List Mgmt. 2018 St Kilda Trade Thread Part 3

[Brains Trust66]

MG does Billy Longer have a game like this on his resume ?

Yes it looks impressive, but apart from when he was up against Mummy , the rest of the time he had a smaller opponent which helped.


Go Saints

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

I still don’t get how Billy has been in the system this long yet not improved his marking at all? Especially given he was touted by many as a genuine ruck with the ability to go forward and be dangerous.

Very good question. I think the way he has been used hasn’t helped and he just seems devoid of all confidence during games. He’s actually a pretty skilled player for someone his size, you can see that at training.
Would love him to improve but you probably have to think that what we have now is what we’ve got.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

MG does Billy Longer have a game like this on his resume ?

Does Preuss have a 20 disposal, 4 mark, 5 tackle, 51 hit out game on his resume?

 

[George]

Libba Steele & Hannebery in the midfield.

Absolute bulls.

 

[Moorabbin Ghost]

I agree , at least you know what you are getting with Dunstan. Plus Dunstan played really well for the first half of the season . Who knows , next year he might play well all year .


Go Saints

Dunstan’s issue is that he can’t run at an AFL standard. There was always an expectation that he would improve but it just hasn’t come.
This year when we had Dunstan and Armitage in the side we were smashed at spread both offensively and defensively. They both give their all but they aren’t physically suited to today’s footy, especially when we have a midfield dominated by slower inside types. Spook is a victim of his tank and the club he was drafted to in that there’s other similar players who can cover the ground better (Ross, Steele).
I think Dunstan leaves and I think if he gets to a club where he’s the number 1 or 2 mid then he’ll be a very good player.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I still don’t get how Billy has been in the system this long yet not improved his marking at all? Especially given he was touted by many as a genuine ruck with the ability to go forward and be dangerous.

Because he is f...in lazy and doesnt work hard enough around the ground! He needs a coach who can give him a major rocket IMO, and if he doesnt respond to that then delist him.

 

[Fehring]

No wonder we moved back to Moorabbin....

Carlisle, Hanners & Libba to bring back the SAINTS DISCO!!!!!!

**** YEAH!!!

Bring back Big Gardi as mentor.


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[plugger66]

Does Preuss have a 20 disposal, 4 mark, 5 tackle, 51 hit out game on his resume?

He has played 8 games some with Goldstein. Seriously. Pruess probably doesn't have a no kick no mark 5 handball 32 hit out game either. In 8 games only he does have a game with 16 possessions 9 marks 2 goals and 32 hit outs. And Goldstein that game as well. Anyway no idea why you mentioned possessions because you have told us its not about that for rucks.

 

[Keg on legs]

Sorry to breathe oxygen into the ruck debate, but just my 2 bobs worth:

We all know that 2019 shapes as a make or break year for Billy.

Max Gawn is 2 years older than Billy. If we compare Max of 2 years ago vs Billy now:

Games played: Max 61. Billy now on 65.
Disposal average: Max 14.5 vs Billy 9.4
Hit outs: Max 42.2 vs Billy 38.6 (couldn't find the HOTA stats)

Now, i am not for 1 second saying that Billy will ever be even fit to tie Max's shoelaces, but next year correlates with the year where Max really broke out. Billy has next year to step up or we will probably know his ceiling. If his 2018 ceiling is it, we sure as hell better surround him with good mids, coz he ain't offering much else after the hit out.

 

[mightymalaka]

His issue is simple. Ross and Steele and lack of run and possessions.

Lack of run is his issue but that's not his go! Lack of run for our midfield in general is a bigger issue!
As for possessions.....Think you will find if you look at his avg game time he actually compares favorably to
Cho's main man Ross! And you'll find he snags a goal or two more than most of our mids and wins stoppages and one is the very
few in the team that can actually lay a tackle!

 

[plugger66]

Lack of run is his issue but that's not his go! Lack of run for our midfield in general is a bigger issue!
As for possessions.....Think you will find if you look at his avg game time he actually compares favorably to
Cho's main man Ross! And you'll find he snags a goal or two more than most of our mids and wins stoppages and one is the very
few in the team that can actually lay a tackle!

There is a reason he plays less time. That is one stat I take completely no notice of. So aprt from the crap answer of Richo has no idea why does he get dropped and play less time. Im going with they think he has issues. Dunstan or Ross. Ross every day of the week for me.

 

[BrutThough]

On all available evidence, Preuss isn't significantly better than the ruck options we currently and considering what would be required to get him, he isnt worth trading in. Getting him would essentially be trading sideways instead of trading to improve.

 

[gringo2011]

Hanners looks inside to me and is libber better than our second and third b and f. Doubtful and where does at least one of them play. Doubt any should be in the seconds so we are again stuck with finding positions they can’t play well in. Like I said I doubt we are interested for that reason

He was definitely inside outside once. His outside run was his strength. He’s like Freeman where he’s become full time inside because he’s restricted. He can win his own ball but he’s slow and can’t burst any more now.

 

[Greg1853]

Dunstan’s issue is that he can’t run at an AFL standard. There was always an expectation that he would improve but it just hasn’t come.
This year when we had Dunstan and Armitage in the side we were smashed at spread both offensively and defensively. They both give their all but they aren’t physically suited to today’s footy, especially when we have a midfield dominated by slower inside types. Spook is a victim of his tank and the club he was drafted to in that there’s other similar players who can cover the ground better (Ross, Steele).
I think Dunstan leaves and I think if he gets to a club where he’s the number 1 or 2 mid then he’ll be a very good player.

I think I get what you are saying, but if he is playing as the nbr 1 or 2 mid, he is not playing AFL, as I don't see any side prepared to play him as the nbr 1 or 2 mid. Maybe Carlton will get him to help out Cripps, but still, question marks

 

[gringo2011]

Hanners looks inside to me and is libber better than our second and third b and f. Doubtful and where does at least one of them play. Doubt any should be in the seconds so we are again stuck with finding positions they can’t play well in. Like I said I doubt we are interested for that reason

Both are pretty banged up. If we get them both on the park it will be a good effort.

 

[Drake Huggins]

If we are going to trade both Hickey and Longer, we should be looking at getting someone like Darcy Fort from Central Districts in the SANFL. Has VFL experience with Footscray, has been good at Centrals and is about the same dimensions as Preuss, in other words a man mountain. Moves reasonably well for a bloke of his size and unlike Billy, can take an overhead, contested Mark.

Would cost nothing more than a pick in the 50's or even a rookie spot. Good back up for Roma and Lewie, or could even take the top job.

 

[Greg1853]

Sorry to breathe oxygen into the ruck debate, but just my 2 bobs worth:

We all know that 2019 shapes as a make or break year for Billy.

Max Gawn is 2 years older than Billy. If we compare Max of 2 years ago vs Billy now:

Games played: Max 61. Billy now on 65.
Disposal average: Max 14.5 vs Billy 9.4
Hit outs: Max 42.2 vs Billy 38.6 (couldn't find the HOTA stats)

Now, i am not for 1 second saying that Billy will ever be even fit to tie Max's shoelaces, but next year correlates with the year where Max really broke out. Billy has next year to step up or we will probably know his ceiling. If his 2018 ceiling is it, we sure as hell better surround him with good mids, coz he ain't offering much else after the hit out.

Yeah, but Max has transformed himself, dropped kgs, and has lost nothing in ruck ability from doing so, and improved his running.

If Billy drops kgs, he loses some of his strength in the ruck contest, as leaping is not his go, and he probably doesn't stand to gain what Max has around the ground, cause he is s**t at it (technical ruck/marking term), and probably always continues to be s**t at it.

I just don't think Billy has a football brain. He can't even stand on the mark properly, and he gets plenty of chances to do it.

 

[gringo2011]

The suns are just getting smashed yet again, this has become ridiculous imo.

How would you like to loose lynch, may, Martin, hall and possibly some high pick youngsters like scrimshaw all in one season.

Last one out turn off the lights.

The AFL made a rod for their own backs with Essendon they paid compo outside the cap now raid everyone with the money saved. Got punished with pick one and no salary cap. Well done Gil.

 

[mightymalaka]

There is a reason he plays less time. That is one stat I take completely no notice of. So aprt from the crap answer of Richo has no idea why does he get dropped and play less time. Im going with they think he has issues. Dunstan or Ross. Ross every day of the week for me.

You didn't even give me a chance to say Richo has no idea and he's crap!
You know i love to express my feelings on the great Richo!
His big issue is that he slagged the coach publicly. Thats why he got dropped and gets less playing time!
Don't know why that's the stat you would take no notice of! Unless you have full faith in the coaching set ups and their tactics!

On the plus side...Pleasing the world has fallen back on to it's axis
and we are disagreeing again. Just as nature intended!.....

 

[pebblesofsand]

MG does Billy Longer have a game like this on his resume ?

2 marks and a goal in the first quarter - stop already - I've seen enough!!!!

 

[Impatient Saint]

You didn't even give me a chance to say Richo has no idea and he's crap!
You know i love to express my feelings on the great Richo!
His big issue is that he slagged the coach publicly. Thats why he got dropped and gets less playing time!
Don't know why that's the stat you would take no notice of! Unless you have full faith in the coaching set ups and their tactics!

On the plus side...Pleasing the world has fallen back on to it's axis
and we are disagreeing again. Just as nature intended!.....

I have to side with Plugger on this one. Dunstans lack of running capacity is a liability and always has been. He is slow and has zero tank and was a poor draft choice in any year. He cant spend more than 70% TOG and a lot of that is just waddling around. He plays with passion which is great, but he couldnt run out of sight on a dark night.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Preuss is not a sideways trade.
Better height and size, athleticism, mark, age and loves to throw his ample size around. One of those blokes that thrives on a bigger stage.
Also has the ability to kick the ball...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Yes it looks impressive, but apart from when he was up against Mummy , the rest of the time he had a smaller opponent which helped.


Go Saints

Crap game , was he a ruck or a forward?
Only 26 hitouts , no wonder they lost the game.

Round 7 against the same team Longer had 48 hitouts and we won.
3 weeks later against the Bulldogs Longer had 55 hitouts and 11 Contested Possessions. 4 1 %'s. Only 3 kicks mind you.

 

[sobraz]

It’s obvious how much upside Longer has by the amount of clubs falling over themselves to pinch him from us, especially now that’s he’s out of contract?!

The good old ‘one more good preseason and make or break year for Longer’ is the last thing we need to hear. Just give up and delist the potato.

Certain he would not be picked up by any other club. Meanwhile Hickey is likely heading to this years Grand Finalists, who have a great record in recruiting/trading & development. Haha jokes on them I guess?!?
But yeah, make or break year for Longer coming up


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[mightymalaka]

I have to side with Plugger on this one. Dunstans lack of running capacity is a liability and always has been. He is slow and has zero tank and was a poor draft choice in any year. He cant spend more than 70% TOG and a lot of that is just waddling around. He plays with passion which is great, but he couldnt run out of sight on a dark night.

Every team has a waddler and how come 2nd half of last year and 1st half of this year he was running games out fine
and was much closer to 100% game time?
And my comparison with Ross is based purely on what StKilda's benefit is!
Ross currently has currency..Dunny doesn't...Agree something has to give and ideally we can't keep
both of them plus Cho's secret love child Armo!
Armo is the first one that should be out the door but as for the debate on the other two we should
always keep in mind the current landscape of where our coach and club sit!
It's his call ultimately on who plays the roles and what most on here appear to be saying
is that we back Cho's philosophy and his favorites!