Society/Culture Nobody has anything new to say about God.

[Procrastinator35]

Anyone else getting tired of reading responses from people standing on the backs of religious culture insisting that they have no need for it? Getting tired of reading responses from atheists insisting on moral imperatives when their very worldview allows for no such thing? How about the dronish insistence that their position is TRUE, when that worldview also does not afford any accomodation for an ultimate standard of truth? Its the constant borrowing from other worldviews and passing it off as their own that I for one get tired of reading. As I have said many times before it is impossible for an atheist to live and function if they consistently followed their atheism to its logical ends, they would be the most miserable suicidal people on earth if they did. This debate just goes around and around in circles because of assumptions and borrowing from other worldviews. It can never progress as long as that happens.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Orphans are oftentimes the saddest people on God's green earth.....I don't know why one would choose Cosmic orphanhood....Other than out of pure sadism.

Before 911 occured a group called the Project for a New American Century consisting of the Neocons who came in with Bush published a list of countries they wanted to take out in the middle east - Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran and others. They also said they would need a "new pearl harbor type event" to justify doing it all. Funny huh. Must have had a crystal ball or something. Anyway, thats irrelevant atm.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yeah, old PNAC.....and the even more hilarious thing is how the Patriot Act was drafted 2 years before 9/11 even occurred.....Journo's simply don't ask any questions any more.

 

[M Malice]

Oh?....But doesn't the Bible State that God fashioned man from the earth?....That Adam is made from the Clay.....Is that nothing?

When you think of the word human, it derives it's etymology from the word humus....Which is the organic soil layer of the earth....So knowing our correct place in the overall scheme of things, makes us humble & gives us humility, by recognising our origin & from whence we sprang.....Ergo Earthlings.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

I really liked that post P35, as I've said before I'm open to the possibility of a yet unproven connection between man and the rest of the natural world, the idea that I have got zero time for is the notion of the existence of an interventionist, judgmental, omnipresent creator who provides a residence for our "soul" upon death.

The bible/koran are worthwhile pieces of literature for study although IMO it's not a book of fact merely an attempt from the elite ie. church/state of the time to assert control and domination over the plebs.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I really liked that post P35, as I've said before I'm open to the possibility of a yet unproven connection between man and the rest of the natural world, the idea that I have got zero time for is the notion of the existence of an interventionist, judgmental, omnipresent creator who provides a residence for our "soul" upon death.

The bible/koran are worthwhile pieces of literature for study although IMO it's not a book of fact merely an attempt from the elite ie. church/state of the time to assert control and domination over the plebs.

Yeah....I've got no truck against that premise......Though there are some hundreds of generations of wisdom entailed therein, nonetheless. In spite of the clear & present power trope.

I like what the French Encyclopaedist Denis Diderot, said to his then mistress Sophie Voland in a letter, when in the midst of compiling the very first tome.

"I am trapped in a devil of a philosophy (atheism) that my mind cannot help but accept, but which my heart cannot help but reject."

To my way of thinking, at least, it is only when our heart & mind are integrated into a psychic whole, that the divine enters.....This to me is the sate of ecstatic vision that is both characteristic & reminiscent of childhood....And it is an existential state that is very difficult to recapture from the point of the fall on (Teenage-years).

Though the lessons of the Saints still tells us that redemption is indeed still possible.....It's all a part of the human journey.

 

[M Malice]

Yeah....I've got no truck against that premise......Though there are some hundreds of generations of wisdom entailed therein, nonetheless. In spite of the clear & present power trope.

I like what the French Encyclopaedist Denis Diderot, said to his then mistress Sophie Voland in a letter, when in the midst of compiling the very first tome.

"I am trapped in a devil of a philosophy (atheism) that my mind cannot help but accept, but which my heart cannot help but reject."

To my way of thinking, at least, it is only when our heart & mind are integrated into a psychic whole, that the divine enters.....This to me is the sate of ecstatic vision that is both characteristic & reminiscent of childhood....And it is an existential state that is very difficult to recapture from the point of the fall on (Teenage-years).

Though the lessons of the Saints still tells us that redemption is indeed still possible.....It's all a part of the human journey.

I'll have to google Denis Diderot, never heard of him.

The unbridled enthusiasm, curiosity, acceptance and innocence of young children is magnificence at its best.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I'll have to google Denis Diderot, never heard of him.

The unbridled enthusiasm, curiosity, acceptance and innocence of young children is magnificence at its best.

One of the leading French Enlightenment philosophers.....And a very interesting character.

 

[Boston tiger]

Having just been there recently,they aren’t religious one iota,they respect the history.
They’re atheist.

I lived there for 3 years . Very easy going about Religion and pick and choose which one suits. Shinto for all the baby and kids ceremonies.
Buddhist for the funeral.
Christian for marriage is popular You can get a real nice paying job as a fake priest for weddings. The more bishop looking the better.

Burying someone is a big money spinner for the Buddhist priest.
the 1st year Obon (Festival of the Dead) service is often considered important and memorial services are held at the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 13th-years and in other years depending on the sect and the desires of the survivors up to the 50th year.

They remind me of cradle Catholics. Go through the motions and rigmarole with out giving it much thought.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Anyone else getting tired of reading responses from people standing on the backs of religious culture insisting that they have no need for it? Getting tired of reading responses from atheists insisting on moral imperatives when their very worldview allows for no such thing? How about the dronish insistence that their position is TRUE, when that worldview also does not afford any accomodation for an ultimate standard of truth? Its the constant borrowing from other worldviews and passing it off as their own that I for one get tired of reading. As I have said many times before it is impossible for an atheist to live and function if they consistently followed their atheism to its logical ends, they would be the most miserable suicidal people on earth if they did. This debate just goes around and around in circles because of assumptions and borrowing from other worldviews. It can never progress as long as that happens.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Oh you poor dear. It must be so ghastly for you going through life thinking of atheists as the bad people.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Oh you poor dear. It must be so ghastly for you going through life thinking of atheists as the bad people.

Not bad as such.....Just ignorant, one-dimensional & unenlightened.....The Fall children, lost in the cave of ego delusion.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Not bad as such.....Just ignorant, one-dimensional & unenlightened.....The Fall children, lost in the cave of ego delusion.

The absolute opposite is true no matter how many times you wish to repeat it in your head or on here.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The absolute opposite is true no matter how many times you wish to repeat it in your head or on here.

Yep, yep....Too bad you remain ignorant of both those 2 terms TRUE meaning, when it comes to man & religion.

You remain entrapped in the reactive stages of an anti-establishment, anti-authoritarian revolt.....You'll return home soon enough, to discover you've thrown the baby out with the bath-water.....And all these years spent in exile & in protest, will have been wasted energy.

 

[Admiral Byng]

Not bad as such.....Just ignorant, one-dimensional & unenlightened.....The Fall children, lost in the cave of ego delusion.

Outside the cave mate, outside the cave. I have lived in both worlds. Once your eyes adjust to the sunlight it's really nice out here.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Yep, yep....Too bad you remain ignorant of both those 2 terms TRUE meaning, when it comes to man & religion.

You remain entrapped in the reactive stages of an anti-establishment, anti-authoritarian revolt.....You'll return home soon enough, to discover you've thrown the baby out with the bath-water.....And all these years spent in exile & in protest, will have been wasted energy.

Lol
My folks were atheists,we are all born atheists,some unfortunate children are then indoctrinated into their parents belief system.
It is not by choice,that disgusts me,the fear a child being told they are going to burn in hell if they don’t believe is child abuse.
But,just like all religions,they love child abuse,it’s written and commanded in every religion and every lying unholy book they believe are holy.

I will return home to the earth yes,you finally got something right pro,some of me might even eventually return to the stars,the place where we all truly come from,whether the theists like it or not!

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

What's that famous quote again from Dostoyevsky's Crime & Punishment?

"Without God, then anything is permissible".....God here is symbolic of that small voice of reason & conscience that we all possess....And when we turn our backs on it or ignore it often enough, then it most assuredly withers away....And when that becomes societally endemic, then we are most assuredly in trouble.

You said it. God is SYMBOLIC. Some need to rely on the idea of an 'outside adjudicator' because they haven't got the inner strength or fortitude to be a 'good' person on their own because of some belief that the self alone cannot act justly. Maybe they have been brought up to believe that this is so. Conviction is reinforced down the generations. But relying on this 'outside' power because your own inner fire is out can leave you weak. Dependent.

In the beginning everything was unknown. There was no science and no writing. Lightning strikes a tree somewhere. Who did that? Sky people. Lightning strike starts a fire. Fire is terrible but it keeps us warm. How to keep warm? Appease sky people so they do it again.

Someone with rat cunning sees this and thinks of ways to take advantage. "The sky people only speak through me," they might have said. "Build me a house and then we'll talk results." He gets friends and family involved and thus a clerical heirarchy is born.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

None of you really know much about history do you? Or you are deliberately ignoring the obvious. Genocide of all theists and undesirables is hardly emotive nonsense, a hand waving quip you seem so apt at using. You realise that demanding everyone be like you in the public square is rather authoritarian in itself? People have the right to converse and show their beliefs in public if they wish. Why even have this forum and discussion if thats what you truly want?

Lots of words. There is no correlation between religiosity and peaceful societies.

There is a correlation between secular liberal states and peaceful societies. These are facts. You only offer emotion and bumper sticker quotes.

You have your gods. But you religion will have no role in public decision making.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Outside the cave mate, outside the cave. I have lived in both worlds. Once your eyes adjust to the sunlight it's really nice out here.

LOL.....All atheists remain fighting to be born again.....That's why they subscribe to a social Darwinian, dog-eat-dog world.

The enlightenment period was all about the reign & age of reason.....Inner enlightenment has to do with the inner light of God.....The only true enlightenment there is, in a Buddhist sense.

True ecstatic enlightenment is paradoxical, irrational, & has nought to do with Reason.....Which blinds us to the truth & seeing face to face through it's conceptual, man-made world of appearances....You are still mistaking the fire of the hearth for the true light of God....Still trapped in the one-dimensional material world of delusion.

 

[Admiral Byng]

LOL.....All atheists remain fighting to be born again.....That's why they subscribe to a social Darwinian, dog-eat-dog world.

The enlightenment period was all about the reign & age of reason.....Inner enlightenment has to do with the inner light of God.....The only true enlightenment there is, in a Buddhist sense.

True ecstatic enlightenment is paradoxical, irrational, & has nought to do with Reason.....Which blinds us to the truth & seeing face to face through it's conceptual, man-made world of appearances....You are still mistaking the fire of the hearth for the true light of God....Still trapped in the one-dimensional material world of delusion.

Social Darwinism fell out of favour in the early 20 th century. Most atheists are humanists these days. Which is quite the opposite.

As for the rest, this is just your particular cave of delusion.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You said it. God is SYMBOLIC. Some need to rely on the idea of an 'outside adjudicator' because they haven't got the inner strength or fortitude to be a 'good' person on their own because of some belief that the self alone cannot act justly. Maybe they have been brought up to believe that this is so. Conviction is reinforced down the generations. But relying on this 'outside' power because your own inner fire is out can leave you weak. Dependent.

In the beginning everything was unknown. There was no science and no writing. Lightning strikes a tree somewhere. Who did that? Sky people. Lightning strike starts a fire. Fire is terrible but it keeps us warm. How to keep warm? Appease sky people so they do it again.

Someone with rat cunning sees this and thinks of ways to take advantage. "The sky people only speak through me," they might have said. "Build me a house and then we'll talk results." He gets friends and family involved and thus a clerical heirarchy is born.

The autonomous nervous system remains outside of our control....Also the heart-beat & the breath to the extent of their autonomous continuation.....The inner light of the soul is something which is innate, though as wilful beings we can cover-it over & mask it through many socially enforced mechanisms....To the extent that we imagine our identities are something created by us, rather than as something given.

Finding the God within, has more to do with an uncovering of those veils of delusion, layered over our eyes & faces by the imperatives of our cultural mores & demons, as they express themselves through our parents (our childhood Gods) from childhood onwards.....True enlightenment is gotten by a surrender to the light within, not by an enforcement of the will through rationality alone.....Finding & uncovering the true self is what enlightenment is actually about.....Of a seeing the world fully vulnerable & naked, with zero defences.

That is in fact, the wisdom & lesson of the Christ Child....Of an authentic being, untrammelled & unadulterated by societal mores & adult delusions....Of a seeing things face to face.

Atheism & it's claims to enlightenment are all ego-knowledge based.....They are a layered delusion of the man-made social & conceptual world of our creation.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Social Darwinism fell out of favour in the early 20 th century. Most atheists are humanists these days. Which is quite the opposite.

As for the rest, this is just your particular cave of delusion.

Yep....Still entrapped in your one-dimensional thinking.....and you can't even see it.

Truth resides in paradox, one day you'll work it out, as long as you keep seeking.

The fact you are here & attracted to this thread is a good sign nonetheless.

 

[Bennett.]

Lots of words. There is no correlation between religiosity and peaceful societies.

There is a correlation between secular liberal states and peaceful societies. These are facts. You only offer emotion and bumper sticker quotes.

You have your gods. But you religion will have no role in public decision making.

That’s right! More Stalinism please!!

 

[chelseacarlton]

That’s right! More Stalinism please!!

Stalin,as you know was educated in a Seminary,he saw the usefulness of control and victimisation of the masses thru force and human depredation and he did so using the doctrine of christian doctrine and was very successful because of it!

 

[chelseacarlton]

The autonomous nervous system remains outside of our control....Also the heart-beat & the breath to the extent of their autonomous continuation.....The inner light of the soul is something which is innate, though as wilful beings we can cover-it over & mask it through many socially enforced mechanisms....To the extent that we imagine our identities are something created by us, rather than as something given.

Finding the God within, has more to do with an uncovering of those veils of delusion, layered over our eyes & faces by the imperatives of our cultural mores & demons, as they express themselves through our parents (our childhood Gods) from childhood onwards.....True enlightenment is gotten by a surrender to the light within, not by an enforcement of the will through rationality alone.....Finding & uncovering the true self is what enlightenment is actually about.....Of a seeing the world fully vulnerable & naked, with zero defences.

Atheism & it's claims to enlightenment are all ego-knowledge based.....They are a layered delusion of the man-made social & conceptual world of our creation.

Atheism makes no claims.
Can you imagine a world where the priesthood won and the likes of Copernicus and Darwin were buried before their knowledge was freely available?
If that’s what you desires go live in Saudi Arabia mate,you’d enjoy it there.
The Mohammedans had their Al Ghazalis just as we of the west had our priesthood and Christianity Hitlers and Mousselinis and Franco’s and Stalin’s and despot Asian Mao’s,Minh’s and godlike emporers etc.
All religious fervent psycho’s!

 

[Procrastinator35]

Stalin,as you know was educated in a Seminary,he saw the usefulness of control and victimisation of the masses thru force and human depredation and he did so using the doctrine of christian doctrine and was very successful because of it!

Ah....So he was schooled in the use of Christian charity, beneficence & toleration then, via his turning of the other cheek?

Atheism makes no claims.
Can you imagine a world where the priesthood won and the likes of Copernicus and Darwin were buried before their knowledge was freely available?
If that’s what you desires go live in Saudi Arabia mate,you’d enjoy it there.
The Mohammedans had their Al Ghazalis just as we of the west had our priesthood and Christianity Hitlers and Mousselinis and Franco’s and Stalin’s and despot Asian Mao’s,Minh’s and godlike emporers etc.
All religious fervent psycho’s!

Yep.....And nothing to do with Christ's inner message whatsoever.....The true Christian message has nought to do with worldly conquest.....It has everything to do with our own inner battle for the salvation of our own soul from all the temptations of the world, that can & do lead us all astray from our true selves.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Ah....So he was schooled in the use of Christian charity, beneficence & toleration then, via his turning of the other cheek?



Yep.....And nothing to do with Christ's inner message whatsoever.....The true Christian message has nought to do with worldly conquest.....It has everything to do with our own inner battle for the salvation of our own soul from all the temptations of the world, that can & do lead us all astray from our true selves.

Not true.
Christ said “do not suppose I bring peace to the earth,I did not come to bring peace,but a sword.
That’s why islam loves him,they made it their official flag!!
He also proclaimed that the world would end in his time and to forget charity,family,sovereignty,thrift,culture etc.
He was a psycho messianic apocalyptic nutbag.
The god of Abraham and all gods,whether internal or not are psychos!

 

[M Malice]

You said it. God is SYMBOLIC. Some need to rely on the idea of an 'outside adjudicator' because they haven't got the inner strength or fortitude to be a 'good' person on their own because of some belief that the self alone cannot act justly. Maybe they have been brought up to believe that this is so. Conviction is reinforced down the generations. But relying on this 'outside' power because your own inner fire is out can leave you weak. Dependent.

In the beginning everything was unknown. There was no science and no writing. Lightning strikes a tree somewhere. Who did that? Sky people. Lightning strike starts a fire. Fire is terrible but it keeps us warm. How to keep warm? Appease sky people so they do it again.

Someone with rat cunning sees this and thinks of ways to take advantage. "The sky people only speak through me," they might have said. "Build me a house and then we'll talk results." He gets friends and family involved and thus a clerical heirarchy is born.

Brilliant post Geelong Sicko.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The autonomous nervous system remains outside of our control....Also the heart-beat & the breath to the extent of their autonomous continuation.....The inner light of the soul is something which is innate, though as wilful beings we can cover-it over & mask it through many socially enforced mechanisms....To the extent that we imagine our identities are something created by us, rather than as something given.

Finding the God within, has more to do with an uncovering of those veils of delusion, layered over our eyes & faces by the imperatives of our cultural mores & demons, as they express themselves through our parents (our childhood Gods) from childhood onwards.....True enlightenment is gotten by a surrender to the light within, not by an enforcement of the will through rationality alone.....Finding & uncovering the true self is what enlightenment is actually about.....Of a seeing the world fully vulnerable & naked, with zero defences.

That is in fact, the wisdom & lesson of the Christ Child....Of an authentic being, untrammelled & unadulterated by societal mores & adult delusions....Of a seeing things face to face.

Atheism & it's claims to enlightenment are all ego-knowledge based.....They are a layered delusion of the man-made social & conceptual world of our creation.

Logically I'm agnostic. Until there is empirical proof either way you MAY be right, at least in the way there is something beyond and above both humanity and death. I choose actively to believe there are no gods, not for the ego-thrill of rejection itself, but because I honestly can't see it.

All I see in our sociological history is people usually using their beliefs to create some good in the world, but an upper tier of con artists all too willing to exploit the fears of these people for their own ends and so poisoning the well. Organised religion becomes socio-political power.

Power corrupts.

Of course this is the 'belief' versus 'organised religion' confrontation - we know that the latter is made up. 'Religion' is 100% a man-made concept. The possibility of a deity/s inspiring that belief on the other hand is a whole lot less provable.