at least one tall defender away from the high ball. Red leads hard and is a role player, no star, but the bad old days of a midget F50 are still fresh in my mind.
I love Zaine Cordy as a backman but he played as a no 2 defensive forward so is not an option IMO.
I like Adams in his glimpses forward but his body lets him down based on existing evidence.

Unless we magically trade for an established KPF we need to keep Red IMO, even ignoring most teammates consider him the "heart and soul of the changerooms".

I reckon Red hurts our structure.

He can't be a second ruck, and isn't a big, drop it on his head forward... but he also can't put forward pressure on.

I think our structure should be 1 big forward, and 1 ruck, that can interchange positions through the match... and that's it!

The rest of the forward group must be natural forwards that are also very equipped at running, zoning, and pressuring.

A simple structure - but it's what is always in place when we look our best (2016 finals, rd 19 vs Essendon).

We actually have currently available pieces for that - Roughead, Cloke, and a variety of decent forwards (Stringer, Dickson, Clay, Dahlhaus).

I just don't see Red being effective in there, without hurting us defensively...

 

[immortalmike]

I think Boyd is well ahead of him based on both ability to ruck and the fact he actually brings the ball to ground, but the games where we don't have a Redpath, Boyd or Cloke in the side we have been diabolically bad - Stringer vs North as the lone 'tall' bad.

We need a tall player in our forwardline to drag at least one tall defender away from the high ball. Red leads hard and is a role player, no star, but the bad old days of a midget F50 are still fresh in my mind.
I love Zaine Cordy as a backman but he played as a no 2 defensive forward so is not an option IMO.
I like Adams in his glimpses forward but his body lets him down based on existing evidence.

Unless we magically trade for an established KPF we need to keep Red IMO, even ignoring most teammates consider him the "heart and soul of the changerooms".

That's a fair assessment.
But I'm of the opinion is that if there's something better out there we take it. He's not good enough and at his age and injury history he never will be.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I don't agree - Cloke will do the pack crashing work to bring the ball to ground, and is giving chop outs in the ruck. Crameri's role in 2015 was more akin to Dickson's - playing deep or high forward and taking a few turns at running higher up the ground. Not sure they can be directly compared.

Does he though? He doesn't seem to spend much time deep nor relieving in the ruck. To me, it would appear that he spends most of his time at chf working up and down the ground as a big link man. Something Crameri did much better.

 

[Mofra]

That's a fair assessment.
But I'm of the opinion is that if there's something better out there we take it. He's not good enough and at his age and injury history he never will be.

True - I'm not sure there is much out there though. We've traditionally either added names to our "talls of shame" list or gotten players past their best to fill a role for us (Hall and Cloke) or gone balls out to get someone - only once (Boyd) landing them.

 

[Mofra]

Does he though? He doesn't seem to spend much time deep nor relieving in the ruck. To me, it would appear that he spends most of his time at chf working up and down the ground as a big link man. Something Crameri did much better.

His goals last two weeks were from the pocket IIRC, and he was definitely the relieving ruck the last two weeks.

 

[immortalmike]

True - I'm not sure there is much out there though. We've traditionally either added names to our "talls of shame" list or gotten players past their best to fill a role for us (Hall and Cloke) or gone balls out to get someone - only once (Boyd) landing them.

I'd be very happy with a guy like Casboult.

 

[Mofra]

I'd be very happy with a guy like Casboult.

Me too - especially if we got the 2016 version who is a better kick for goal than most in our side (including Bont and Stringer if we're talking set shots).

 

[Dogsman16]

I'd be very happy with a guy like Casboult.

Happy to pay him 600k a season though?

 

[Yojimbo]

Forward Line Comparison, (Adelaide Vs Western Bulldogs)

Taylor Walker = Jack Redpath
Not that good in a pack situation, but good on the lead.
Good kicks over distance and in the open field.
Both defensive liabilities, but Walker masked by support cast.

Eddie Betts = Jake Stringer
Both stink of x-factor and can wow the fans with genius.
Betts works harder and has better awareness of team mates.
Sadly Betts is better in the air despite his size 175 cm.

Mitch McGovern = Liam Picken
Both great in the air with a slight edge to McGovern.
Both good pack marks with Picken having a speed advantage.
Both capable of being the decoy key man if needed.

Tom Lynch = Travis Cloke
Lynch is the better link man using space rather than marking.
Lynch better accumulator due to size and tank.
Lynch great at getting out to make space for his team mates.

Josh Jenkins = Tom Boyd
This is where it gets difficult as we cannot play all our talls
where as Adelaide can because of their ability to work as
one and create for each other. Sam Jacobs requires less of
a chop out in the ruck which benefits structure greatly.

Charlie Cameron = Tory Dickson
Tory is more of a small full forward while Cameron can take
it out to the wing and burn back into the forward fifty and
often does when the forward line is empty.

Feel free to insert other names and try to achieve the even
balance that is the envy of the competition, but it does
pay to remember that supply is the most important thing
when it comes to functionality, good supply that is.

 

[Gollo]

Can we just draft that small forward from the wafl who kicks goals for fun? Liam Ryan. Has 60 goals in 18 games this year.

Halve that number for a liberal estimate. No one with a 10.1 beep will be on the field for more than 60% of game time without being a defensive liability.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Unpopular view here but I was going to suggest him before I realised he was from Perth and not Victoria.

But jack darling would've been ideal to replace Crameri, besides his first season and when he played 15 games he has kicked 39 or more goals every season and has 38 this year, as a 2nd/3rd tall.

Being 25 he also would have fitted in with the young forward line moving forward stringer Boyd and Bont.

Imo this is the type of player we should if possible be looking at, someone about 24-26 that can take the pressure off stringer.

 

[mambavino]

Halve that number for a liberal estimate. No one with a 10.1 beep will be on the field for more than 60% of game time without being a defensive liability.

Just out of interest, because I've got no idea.
What is the average beep for an AFL small forward? Or where would he need to get to roughly?

 

[Gollo]

Just out of interest, because I've got no idea.
What is the average beep for an AFL small forward? Or where would he need to get to roughly?

Small forwards who work up the ground hard would, I suspect, be pushing around 14.1. Stay-at-home goalsneaks who provide forward pressure should be getting at least 12-12.5 when drafted. Stay-at-home goalsneaks who provide little defensive pressure are useless at AFL level, and are the type who may be getting down to around 11. A beep of 10.1 is just unsustainable for an AFL player.

 

[immortalmike]

Happy to pay him 600k a season though?

Yeah. With the new salary cap it's about average for the type of player he is.

 

[Bemoreboyddog]

Here's what I'd like this off season.

Forget Jake Lever. Great player, but costs a bundle. Get Jackson Trengove in as a free agent. He can pinch hit in rick and play defence. Would be like having two Jordan Rougheads.

Upside is Tom Boyd can then concentrate on being the Key Forward we all hope he can be. He can take contested grabs, bring the ball to deck and is one of our better shots on goal.

Next I'd be right into Kayle Kirby's ear. Yes, fitness issues, yes hasn't played an AFL game, but he's kicking regular small bags at VFL level. Something we could use. I'd cough up a !nd rounder happily for him.

Trade next years first rounder for a first this year. Hopefully having 2 picks inside top 15.

Pick a KPF and a mid with either some burst pace or a great kick. If possible both but that's a tall order.

Trade Red. Trade Crameri. Trade Webb.
Retire Murphy. Retire Boyd.
Delist Prudden. Delist Hamilton. Delist Honeychurch.

If Cloke is indicating he'll leave, keep Red. Not sure what to do with R. Smith or Lynch. Probably keep Lynch as a rookie and elevate Roarke I'd guess.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Unpopular view here but I was going to suggest him before I realised he was from Perth and not Victoria.

But jack darling would've been ideal to replace Crameri, besides his first season and when he played 15 games he has kicked 39 or more goals every season and has 38 this year, as a 2nd/3rd tall.

Being 25 he also would have fitted in with the young forward line moving forward stringer Boyd and Bont.

Imo this is the type of player we should if possible be looking at, someone about 24-26 that can take the pressure off stringer.

Lucky you said 'This type of player'...

 

[Easty]

Forget Jake Lever. Great player, but costs a bundle. Get Jackson Trengove in as a free agent. He can pinch hit in rick and play defence. Would be like having two Jordan Rougheads.

He's available on FA? If so I'll personally pick him up from the airport. Very underrated player.

 

[Dale4captain]

Clarke is going to be delisted from Freo. Expect some fleeting interest from us. Not a fan but oh well.

 

[doggiesin08]

Small forwards who work up the ground hard would, I suspect, be pushing around 14.1. Stay-at-home goalsneaks who provide forward pressure should be getting at least 12-12.5 when drafted. Stay-at-home goalsneaks who provide little defensive pressure are useless at AFL level, and are the type who may be getting down to around 11. A beep of 10.1 is just unsustainable for an AFL player.

What do we think Clay Smith is beeping these days.

 

[The Original Swooper]

Here's what I'd like this off season.

Forget Jake Lever. Great player, but costs a bundle. Get Jackson Trengove in as a free agent. He can pinch hit in rick and play defence. Would be like having two Jordan Rougheads.

Upside is Tom Boyd can then concentrate on being the Key Forward we all hope he can be. He can take contested grabs, bring the ball to deck and is one of our better shots on goal.

Next I'd be right into Kayle Kirby's ear. Yes, fitness issues, yes hasn't played an AFL game, but he's kicking regular small bags at VFL level. Something we could use. I'd cough up a !nd rounder happily for him.

Trade next years first rounder for a first this year. Hopefully having 2 picks inside top 15.

Pick a KPF and a mid with either some burst pace or a great kick. If possible both but that's a tall order.

Trade Red. Trade Crameri. Trade Webb.
Retire Murphy. Retire Boyd.
Delist Prudden. Delist Hamilton. Delist Honeychurch.

If Cloke is indicating he'll leave, keep Red. Not sure what to do with R. Smith or Lynch. Probably keep Lynch as a rookie and elevate Roarke I'd guess.

How does drafting a kid KPF and mid fix the NOW problems ? If as you suggest we rid ourselves of Cram and either Red or Cloke we have reduced bigger forward numbers and need to wait years for this new wonderkid to develop ? ( do you have any suggestions who this KPF kid would be at pick 10-18?). A Lever or a Trengove alleviates the existing shortage, adds flexibility to KPP's, and we keep 2018 picks as insurance. I've stated elsewhere why I think trading future picks is fraught with peril, and I'm dead set against it. I'm not sure there is anything in the TAC that could have short term benefit. With Wait and see scenarios surrounding English, Green & NMM I'd much prefer a couple of mature players filling the holes.

 

[Wizard17]

Clarke is going to be delisted from Freo. Expect some fleeting interest from us. Not a fan but oh well.

 

[Wizard17]

How does drafting a kid KPF and mid fix the NOW problems ? If as you suggest we rid ourselves of Cram and either Red or Cloke we have reduced bigger forward numbers and need to wait years for this new wonderkid to develop ? ( do you have any suggestions who this KPF kid would be at pick 10-18?). A Lever or a Trengove alleviates the existing shortage, adds flexibility to KPP's, and we keep 2018 picks as insurance. I've stated elsewhere why I think trading future picks is fraught with peril, and I'm dead set against it. I'm not sure there is anything in the TAC that could have short term benefit. With Wait and see scenarios surrounding English, Green & NMM I'd much prefer a couple of mature players filling the holes.

I'd have a look at Close, would come pretty cheaply.

Then we can still target a young KPF like Allen or Dixon in the draft.

 

[Doggies7]

Bailey Dale has re-signed till the end of 2019.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

Just out of interest, because I've got no idea.
What is the average beep for an AFL small forward? Or where would he need to get to roughly?

I actually thought the beep test was getting phased out due to inaccuracy. People slipping on the turns and ways of cheating it. The yoyo test has been ascertained as more reliable and is being used far more these days.