List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

[pie machine]

Our Pick 6 for Tigers 15 & 17. Draft Noah Balta and Ed Richards. Thoughts on this?

No thanks fogarty or brander at 6

 

[Unknown Identity]

Cats into Watts.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

There's a gaping difference in contracts unfortunately which makes Dal Santo's POV correct.

What does a contract have to do with being able to play 15 games?

(disclaimer, I didnt hear what Dal Santo said, only going by what I'm reading here)

 

[DaVe86]

I reckon the Bulldogs have done well with Trengove. He can slot in a variety of roles and pinch-hit in the ruck. Handy acquisition and suits their needs.

 

[Jafo]

In all fairness, the Crows have continued to lose quality players and remained a power.

His contract expires next year and I doubt it would be hard for Guy to lure him to the Pies and the Crows get nothing. Maybe it's in their best interests to get something for him now while they can?

Despite finishing Top, they can walk into this year's draft with picks 6 and 10. Wouldn't be bad.

I am still wondering if there would be a conflict of interest and or other clubs contesting Guy if he influenced his players to come to Collingwood whilst at Collingwood.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Cats into Watts.

Not sure hes a good fit there. They do need forwards but is Watts the answer? Hes not really a stay at home forward.

Sounds to me that Blicavs is on the nose at Geelong, he and Watts play similar roles.

Geelong really need a proper rebuild. Finishing top four was probably a bad thing for them as it has given them false hope and they are overrating their flag chances.

 

[DaVe86]

I think a Contract is more valuable to a player than a club.

For a player, it guarantees income. If they are traded or injured, then someone is still going to have to pay their wage.

From a club point of view, having a player contracted really doesn't provide much security anymore other than giving them some control at the trade table.

I suppose the contract is an incentive clubs can offer to players to retain their services. Most players prefer a longer term contract because it offers longer term security in regards to income. If one club offers a 3 year tenure and another offers a 5, most players would take the 5.

 

[MagpieBat]

Cats into Watts.

Source...?

 

[SpongePie]

Source...?

I saw it on facebook, not that it means anything.

 

[DaVe86]

Not sure hes a good fit there. They do need forwards but is Watts the answer? Hes not really a stay at home forward.

Sounds to me that Blicavs is on the nose at Geelong, he and Watts play similar roles.

Geelong really need a proper rebuild. Finishing top four was probably a bad thing for them as it has given them false hope and they are overrating their flag chances.

I actually think he is a perfect fit at Geelong. I think he works best when he has a power marking forward beside him (because Watts isn't one himself). Hawkins can do the grunt work, while Watts can do the finishing.

I'm actually not sure if he is a good fit at Collingwood because Darcy Moore isn't really a 'Power Forward' yet. He might develop into one, but for now he is more an athletic type.

I just don't know how Geelong can keep bringing these players in. They are supposedly still pushing for Stringer, as well as Ablett.

 

[Scodog10]

What does a contract have to do with being able to play 15 games?

(disclaimer, I didnt hear what Dal Santo said, only going by what I'm reading here)

I'll stress that too.

The contract has everything to do with it. A three year deal @ circa $500k pa for a guy that is 32 when he signs it is a huge risk. It's the exact reason the cap is tight and we're restricted on deals this year. Whereas Hodge will be lucky to be on a quarter of that at Brisbane.

I feel for Buckley in one sense because his hands were no doubt tied on it and the fault lies at the feet of Gubby, but the comments were as silly as the "mix up" one.

FWIW I like Wells, a lot, but if his ceiling is 40 games for us (at best it's now probably 50) the investment is a bad one.

 

[unplugged]

I think a Contract is more valuable to a player than a club.

For a player, it guarantees income. If they are traded or injured, then someone is still going to have to pay their wage.

From a club point of view, having a player contracted really doesn't provide much security anymore other than giving them some control at the trade table.

I suppose the contract is an incentive clubs can offer to players to retain their services. Most players prefer a longer term contract because it offers longer term security in regards to income. If one club offers a 3 year tenure and another offers a 5, most players would take the 5.

Yeah, as Pendlebury said a year or two ago, they're great for home loans and not much else.

Although, as you alluded to, it gives list managers some leverage in that they can say "come up with an equitable trade or else he'll stay" like we did with Beams, and as Gold Coast are threatening to do with Gaz.

 

[CFC2010]

I'll stress that too.

The contract has everything to do with it. A three year deal @ circa $500k pa for a guy that is 32 when he signs it is a huge risk. It's the exact reason the cap is tight and we're restricted on deals this year. Whereas Hodge will be lucky to be on a quarter of that at Brisbane.

I feel for Buckley in one sense because his hands were no doubt tied on it and the fault lies at the feet of Gubby, but the comments were as silly as the "mix up" one.

FWIW I like Wells, a lot, but if his ceiling is 40 games for us (at best it's now probably 50) the investment is a bad one.

Not that it matters Sco but I think Hodge was offered big $ to go to Brisbane.

Just my opinion after listening to the Clarko and Hodge interviews.

 

[MayneSpudHunter]

What happened with the Daniel Menzel talk. I would prefer him over Jack Watts, we would get him without giving up any picks and does have a clean set shot

 

[DaVe86]

Yeah, as Pendlebury said a year or two ago, they're great for home loans and not much else.

Although, as you alluded to, it gives list managers some leverage in that they can say "come up with an equitable trade or else he'll stay" like we did with Beams, and as Gold Coast are threatening to do with Gaz.

I thnk that comment from pendlebury is a gross exaggeration.

At the end of the day, it is a legal binding document which either party can enforce. So both players and clubs need to manage how they terminate the contracts.

At the end of the day, having a contract guarantees that a player will receive income for the duration of the contract, and the terms of his bonuses etc. It also guarantees a club compensation by way of trade if a player elects to walk out, or gives the club the power to hold the player to the contract.

Contracts can also have trigger clauses etc (ie play more than certain amount of games to earn a bonus), so a club can set some safety nets if players don't live up to their side of the bargain...and they would all have 'get-out' clauses if a player breaches his duties.

At the end of the day, contracts in any walk of life are merely terms on a piece of paper. If both parties to the contract mutually agree to terminate, then the Contract is irrelevant. That goes with all contracts in any walk of life.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Source...?

My source! Mate with connections at the Cattery.

 

[Apex36]

What does a contract have to do with being able to play 15 games?

(disclaimer, I didnt hear what Dal Santo said, only going by what I'm reading here)

Because only expecting 15 games from a guy on $600k is far different than only expecting 15 games from a guy on 250-300k

 

[Scodog10]

Not that it matters Sco but I think Hodge was offered big $ to go to Brisbane.

Just my opinion after listening to the Clarko and Hodge interviews.

You reckon? It doesn't make the situation around Wells anymore palatable, but I'd be shocked if Hodge were to get more than $400k in 2018.

If he were there's every chance it relates to them hitting their salary floor with Rockliff gone.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Because only expecting 15 games from a guy on $600k is far different than only expecting 15 games from a guy on 250-300k

That’s pretty simplistic.

 

[Lefthanded]

Only reason we would keep pick 6 is to draft Coffield or maybe Brander. Especially because Bonar, Balta and Richards are expected to go pick 15+.

I believe if we have 3 picks within the top 25, we are a good chance at landing all 3. Hopefully.

I'd be happy with Brander & Richards but have my doubts about Coffield & Bonar.
Coffield - too short for key position and with Howe, Shaz, Langdon would we have too many medium height guys in our backline? (Or if using him in midfield we already have too many guys there unless they are the heir apparent to Wells but without the fitness issues).
Bonar - I believe is predominantly inside mid and has had ACL issues so unless it's a pick at 30+ I'd have other priorities.

Hard to get Brander and someone else so my best case return at moment if we downgrade our pick 6 to two in the teens involves two of guys like Balta, Richards and O'Brien (maybe Petruccelle depending on whether he's more an inside mid per afl draft central or half back /fwd per Cal Toomey)

I'd then be looking for guys like Naughton, Petty if they slide to our pick 36, especially if we miss Balta.

 

[MagpieBat]

My source! Mate with connections at the Cattery.

Intriguing...

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Given wells quality when on the park I maintain it was and is worth the risk.

As for hodge, good on him, who cares really. No issues with him playing as long as he can get away with it

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

I nearly ran off the road listening to Pendles on SEN just before.
Everyone should put their house on the Pies to win the Premiership in 2018 because this pre-season we are going to be doing something very innovative.


Wait for it...............










We are going to train with footballs in our hands!!!!!!

This review rocks and anyone questioning it should be named and shamed.

Back on topic

He also said he has no idea about our trade targets but he then added we needed a quick small forward.

CFC, the footy in the hands comment is an interesting one and not as silly as it may sound.
Sport science has its place in footy however over the whole competition, it has turned training into a very clinical process and has somewhat sucked the 'footy club' soul out of some clubs. Add to that the extra meetings, leadership programs, social issues education programs etc, it's no wonder that the likes of Cloke and Seedsman talk about their new clubs as "feeling like a footy club" in comparison to Collingwood. The Dogs and Adelaide got back their footy soul, we need to find ours.

Back to the footy in the hands thing. The aerobic fitness element has worked its way down to local clubs where the footies are rare during early preseason before Christmas and for a couple weeks or more when training resumes in the new year. I've listened to coaches talk about fitness being the key to getting through the last quarter and then watched the team proceed to chase wayward kicks and handballs from teammmates. This is while the supposedly unfit side has kicked 5 goals purely by being able to hit targets and expend less energy chasing helicopter kicks and errant handballs.

These sports scientists at Collingwood need to be made to earn their money by devising fitness programs etc that involve more ofthe one thing players want when the cross the white line, the f@&ing BALL!.

Perhaps Pendles was referring to just one way for Collingwood to get back its footy club soul.

 

[Old Spice]

Not that it matters Sco but I think Hodge was offered big $ to go to Brisbane.

Just my opinion after listening to the Clarko and Hodge interviews.

Yes, it seems doubtful to me he's going up there for charitable reasons. If doing it as entree to coaching, can do it on good coin.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I think the major point for the whole Wright-De GOEY debate is the fact that Above average/elite KPF rarely ever change clubs.

Top of my head....

Past 5 years: Buddy, Dixon and Tom Boyd.

I can't really think of anyone else, there might be a few more.

However, midfielders get traded every year.

Past 5 years: Treolar, Prestia, Dangerfield, Rockliff, Wells, Ablett, JOM, T.Mitchell, J.Lewis. I'm sure there's plenty more.

The point being it's EASIER to recruit an above average midfielder than it is to recruit an above average forward.

The problem is these days KPFs are less important than they once were. Leigh Matthews recently came out and said that KPFs are no longer the most important type of players to have on your list. The most important are midfielders who can play forward. So think Dangerfield & Martin, where they dominate in the middle but can still kick 30-40 goals a year (what a lot of the KPFs are doing anyway). He is right, and the game is going to continue to head in that direction with the way it is played i.e not much one on one contesting.

At the end of the day the only guy that looks likely to be able to fill the brief of being that mid/fwd is Jordan DeGoey.