Can we talk about Russia and the US election?

[Chief]

Just had a listen to the latest Russia, if you’re listening podcast.

A great explanation of the Mueller investigation strategy - start with the small fish and move up the chain to the real target.

Have a listen.

 

[Total Power]

Personally I love the irony of the first African American president destroying the richest nation in Africa, just as it was going to bring Africa a gold standard currency, and a telecommunications satellite. Which in turn led to the migrant crisis that is pushing Europe to the far right.

Well first, the premise that an “invasion” ended Gaddafi’s vision is rather dubious. Second, Gaddafi pitched this idea while presiding over the African Union in 2009, among other ideas. Few African heads of state were enthusiastic and evidently few people took Gaddafi’s ideas very seriously to warrant a global return to something resembling a system dependent on gold. Please stop reading conspiracy sites specially RT and globalresarch.ca

I think all of this demonstrates that the UK, US, and France bombed Libya hoping to secure lucrative deals and install a pliant government favorable to "international investment". For example, this particular email actually alludes to France and the UK dividing up Libyan oil production and trying to muscle out Russia: Hillary Clinton Email Archive

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

I don't have a theory.

I have Russian propaganda media outlets claiming the rebels shot down a plane on July 17th near Snizhne. Fact.
I have rebel leaders bragging about shooting down a plane in the same location on their social media accounts before retracting those posts after discovering what they had done. Fact.
Hundreds of photos / videos of a Russian BUK missile launcher transported from Kursk all the way through Russia and through Donbass on July 17/18 2014. Fact.
I have video footage from when rebels arrived at the crash scene looking for military cargo and/or documents. Fact.
I have forensically proven trail of warhead fragments recovered from the bodies of the flight crew traced back to the Russian military. Fact.
I have numerous phone intercepts of your fellow employees talking to rebel leaders about how they shot the aircraft down. Fact.
Smoke trail from missile launch near Snizhne caught on camera. Fact.
Need I go on and embarrass you further?

I know it's a tough life earning 45000 roubles / month over in St Petersburg at the "internet research agency" but I promise you comrade you won't be banished to Siberia if you go off script and accept the fact that there is conclusive evidence of Russia's role in the MH17 atrocity.

so by your own admission a fake news outfit you are not showing any customsci for is your evidence?

that's funny

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

On that basis Qatar is the richest nation in the world which is obviously not the case.



Nigeria total GDP: 405.1 Billion USD
Libya total GDP: 34.1 Billion USD.


Massive difference, Nigeria is much richer by an order of magnitudes.


Besides, things were relatively good in Libya following the demise of Gaddafi. It wasn't until Haftar came along that divisions / alliances formed and things deteriorated. Obama is on record that the international community should have done more to prevent his happening.

relatively good in Libya?

her you have a very weird definition of " good"!

do we take you seriously?

can you show us where terrorism taking over Libya was considered good?

everybody knows it wasn't good except you who is trying to find a time where it was considered good that terrorists took over the richest country in Africa and turned it into a mess


but Ukrainian Nazis and Sunni extremists seems to be what you're into

that's kind of strange mate!

 

[Procrastinator35]

but Ukrainian Nazis and Sunni extremists seems to be what you're into

But they're all doing such a good job on behalf of the Neo-cons mate......Come on.....what have you got against the mass slaughter of innocents for the continued maintenance of power & profit anyways?

Geez....Get with da programme.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Yep. It really is just finger-pointing and allegations at this point. Anything is possible.



This is an allegation too, and again well within the realm of possibility



They've been a laughing stock in my eyes for years. Decades. All that shite about Nigerian yellowcake uranium and bullshit testimony delivered by a mysterious 'defector' known as 'curveball'...

I've seen enough in my time to doubt everything, every single thing, that comes from the mouths of so-called 'intelligence' agents.

F*ck 'em.



Back in Soviet times folk used to commit suicide by three or four well-placed bullets to the back of the head. It could have been that easy. As I said though, anything is possible. We civillians probably know 2% of what really goes on in the shadows between nations.

Not true, zidanne knows e

But they're all doing such a good job on behalf of the Neo-cons mate......Come on.....what have you got against the mass slaughter of innocents for the continued maintenance of power & profit anyways?

Geez....Get with da programme.

when you try to follow zidanes arguments it's scary to think there are people who believe that kind of stuff

Isis is good and Syrian people are bad

neo Nazi Ukrainians are great people

neo con American wars are fantastic

Russia bad

 

[Zidane98]

relatively good in Libya?

her you have a very weird definition of " good"!

do we take you seriously?

can you show us where terrorism taking over Libya was considered good?

everybody knows it wasn't good except you who is trying to find a time where it was considered good that terrorists took over the richest country in Africa and turned it into a mess


but Ukrainian Nazis and Sunni extremists seems to be what you're into

that's kind of strange mate!

Libya was nowhere near the richest country in Africa. Terrorism was wide spread under Gaddafi - often state sponsored - and human rights records were horrific.

Unlike your employers I am against facism which was brought to Ukraine by your employers who openly support fascist groups.

Back in the 40s Soviet Union even signed a treaty with the Nazis, expelled the local population of Kaliningrad & invaded Baltic States by force.

Russia is the biggest fascism threat in today's world and it looks like history is repeating itself.

 

[Zidane98]

Any country will be bad to be if you legitimately threaten the state.

There are plenty of nations that are threatened (South Korea a good example) that don't go down the path of extremism / terrorism.

Besides that's got nothing to do with Gaddafi's appalling human rights record.

 

[Zidane98]

so by your own admission a fake news outfit you are not showing any customsci for is your evidence?

that's funny

Nice try but no cigar. I've listed numerous items of evidence against your employers being involved in the MH17 disaster.

I do note you conveniently ignored your rebel leader mates boasting about the shootdown on VK only to remove their posts when they discovered what they had done.

And the rest of the conclusive evidence.


I only hope you don't get into trouble from your supervisor over at the internet research agency in St Petersburg for making yourself look like quite the useful idiot !

 

[awaremind]

There are plenty of nations that are threatened (South Korea a good example) that don't go down the path of extremism / terrorism.

Besides that's got nothing to do with Gaddafi's appalling human rights record.

They harbour an occupying force for 60 years though.

Nice try but no cigar. I've listed numerous items of evidence against your employers being involved in the MH17 disaster.

I do note you conveniently ignored your rebel leader mates boasting about the shootdown on VK only to remove their posts when they discovered what they had done.

And the rest of the conclusive evidence.


I only hope you don't get into trouble from your supervisor over at the internet research agency in St Petersburg for making yourself look like quite the useful idiot !

That then would be a war time “accident “ and tbh Ukraine was after all slaughtering their own citizens using warplanes for a bit there, and should take a fair chunk of the blame.

 

[awaremind]

Well first, the premise that an “invasion” ended Gaddafi’s vision is rather dubious. Second, Gaddafi pitched this idea while presiding over the African Union in 2009, among other ideas. Few African heads of state were enthusiastic and evidently few people took Gaddafi’s ideas very seriously to warrant a global return to something resembling a system dependent on gold. Please stop reading conspiracy sites specially RT and globalresarch.ca

I think all of this demonstrates that the UK, US, and France bombed Libya hoping to secure lucrative deals and install a pliant government favorable to "international investment". For example, this particular email actually alludes to France and the UK dividing up Libyan oil production and trying to muscle out Russia: Hillary Clinton Email Archive

Yeah , well obviously making a buck through wanton destruction makes it ok. I just wish we’d own it rather than we did it for “ human rights” or “freedom and democracy . Lol we are the evil empire why not bask in our dominance, it may be the last chance we get.

 

[Total Power]

Yeah , well obviously making a buck through wanton destruction makes it ok. I just wish we’d own it rather than we did it for “ human rights” or “freedom and democracy . Lol we are the evil empire why not bask in our dominance, it may be the last chance we get.

Where have i said it's ok? i don't take sides like a footy team, but here posters like p35 often peddle bs CT to push their political agenda, i was merely pointing it out. I don't support 'any side' to be clear.

 

[awaremind]

Where have i said it's ok? i don't take sides like a footy team, but here posters like p35 often peddle bs CT to prove their political agenda, i was merely pointing it out. I don't support 'any side' to be clear.

I know, you sounded fair, but my point was that dominance over the weak is common and natural, keeping the population suspended in fairy tales just makes us look deluded and self riteous to the rest of the world and won’t stop our enemies punishing us or our children the same way we have hurt theirs in the past if they get the chance.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The intent was to kill whoever was in the plane so yes it is murder for me.

If you are of the mindset that 'all war is murder' I actually can see your point.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

If you assault a cop even if you have evidence that you didn't realise it was a cop you still get done for aggravated assault.

But are you done for 'assaulting a police officer'? If the cop was plain-clothed and did not identify themselves as such, and/or were not acting in their official capacity as a sworn officer of the law (i.e off-duty cop out on the piss with mates) are you sure the charges wouldn't just be 'common' assault/battery/aggrevated assault, etc?

 

[Chief]

But are you done for 'assaulting a police officer'? If the cop was plain-clothed and did not identify themselves as such, and/or were not acting in their official capacity as a sworn officer of the law (i.e off-duty cop out on the piss with mates) are you sure the charges wouldn't just be 'common' assault/battery/aggrevated assault, etc?

Only while performing their cop duties, but it can be different between criminal codes.

 

[Zidane98]

If you are of the mindset that 'all war is murder' I actually can see your point.

I'm not of that mindset. There was no right for the rebels to start shooting randomly at targets under one of the busiest Europe - Asia airways. In any case the intended target was a transport plane. If the rebels had any sort of legitimacy about them (which they don't) they would have attempted to contact the aircraft via radio and warn them to stay away (which they did not). A Russian fighter jet intercept was obviously not possible over Ukranian territory.

I am of the opinion that you fire SAM blindy at aircraft over another countries sovereign territory without any prejudice then yes it should be considered murder.


There can be absolutely no defence of the rebels and Russians in this whole saga.

 

[Zidane98]

They harbour an occupying force for 60 years though.

That then would be a war time “accident “ and tbh Ukraine was after all slaughtering their own citizens using warplanes for a bit there, and should take a fair chunk of the blame.

Russia keeps claiming they aren't waging war on Ukraine though remember. So no, it wouldn't be a wartime accident. And there is no justification for firing SAM missiles at random targets on another countries territory over a known busy air route.


It would help if Russia turned over all the suspects involved to the Dutch for prosecution but don't hold your breath about that happening any time soon. It will take a change of regime for that to happen.

The Russians only finally turned over the flight recorders for KAL 007 (1983 shootdown) after the collapse of the USSR.

 

[Zidane98]

This is the result of the Russians and their rebel constituents being allowed to get away with aggression against Ukraine unchecked:


https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/un-says-mariupol-attack-was-war-crime-43290

OSCE report on the attack:

https://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/136061


Mariupol rocket attack was disgraceful and purely launched because the city wouldn't let the rebel terrorists take it over.
Russia then going on to veto the UN condemnation of this atrocity shows that they've got absolutely no shame.


And I can guarantee that one or two useful idiots in here will still defend Russia's actions in this instance.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

On that basis Qatar is the richest nation in the world which is obviously not the case.



Nigeria total GDP: 405.1 Billion USD
Libya total GDP: 34.1 Billion USD.


Massive difference, Nigeria is much richer by an order of magnitudes.


Besides, things were relatively good in Libya following the demise of Gaddafi. It wasn't until Haftar came along that divisions / alliances formed and things deteriorated. Obama is on record that the international community should have done more to prevent his happening.

On that bases you probably want Qatar bombed to raise its standard of living?

Nice try but no cigar. I've listed numerous items of evidence against your employers being involved in the MH17 disaster.

I do note you conveniently ignored your rebel leader mates boasting about the shootdown on VK only to remove their posts when they discovered what they had done.

And the rest of the conclusive evidence.


I only hope you don't get into trouble from your supervisor over at the internet research agency in St Petersburg for making yourself look like quite the useful idiot !

you haven't cited anything

I'm not talking about listing

I'm talking about facts from somewhere lol

you obviously don't get the difference

I know that when you're going to go to the lengths of supporting Ukrainazis and wahabbi plus their enablers against Russia you'll be clinging to straws

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Libya was nowhere near the richest country in Africa. Terrorism was wide spread under Gaddafi - often state sponsored - and human rights records were horrific.

Unlike your employers I am against facism which was brought to Ukraine by your employers who openly support fascist groups.

Back in the 40s Soviet Union even signed a treaty with the Nazis, expelled the local population of Kaliningrad & invaded Baltic States by force.

Russia is the biggest fascism threat in today's world and it looks like history is repeating itself.

do you know anything about Libya?

lol

it's hard to argue with someone who doesn't understand factual context

tell me my friend

which country in Africa had a higher standard of living

 

[Zidane98]

On that bases you probably want Qatar bombed to raise its standard of living?

you haven't cited anything

I'm not talking about listing

I'm talking about facts from somewhere lol

you obviously don't get the difference

I know that when you're going to go to the lengths of supporting Ukrainazis and wahabbi plus their enablers against Russia you'll be clinging to straws

Your posting standards keep dropping, you might be getting the sack soon from your superiors at the internet research agency in St Petersburg.


A tip: ignoring facts and posting counter accusations doesn't change those facts.

I understand that factual information (like the Soviets signing a deal with the Nazis) is overrated in your country.

How's the rebel bombardment of Maruipol going for you? Bet they didn't teach you about that over at the "internet research agency. I do apologise if the link to the OSCE report is blocked for you though. Factual reports tend to get blocked from viewing by the average Russian citizen.

 

[Total Power]

I know, you sounded fair, but my point was that dominance over the weak is common and natural, keeping the population suspended in fairy tales just makes us look deluded and self riteous to the rest of the world and won’t stop our enemies punishing us or our children the same way we have hurt theirs in the past if they get the chance.

I agree, its social Darwinism and it's bad, but it's a fact that the strong rule over the weak. But you also have to blame the people who subscribe to such nonsense (institutionalised religion for example) and sell their ethos for such *****. I cannot personally understand how can one human take the life of another human, but that's just me. For others it must be easy. Unfortunately socialism Darwinism is going to get worse with overpopulation and scarcity of resources. If US doesn't do it China will, historically the rich and the powerful always did it.

 

[Poor Form]

Didn't the US assist in removing the democratically elected president in Ukraine in 2014 because he was cozying up to Russia?

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

ok so the Netherlands won't be helping the white helmets in their time of need lol

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2018/...rting-syrian-rebels-ahead-of-idlib-offensive/

poor white helmets

I have a great idea

all those that helped them must now take them in