Can we talk about Russia and the US election?

[shniko11]

There's not much to know other than state sponsored Russian propaganda outlets reported that the rebels shot a plane down on July 17 near Snizhne. Those sane news outlets retracted those reports upon the rebels discovering the atrocity they committed.

The above is not a matter for debate. You can draw your own conclusions as to the guilt of the rebels / Russians over the MH17 shootdown.

Yep could very well be the Russians in this case i can't say it wasn't with any certainty.

 

[Zidane98]

Yep could very well be the Russians in this case i can't say it wasn't with any certainty.

There's enough evidence to say they are responsible beyond reasonable doubt. Some of the stories they've come up with in response are just embarrassing.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

There surely aren't any useful idiots still defending Russia over MH17. Both lifenews & TASS reported the rebels shooting down a plane on 17th July 2014 only to backpeddale when the rebels discovered they had murdered 300 civilians. Those media outlets are state sponsored propaganda and got their information from the rebels themselves...

Gotta pull you up on this - from a legal perspective if nothing else. All of the stuff I've read about the downing indicates that the Novorossiyan forces thought a Ukrainian military transport had been shot down.

Legally speaking, 'murder' is a deliberate act. The SAM crew would have to have clearly identified the plane as civilian and shot it down anyway for this to have been 'murder'. All the intercepted chatter seemed to indicate much confusion at the crash site when civilian luggage was discovered and not military cargo that they were expecting.

It would be 'manslaughter' or 'negligent homicide' or another similar charge depending on which nation the charges were laid in.

Intent is the key.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Gotta pull you up on this - from a legal perspective if nothing else. All of the stuff I've read about the downing indicates that the Novorossiyan forces thought a Ukrainian military transport had been shot down.
Legally speaking, 'murder' is a deliberate act. The SAM crew would have to have clearly identified the plane as civilian and shot it down anyway for this to have been 'murder'. All the intercepted chatter seemed to indicate much confusion at the crash site when civilian luggage was discovered and not military cargo that they were expecting.
It would be 'manslaughter' or 'negligent homicide' or another similar charge depending on which nation the charges were laid in.Intent is the key.

The key here is in remembering who it was that was responsible in the first place for sending that airliner off-course & into the firing line in the first place.....And it was Kiev Air traffic control that directed MH17, 13 kilometres off it's regular flight path & asked it to drop down a further 2 kilometres.

We also have the Russian radar records which show 2 Su30's being scrambled from from Kiev directly en-route to the plane's flight-path.

Then there's the none-too subtle shot-out left-hand side of the cockpit & reports of a missile fired at the jet from one of those 2 planes, upon whose meeting the plane, it immediately was sent crashing to the ground thereafter.....Images of which have all been provided for by the Russians.

These are all facts that you won't see listed, advertised or spoken about in the Western media.....Because they know full well it was the Ukrainian air-traffic control out of Kiev who were responsible.....The entire MH17 story is a cover-up on a massive scale encompassing nothing but obfuscation, propaganda & censorship.

 

[Zidane98]

Gotta pull you up on this - from a legal perspective if nothing else. All of the stuff I've read about the downing indicates that the Novorossiyan forces thought a Ukrainian military transport had been shot down.

Legally speaking, 'murder' is a deliberate act. The SAM crew would have to have clearly identified the plane as civilian and shot it down anyway for this to have been 'murder'. All the intercepted chatter seemed to indicate much confusion at the crash site when civilian luggage was discovered and not military cargo that they were expecting.

It would be 'manslaughter' or 'negligent homicide' or another similar charge depending on which nation the charges were laid in.

Intent is the key.

The intent was to kill whoever was in the plane so yes it is murder for me.

The Russians / rebels did the same thing with the bombardment of Mauriopol. To show just how low they've stooped they even vetod a UN condemnation of the attack.

And they'll keep doing stuff like this until they get punished severely for it.

 

[Zidane98]

The key here is in remembering who it was that was responsible in the first place for sending that airliner off-course & into the firing line in the first place.....And it was Kiev Air traffic control that directed MH17, 13 kilometres off it's regular flight path & asked it to drop down a further 2 kilometres.

We also have the Russian radar records which show 2 Su30's being scrambled from from Kiev directly en-route to the plane's flight-path.

Then there's the none-too subtle shot-out left-hand side of the cockpit & reports of a missile fired at the jet from one of those 2 planes, upon whose meeting the plane, it immediately was sent crashing to the ground thereafter.....Images of which have all been provided for by the Russians.

These are all facts that you won't see listed, advertised or spoken about in the Western media.....Because they know full well it was the Ukrainian air-traffic control out of Kiev who were responsible.....The entire MH17 story is a cover-up on a massive scale encompassing nothing but obfuscation, propaganda & censorship.

You've posted a list of absolute lies as usual. No wonder you love the Russians so much!

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Why can't you get a quote from the Russian embassy twitter or RT or Sputnik? what you just posted is Zionist MSM propaganda. Russia will never do any such thing and it hasn't been reported in any of the Russian news media. Stop being an apologist for Zionists and come join me,i will talk to shinko about your payment from Kremlin

I remember wmd and the mainstream media and western Zionist intelligence lol

you obviously don't

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

You've posted a list of absolute lies as usual. No wonder you love the Russians so much!

which bit was lies exactly lol

give us the facts my friend

so far you don't give anything but conspiracy theories

 

[Zidane98]

which bit was lies exactly lol

give us the facts my friend

so far you don't give anything but conspiracy theories

The nonsense about fighter jets for a start that your employers contradicted themselves over 2 years later with radar records they "discovered" by accident.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

published

The nonsense about fighter jets for a start that your employers contradicted themselves over 2 years later with radar records they "discovered" by accident.

haha who are you talking about?

 

[Chief]

Gotta pull you up on this - from a legal perspective if nothing else. All of the stuff I've read about the downing indicates that the Novorossiyan forces thought a Ukrainian military transport had been shot down.

Legally speaking, 'murder' is a deliberate act. The SAM crew would have to have clearly identified the plane as civilian and shot it down anyway for this to have been 'murder'. All the intercepted chatter seemed to indicate much confusion at the crash site when civilian luggage was discovered and not military cargo that they were expecting.

It would be 'manslaughter' or 'negligent homicide' or another similar charge depending on which nation the charges were laid in.

Intent is the key.

If you assault a cop even if you have evidence that you didn't realise it was a cop you still get done for aggravated assault.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

If you assault a cop even if you have evidence that you didn't realise it was a cop you still get done for aggravated assault.

yeah but no evidence you won't
not just on he said, she said'

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

The intent was to kill whoever was in the plane so yes it is murder for me.

The Russians / rebels did the same thing with the bombardment of Mauriopol. To show just how low they've stooped they even vetod a UN condemnation of the attack.

And they'll keep doing stuff like this until they get punished severely for it.

lol you have no proof

There is no proof

ridiculous

I think it's Kiev

they have a history of it

what is your theory!?

 

[Zidane98]

lol you have no proof

There is no proof

ridiculous

I think it's Kiev

they have a history of it

what is your theory!?

I don't have a theory.

I have Russian propaganda media outlets claiming the rebels shot down a plane on July 17th near Snizhne. Fact.
I have rebel leaders bragging about shooting down a plane in the same location on their social media accounts before retracting those posts after discovering what they had done. Fact.
Hundreds of photos / videos of a Russian BUK missile launcher transported from Kursk all the way through Russia and through Donbass on July 17/18 2014. Fact.
I have video footage from when rebels arrived at the crash scene looking for military cargo and/or documents. Fact.
I have forensically proven trail of warhead fragments recovered from the bodies of the flight crew traced back to the Russian military. Fact.
I have numerous phone intercepts of your fellow employees talking to rebel leaders about how they shot the aircraft down. Fact.
Smoke trail from missile launch near Snizhne caught on camera. Fact.
Need I go on and embarrass you further?

I know it's a tough life earning 45000 roubles / month over in St Petersburg at the "internet research agency" but I promise you comrade you won't be banished to Siberia if you go off script and accept the fact that there is conclusive evidence of Russia's role in the MH17 atrocity.

 

[awaremind]

So have the Yanks. Trump surely going down as worst POTUS of all time.

Personally I love the irony of the first African American president destroying the richest nation in Africa, just as it was going to bring Africa a gold standard currency, and a telecommunications satellite. Which in turn led to the migrant crisis that is pushing Europe to the far right.

 

[awaremind]

Keep blaming Russia for everything and their next president will be much more warlike and hardline. It’ll be like North Korea with ten thousand nukes, and better air defence and delivery platforms than us.

 

[Zidane98]

Keep blaming Russia for everything and their next president will be much more warlike and hardline. It’ll be like North Korea with ten thousand nukes, and better air defence and delivery platforms than us.

Russia needs a leadership shakeup. Life was much better for the average Ruski in the 2000's when Putin was on better terms with the Yanks and didn't have delusions of grandeur about expanding the Russian empire.

 

[Zidane98]

Personally I love the irony of the first African American president destroying the richest nation in Africa, just as it was going to bring Africa a gold standard currency, and a telecommunications satellite. Which in turn led to the migrant crisis that is pushing Europe to the far right.

I wouldn't say Nigeria was destroyed by Obama. The nation has been wrought with dictatorship & corruption for decades. If it was run properly Nigeria could be as rich as a Middle Eastern nation but the reality is a large amount of oil generated revenue simply disappears into a black hole of corruption. Perhaps the Poms could have done a better job when leaving the join after colonising it. It's a mess. Side note: I have a good friend who works in the oil industry. Spent 6 months in Nigeria and wanted to get out of there ASAP despite being paid nearly triple what he could get in Australia. Also did 6 months in Libya which wasn't as bad in terms of safety but drove you crazy because you were stuck out in the middle of the desert with no women, no alcohol and absolutely nothing to do!

 

[Procrastinator35]

lol you have no proof

There is no proof
ridiculous
I think it's Kiev
they have a history of it
what is your theory!?

Odessa via Kiev.

Personally I love the irony of the first African American president destroying the richest nation in Africa, just as it was going to bring Africa a gold standard currency, and a telecommunications satellite. Which in turn led to the migrant crisis that is pushing Europe to the far right.

And we'll toss in the U.S ambassador, the known Arabist scholar as a freebie.

 

[awaremind]

I wouldn't say Nigeria was destroyed by Obama. The nation has been wrought with dictatorship & corruption for decades. If it was run properly Nigeria could be as rich as a Middle Eastern nation but the reality is a large amount of oil generated revenue simply disappears into a black hole of corruption. Perhaps the Poms could have done a better job when leaving the join after colonising it. It's a mess. Side note: I have a good friend who works in the oil industry. Spent 6 months in Nigeria and wanted to get out of there ASAP despite being paid nearly triple what he could get in Australia. Also did 6 months in Libya which wasn't as bad in terms of safety but drove you crazy because you were stuck out in the middle of the desert with no women, no alcohol and absolutely nothing to do!

Libya was richer in terms of gdp per capita.

 

[Zidane98]

Libya was richer in terms of gdp per capita.

On that basis Qatar is the richest nation in the world which is obviously not the case.



Nigeria total GDP: 405.1 Billion USD
Libya total GDP: 34.1 Billion USD.


Massive difference, Nigeria is much richer by an order of magnitudes.


Besides, things were relatively good in Libya following the demise of Gaddafi. It wasn't until Haftar came along that divisions / alliances formed and things deteriorated. Obama is on record that the international community should have done more to prevent his happening.

 

[awaremind]

On that basis Qatar is the richest nation in the world which is obviously not the case.



Nigeria total GDP: 405.1 Billion USD
Libya total GDP: 34.1 Billion USD.


Massive difference, Nigeria is much richer by an order of magnitudes.


Besides, things were relatively good in Libya following the demise of Gaddafi. It wasn't until Haftar came along that divisions / alliances formed and things deteriorated. Obama is on record that the international community should have done more to prevent his happening.

If he thought it wouldn’t he’s very naive, which he may have been. More likely a wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[Zidane98]

If he thought it wouldn’t he’s very naive, which he may have been. More likely a wolf in sheeps clothing.

Libya was a very bad place to be under Gaddafi unless you were friendly with him.

 

[awaremind]

Libya was a very bad place to be under Gaddafi unless you were friendly with him.

Any country will be bad to be if you legitimately threaten the state.

 

[awaremind]

Any country will be bad to be if you legitimately threaten the state.

And when it came down to it even a ragtag rebel bunch became a threat when it triggered the might of 4 of the most powerful airforces in the world onto him. They would have been easily defeated if not for that intervention.