Top 10 forwards you've seen

[Knox Harrington]

It says greatest you have seen and i have been watching from 1984 onwards so here goes (in no particular order)
1. Carey - matchwinner, leader, tough etc 2.7 goals a game at CHF in strong teams with other great goal scorers
2. Ablett - ridiculous talent and could do it all 4.2 goals a game
3. Lloyd - the last of the great old school full forwards averaged 3.4 goals a game. would have topped 1,000 were it not for injury and Matthew effing Knights.
4. Lockett - averaged 4.8 goals in some great Sydney sides and some ordinary saints sides. Great old school full forward.
5. Dunstall - averaged 4.7 goals a game in some great Hawks sides. Harder working than most other full forwards of his time.
6. Brereton - the best CHF in the land when CHF was "the hardest position on the ground" - the ultimate big game player and averaged 2.2 goals a game. See his performance in 1985 grand final kicked 8 when his side got smashed. Would have been a great full forward were it not for dunstall.
7. Franklin - Averages 3.2 a game when 60 is winning colemans. A freak, nothing more and nothing less.
8. J. Brown - 2.3 goals a game. CHF in the greatest 3 peat side of all time. Another tough big game player.
9. Betts - Best small forward i have seen - was a really tough choice between him and Milne. Betts just shades him. Just
10. Kernahan. 2.9 goals a game a lot of it at CHF. 12 seasons 10 of which got over goals. Ultra consistent. What a beautiful mark and hairdo.

This is over the last 30 years and gee whiz it isnt easy.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

FF: Plugger, Dunstall and GAblett... then daylight to some very good full forwards e.g. Lloyd, Fev, Modra...

HF: Carey, Franklin, Riewoldt, Pav, Sticks and Brereton

SF: Daics, Betts, Milne, LeCras, Jarman (played more forward than in the middle during his career) and Cyril

 

[_Mike_]

Ablett so low?? Below Modra??

There was no mention in the OP that you had to order them, which my list was just my top 10 in no particular order. So perhaps I should have made that clearer on my part. No confusion was intended in my post.

 

[nut]

There was no mention in the OP that you had to order them, which my list was just my top 10 in no particular order. So perhaps I should have made that clearer on my part. No confusion was intended in my post.

Apologies

 

[Bardo State]

Should qualify those averages with context of size of clubs in league for each player at time of their career. I dare say when there are 12 clubs in the league in a player's career versus another guy from another era with 16 to 18 clubs in the league, he might find it harder attracting as high an average as a guy in a time of league where talent spread more thin in each game across 9 games in league.

It's an interesting conversation. Fewer clubs in the past but also a smaller population to pull from and no national competition.

 

[footyfan1978]

It's an interesting conversation. Fewer clubs in the past but also a smaller population to pull from and no national competition.

Yes, something a lot of people never even think about when comparing players from different eras and how Brownlow votes distributed out. Quite a few variables in it.

 

[Gone Critical]

Hudson
Carey
Lockett
Hart
Dunstall
GAS
Jezza
Modra
Quinlan
Buddy

Honourable Mentions
Wade
Lloyd
Templeton
Daicos
McKenna
Kernahan
Riewoldt
Brown
Betts
Tredrae
Brereton
Richardson
Pavlich

This came off the top of my head without reading the thread so I bet I missed someone. Seen a lot of. Grea one.

 

[Gone Critical]

Hart
Lockett
Dunstall
Budwah
Richo
Carey
Ablett Snr
Hudson
McKenna
Lloyd

Apoligies to
Jesalenko
Roach
Blight
Knights

??Knights

 

[Flea2Superboot]

I watched a lot of Quinlan as a young Fitzroy fan, too young to remember Blight playing really. Those that objectively remember both, what are your thoughts on who’d be the better player?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Ablett
Carey
Lockett
Dunstal are the standout key forwards i've seen.

Daicos
Milne
Betts
Stevie J
Didak are the best non KFs.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I watched a lot of Quinlan as a young Fitzroy fan, too young to remember Blight playing really. Those that objectively remember both, what are your thoughts on who’d be the better player?

Can't recall Quinlan at Footscray. My memory is that Quinlan was the more consistent and conventional player, Blight was the one you feared more because he could rip a game away with a burst of brilliance. Although Quinlan was quite mobile, he was a specialist forward in my time of watching, whereas Blight for much of his career was a ruck rover who was dangerous around goal, and only became a permanent forward later. From a spectator's perspective I give the points to Blight, although their statistical outputs are similar.

 

[Blind Turn]

1/ Ablett Sr
2/ Carey
3/ Matthews
4/ Lockett
5/ Dunstall
6/ Franklin
7/ Blight
8/ Quinlan
9/ Daicos
10/ Kernahan

Next - Brereton, Riewoldt, Lloyd, Pavlich, Bartlett, Tredrea

 

[Frank Gallagher]

It says greatest you have seen and i have been watching from 1984 onwards so here goes (in no particular order)
1. Carey - matchwinner, leader, tough etc 2.7 goals a game at CHF in strong teams with other great goal scorers
2. Ablett - ridiculous talent and could do it all 4.2 goals a game
3. Lloyd - the last of the great old school full forwards averaged 3.4 goals a game. would have topped 1,000 were it not for injury and Matthew effing Knights.
4. Lockett - averaged 4.8 goals in some great Sydney sides and some ordinary saints sides. Great old school full forward.
5. Dunstall - averaged 4.7 goals a game in some great Hawks sides. Harder working than most other full forwards of his time.
6. Brereton - the best CHF in the land when CHF was "the hardest position on the ground" - the ultimate big game player and averaged 2.2 goals a game. See his performance in 1985 grand final kicked 8 when his side got smashed. Would have been a great full forward were it not for dunstall.
7. Franklin - Averages 3.2 a game when 60 is winning colemans. A freak, nothing more and nothing less.
8. J. Brown - 2.3 goals a game. CHF in the greatest 3 peat side of all time. Another tough big game player.
9. Betts - Best small forward i have seen - was a really tough choice between him and Milne. Betts just shades him. Just
10. Kernahan. 2.9 goals a game a lot of it at CHF. 12 seasons 10 of which got over goals. Ultra consistent. What a beautiful mark and hairdo.

This is over the last 30 years and gee whiz it isnt easy.

Milne and Betts over Daicos? I think Betts will be in the discussion when he retires but Milne is a full rung down on those 2 IMO, but those 3 are the best 3 i've seen.

 

[Bollox]

Milne and Betts over Daicos? I think Betts will be in the discussion when he retires but Milne is a full rung down on those 2 IMO, but those 3 are the best 3 i've seen.

Inclined to agree, but its not controversial at all. Its hard to split them when u take out the love/hate factor. I couldnt ever say one was a full rung below the others. Got 30 mins to kill before heading out so i can see this turning into a stupid ramble needing a serious fact check

Daicos had a LOT of 10-20 goal type seasons due to playing upfield more, with only 3-4 seasons (???) of what u might call "magnificent seasons for a small fwd"....and so far Betts has been a tale of two halves. Average for first half of his career, then exceptional for the second half. By contrast Milne kicked 50+ in just his second season and had shitloads of those types of numbers from 45-60ish goals. It took Betts 6-7 seasons to get near that level i reckon. There are arguments all over the place. Milne was incredibly consistent. Not being injury prone is just as important as anything.

That old coaching wish list of "2 goals a game" from a fwd pkt still holds true. It is huge for any team.
In another thread i was surprised to see Betts has only had (???) 6 seasons at around that 45+ (2 gls a game) ??....with a cpl of those being around 60-70, but Milne had something like 8-9 seasons like that without the odd 60-70 gl seasons that Betts has done lately. A bad season for Milne was still pretty damn handy at maybe 30 goals a season. You can argue Daicos had that magic run from 1990-92 including one huge season...but in the previous 6-7 seasons he wouldnt have kicked more than maybe 20-25 a season (???). Sure he may have played more upfield than Milne or Betts, but we're ranking them as forwards right ?

The argument i take against Milne is that he was a construct rather than a talent like Daicos.
Riewoldt made Milne. Lesser extent Gehrig, but would Milne even exist in our memory banks without Riewoldt ?
Milne might be dumb as a box of hammers, but he learnt very fast on the job. He saw very early that their CHF was the bloke to sniff around to make up for indivdual lack of talent....Riewoldt was a brilliant pack crasher when he couldnt mark it...and getting to an extreme number of contests as a KPF means more opportunities, crumbs and always more goals.
I reckon 100+ goals (maybe 3 times that, who knows) of Milne's career could be switched from Milne's column to Riewoldt. So much of Milne's highlight package contains Riewoldt. Hellova combination.

That KPF effect on small fwd careers is also obvious when you look at Phil Matera. The guy was a dangerous small fwd and regular match winner around that late 90's to mid 2000's. He's a small fwd that few seem to even mention these days...but with better/consistent KPF's and a longer career his rating might be right up there with Milne/Betts etc. Underrated career as it stands coz always unfashionable. Perhaps more 50+ type seasons than Betts even ??? Just a guess., might be way wrong about that.

Neither Daicos nor Betts had that consistent luxury that Milne fed off. In patches maybe...but in general they had to rely on making more of their own opportunities. Better footballers with actual talent. Talent level Milne not even in the same ballpark. Betts though...we're really talking only from about 2011-2012(ish) onwards....before then 6 or more seasons without many highlights ???
Arguments for all of them.

Leigh Matthews blows them all away. He could easily have a 50+ goal season playing thru the middle with just the odd rest in the pkt.

 

[footyfan1978]

I watched a lot of Quinlan as a young Fitzroy fan, too young to remember Blight playing really. Those that objectively remember both, what are your thoughts on who’d be the better player?

Blight the better player. Quinlan the better kick.
Blight like Jezza and Ablett just as likely to take mark of the week as goal of the week.

 

[footyfan1978]

1/ Ablett Sr
2/ Carey
3/ Matthews
4/ Lockett
5/ Dunstall
6/ Franklin
7/ Blight
8/ Quinlan
9/ Daicos
10/ Kernahan

Next - Brereton, Riewoldt, Lloyd, Pavlich, Tredrea

One of the better attempts so far but would have Bartlett ahead of Quinlan.

 

[Bombermania]

Top 10 forwards I've actually seen rather than just watched on the TV

1) J. Dunstall
2) T. Lockett
3) B. Franklin
4) G. Ablett Snr
5) J. Hird
6) M. Lloyd
7) S. Kernahan
8) J. Brown
9) W. Carey
10) S. Lucus

HM to N.Riewoldt, D.Neitz, G.Lyon, D.Brereton, B.Taylor, P.Daicos, M. Richardson, E.Betts, P.Salmon, B.Quinlan, A.Lynch.

There are some great forwards like L.Matthews, S.Beasley, & K.Bartlett that I only saw on T.V

 

[Ron The Bear]

Don't think KB belongs in this discussion. Moved to the flank in 1980 at 33yo and had three very good seasons there before finishing 1983 on and off the bench. Yeah he kicked a lot of goals, but the bulk of his career was played on the ball. Less of a true forward than even Matthews or Jarman, and I don't class them as forwards. Bartlett was an attacking player who was able to get to contest after contest, especially in the forward line.

 

[Bombermania]

Don't think KB belongs in this discussion. Moved to the flank in 1980 at 33yo and had three very good seasons there before finishing 1983 on and off the bench. Yeah he kicked a lot of goals, but the bulk of his career was played on the ball. Less of a true forward than even Matthews or Jarman, and I don't class them as forwards. Bartlett was an attacking player who was able to get to contest after contest, especially in the forward line.

I think that could apply to several others as well like Daicos and even Betts who has only really taken his game to star level since leaving Carlton, there is a fine line between a small forward verses a mid who goes forward and kicks the big goal everyone remembers which is why its a tricky list to write.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I think that could apply to several others as well like Daicos and even Betts who has only really taken his game to star level since leaving Carlton, there is a fine line between a small forward verses a mid who goes forward and kicks the big goal everyone remembers which is why its a tricky list to write.

Daicos had the capacity to play as a midfielder and played some of his early football in the centre, but most of it was as a goalkicking forward. I don't regard him as anything but a forward.

 

[Blind Turn]

One of the better attempts so far but would have Bartlett ahead of Quinlan.

Actually forgot to put Bartlett in the group I've got under 'next'. I saw KB at the end of his career from 1980 and I rate him very highly from what I saw (including the 1980 GF). But from my perspective, in the time I've watched, there are about 14 players I'd rate ahead of him as forwards, including Quinlan. Bernie was an absolutely dominant forward and I rate him higher than the clever, sneaky forward that I remember KB being.

 

[footyfan1978]

Don't think KB belongs in this discussion.

Depends when you started watching. If you like me and started from 1978, I only known KB as a forward so in a thread titled "top 10 forwards you've seen" he is absolutely in this discussion for me. Similarly Lethal Leigh.
Never seen such dangerous small forwards in rest of time I been watching. Maybe Daicos close and Adrian McAdam for a short burst but they were genuinely the most damaging players those teams had in late 70's and early 80's for Tigers and Hawks.

 

[footyfan1978]

Actually forgot to put Bartlett in the group I've got under 'next'. I saw KB at the end of his career from 1980 and I rate him very highly from what I saw (including the 1980 GF). But from my perspective, in the time I've watched, there are about 14 players I'd rate ahead of him as forwards, including Quinlan. Bernie was an absolutely dominant forward and I rate him higher than the clever, sneaky forward that I remember KB being.

Interesting. Did not have Quinlan in my top ten.

Lockett
Gary Ablett
Leigh Matthews
Bartlett
Blight
Carey
Daicos
Kernahan
Dunstall
Franklin

Apologies to Matthew Lloyd, Bernie Quinlan, Fevola, Templeton (knee ruined him), Salmon, Allen Jakovich, Modra, Bosustow, Adrian McAdam, Richard Osborne and Eddie Betts

Ironically, unlike Bartlett, I still saw him as a big bodied midfielder for well over half the time I watched his career and only in last few did I see him positioned as a full forward. I think he won his Brownlow as a midfielder.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Inclined to agree, but its not controversial at all. Its hard to split them when u take out the love/hate factor. I couldnt ever say one was a full rung below the others. Got 30 mins to kill before heading out so i can see this turning into a stupid ramble needing a serious fact check

Daicos had a LOT of 10-20 goal type seasons due to playing upfield more, with only 3-4 seasons (???) of what u might call "magnificent seasons for a small fwd"....and so far Betts has been a tale of two halves. Average for first half of his career, then exceptional for the second half. By contrast Milne kicked 50+ in just his second season and had shitloads of those types of numbers from 45-60ish goals. It took Betts 6-7 seasons to get near that level i reckon. There are arguments all over the place. Milne was incredibly consistent. Not being injury prone is just as important as anything.

That old coaching wish list of "2 goals a game" from a fwd pkt still holds true. It is huge for any team.
In another thread i was surprised to see Betts has only had (???) 6 seasons at around that 45+ (2 gls a game) ??....with a cpl of those being around 60-70, but Milne had something like 8-9 seasons like that without the odd 60-70 gl seasons that Betts has done lately. A bad season for Milne was still pretty damn handy at maybe 30 goals a season. You can argue Daicos had that magic run from 1990-92 including one huge season...but in the previous 6-7 seasons he wouldnt have kicked more than maybe 20-25 a season (???). Sure he may have played more upfield than Milne or Betts, but we're ranking them as forwards right ?

The argument i take against Milne is that he was a construct rather than a talent like Daicos.
Riewoldt made Milne. Lesser extent Gehrig, but would Milne even exist in our memory banks without Riewoldt ?
Milne might be dumb as a box of hammers, but he learnt very fast on the job. He saw very early that their CHF was the bloke to sniff around to make up for indivdual lack of talent....Riewoldt was a brilliant pack crasher when he couldnt mark it...and getting to an extreme number of contests as a KPF means more opportunities, crumbs and always more goals.
I reckon 100+ goals (maybe 3 times that, who knows) of Milne's career could be switched from Milne's column to Riewoldt. So much of Milne's highlight package contains Riewoldt. Hellova combination.

That KPF effect on small fwd careers is also obvious when you look at Phil Matera. The guy was a dangerous small fwd and regular match winner around that late 90's to mid 2000's. He's a small fwd that few seem to even mention these days...but with better/consistent KPF's and a longer career his rating might be right up there with Milne/Betts etc. Underrated career as it stands coz always unfashionable. Perhaps more 50+ type seasons than Betts even ??? Just a guess., might be way wrong about that.

Neither Daicos nor Betts had that consistent luxury that Milne fed off. In patches maybe...but in general they had to rely on making more of their own opportunities. Better footballers with actual talent. Talent level Milne not even in the same ballpark. Betts though...we're really talking only from about 2011-2012(ish) onwards....before then 6 or more seasons without many highlights ???
Arguments for all of them.

Leigh Matthews blows them all away. He could easily have a 50+ goal season playing thru the middle with just the odd rest in the pkt.

Daicos did it at the start and the end of his career, kicked 73 goals as a 20 year old and pinched hit in the midfield, kicked 60+ the next season, then the injuries hit and hit hard, career was a right off for the next 5-6 years until Matthews took over as coach, Matthews told him his days were numbered as a centreman and if wanted go keep going he should try as a permanent forward, the rest is history.

 

[PowerForGood]

Tredrea was and is criminally underrated. 4x AA CHF (in a row) between 2001-4, should have been 2005 as well but that's an argument for a different thread. AFLCA player of the year 2004, Premiership Captain, 4x BnF, 8x PA Leading Goal kicker. He was cut down with injury yes, but that 5 year period when he was at the top of his game was as devastating as any forwards in the past 30 years. It would be interesting to see where he was placed if Williams didn't get the head coaching role and he moved to Carlton in 1999.

Unfortunately he's always going to be marked down against players like Brown (because premierships) and any Vic forward (because not Victorian)
Those 5 years between 2001 and 2005 - a joy to watch though. 60 goals, 100 inside 50's, 200 marks and 400 possessions a year for a key forward - and such a presence on the field.
And as for Carlton, this is why they were so keen on him in 1999.
https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1998/031319980509.html.

When a player as a 19yo can kick 8.4 with 17 marks in just 3 quarters (before doing a knee cap injury) in your 8th game of top-level footy - one of my favourite all time memories seen live.