Sydney Swans pushing AFL for a 3 Grand Final series : Caroline Wilson 5aa

[LoungeLizard]

How you could each that conclusion is beyond me. The Pies are the common theme. The Eagkes handled your lot and the Tigers didn't.

How did i reach that conclusion?

Richmond finished above WC and played the 3rd place Collingwood, on Collingwoods home ground.
West Coast played 6th placed Melbourne on West Coasts home ground.

Now that's the prelim

Lets look at the other final they played.

West Coast played Collingwood on West Coasts home ground.
Richmond played Hawthorn on Hawthorns home ground.

Now i know this is how the setup for finals is, and i am not arguing about that, but this idiot i quoted said the only time there is an advantage is in the GF.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

How did i reach that conclusion?

Richmond finished above WC and played the 3rd place Collingwood, on Collingwoods home ground.
West Coast played 6th placed Melbourne on West Coasts home ground.

Now that's the prelim

Lets look at the other final they played.

West Coast played Collingwood on West Coasts home ground.
Richmond played Hawthorn on Hawthorns home ground.

Now i know this is how the setup for finals is, and i am not arguing about that, but this idiot i quoted said the only time there is an advantage is in the GF.

And I agree that isn't right there's an advantage in the GF. . But it doesn't make saying that WC had an easy run to the GF right either.

 

[kranky al]

Comprehension really isn't your strong suit.
Your persistent efforts to create fallacious straw man arguments only proves that you know you're wrong.

If you're going to follow the kranky al playbook, you should now hurl some personal insults and disappear. Only to reappear to regurgitate the same failed arguments.

He like you thinks the world will treat you like your parents do: Nag and complain for long enough, throw a tantrum if needs be, and you'll inevitably get your own way. Sadly for you, your parents were wrong when they bought you up to believe that the world revolves around you.

I love how grin has discovered a couple of big words and uses them over and over out of context.

Would have been really cute - as a 9 year old.

 

[kranky al]

How did i reach that conclusion?

Richmond finished above WC and played the 3rd place Collingwood, on Collingwoods home ground.
West Coast played 6th placed Melbourne on West Coasts home ground.

Now that's the prelim

Lets look at the other final they played.

West Coast played Collingwood on West Coasts home ground.
Richmond played Hawthorn on Hawthorns home ground.

Now i know this is how the setup for finals is, and i am not arguing about that, but this idiot i quoted said the only time there is an advantage is in the GF.

Yet the year before - when richmond finished third - they never left the mcg

An interstate team finishing third flies week one.

 

[LoungeLizard]

And I agree that isn't right there's an advantage in the GF. . But it doesn't make saying that WC had an easy run to the GF right either.

Who do you think had it easier?

1st final.
Richmond v Hawthorn Neutral ground?
WC v Collingwood WCs home ground?

Prelims.
Richmond v Collingwood Neutral ground?
WC v Melbourne WCs home ground?

Now, i don't care about the quality of the opposition, it's not the argument, i am talking about where the games were played.

 

[Wallaby]

Err someone posted one up in another thread that suggested hga in finals is more pronounced than h and a

Well, since all finals (except for the GF) are now played in the home state of the better-performing team in the H&A season, you would expect to see home sides win more often - because they are the better team, not because of home ground advantage.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yet the year before - when richmond finished third - they never left the mcg

An interstate team finishing third flies week one.

OMG, get a grip and try some comprehension skills.

Ok here goes, ok i agree with you.

Now let's get back to what i am referring to.

The idiot i quoted said the only time there is an advantage is in the GF, do you agree?

 

[dzussy]

Maybe we should have 3 Melbourne cups.
Bruce can blow two more times a year.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

OMG, get a grip and try some comprehension skills.

Ok here goes, ok i agree with you.

Now let's get back to what i am referring to.

The idiot i quoted said the only time there is an advantage is in the GF, do you agree?

There are some as you said idiots that believe the GF to be a neutral venue. I like you know that home state advantage exists in all games of football be it home and away, finals and grand finals. It certainly doesn't disappear on GF day no matter how many times some seem to think it does.
West Coast did have the easier path in the finals, although most experts thought we would not win any of them?? But as you said that is the system. That is how it panned out this year and next year it could pan out well for a Vic club. Not sure how that can be changed.

 

[PowerForGood]

I’m guessing 48-31 is the record of home teams in finals. Which you’d expect anywhere since, theoretically, the home team is the best team there.

Actually it's the average winning margin in those GF's. (or close to it, did the calcs in my head)

48 for Vic sides against non Vic
31 the other way around.

If we persist with the thought that such a small sample size is valid, then so is this stat that shows Vic sides have a 3 goal benefit from home GF' s.

Waiting for the inevitable response that this is not a valid observation. Which it isn't unless we take simple small samples as being valid.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

There are some as you said idiots that believe the GF to be a neutral venue. I like you know that home state advantage exists in all games of football be it home and away, finals and grand finals. It certainly doesn't disappear on GF day no matter how many times some seem to think it does.
West Coast did have the easier path in the finals, although most experts thought we would not win any of them?? But as you said that is the system. That is how it panned out this year and next year it could pan out well for a Vic club. Not sure how that can be changed.

When someone has a view, that is supported by the evidence, to call them idiots is really dumb.

 

[LoungeLizard]

When someone has a view, that is supported by the evidence, to call them idiots is really dumb.

When someone gets shown reason and then persists with their view, i would call them dumb idiots.

 

[Grin]

I love how grin has discovered a couple of big words and uses them over and over out of context.

Would have been really cute - as a 9 year old.

You hate those nasty big words.

Actually it's the average winning margin in those GF's. (or close to it, did the calcs in my head)

48 for Vic sides against non Vic
31 the other way around.

If we persist with the thought that such a small sample size is valid, then so is this stat that shows Vic sides have a 3 goal benefit from home GF' s.

There you go kranky al
Thats how you use the available data to construct an argument.

 

[HTT]

Actually it's the average winning margin in those GF's. (or close to it, did the calcs in my head)

48 for Vic sides against non Vic
31 the other way around.

If we persist with the thought that such a small sample size is valid, then so is this stat that shows Vic sides have a 3 goal benefit from home GF' s.

Waiting for the inevitable response that this is not a valid observation. Which it isn't unless we take simple small samples as being valid.

I'm not concerned by the sample size - of course, you wanted me to make a contradictory statement. That's a valid observation - Victorian teams win GFs by more than non-Victorian teams do. Of course, since the result in a GF if as good as binary, the fact that binary stats suggest Victorian teams and non-victorian teams have essentially the same chance of winning holds a bit more value.

Going into semantics, I'd also say your assertion of a 3 goal advantage is a bit off.
Combining the two stats, Victorian teams are +384pts in winning GFs, and -279pts in losing GFs (against non-victorian teams). Based on that, it seems Victorian teams are +105pts net in GFs against non-Victorian teams. Divide by the 17 GFs of this type played and that means the average GF between a Victorian and non-Victorian team is 6.2 points in favour of the victorian team. So you could say it's a one goal advantage to Victorian teams.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I'm not concerned by the sample size - of course, you wanted me to make a contradictory statement. That's a valid observation - Victorian teams win GFs by more than non-Victorian teams do. Of course, since the result in a GF if as good as binary, the fact that binary stats suggest Victorian teams and non-victorian teams have essentially the same chance of winning holds a bit more value.

Going into semantics, I'd also say your assertion of a 3 goal advantage is a bit off.
Combining the two stats, Victorian teams are +384pts in winning GFs, and -279pts in losing GFs (against non-victorian teams). Based on that, it seems Victorian teams are +105pts net in GFs against non-Victorian teams. Divide by the 17 GFs of this type played and that means the average GF between a Victorian and non-Victorian team is 6.2 points in favour of the victorian team. So you could say it's a one goal advantage to Victorian teams.

This debate has gotten really silly in terms of b/s statistics and references to data that has never been seen. It smacks of creationism, it's about faith there's a Vic advantage in the GF, not science.

I'd be happy for there to be, but I always prefer reality.

 

[kranky al]

You hate those nasty big words.

Especially when they are bereft of cromulence or any perpiciacity with regards to the subject at hand. When they dont lend any verisimilitude whatsoever to the argument that you espouse and merely serve to expose the poster as a bloviating bovine ruminant.

 

[bh90210fan]

The things I take out of threads like this one is the unbelievable lack of common sense of some posters and an increased assertion with his every post that Grin cooks meth for a living.

 

[kranky al]

The things I take out of threads like this one is the unbelievable lack of common sense of some posters and an increased assertion with his every post that Grin cooks meth for a living.

 

[smasha]

Yet the year before - when richmond finished third - they never left the mcg

An interstate team finishing third flies week one.

I knew fhis would be all about Richmond.

#weareeveryonesgrandfinal

 

[Gethelred]

I'm not talking about Collingwood, i am referring to Richmond, who finished higher than WC and had the harder path to the GF

You're wrong.

Richmond's path to the GF was paved already, their flag already sown up, till Bucks wreaked the party by comprehensively aiming his entire midfield's kicking through Rance's man. Beat them in the middle, beat them in front.

Melbourne away, in Perth, to reach the GF? A hard game to win for Melbourne, but not easier than Richmonds against you. Pull your blinkers off. No-one had you rolling the Tigs, and if they did they were genuinely up against it.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Who do you think had it easier?

1st final.
Richmond v Hawthorn Neutral ground?
WC v Collingwood WCs home ground?

Prelims.
Richmond v Collingwood Neutral ground?
WC v Melbourne WCs home ground?

Now, i don't care about the quality of the opposition, it's not the argument, i am talking about where the games were played.

Yes a non vic team makes the grand final easier if they finish top 2, however it is MUCH harder to finish top 2 as a non Vic team than a Vic team as it means you have won a heap of away games. Richmond went 1-4 away from Vic and still finished 1st......

 

[LoungeLizard]

Yes a non vic team makes the grand final easier if they finish top 2, however it is MUCH harder to finish top 2 as a non Vic team than a Vic team as it means you have won a heap of away games. Richmond went 1-4 away from Vic and still finished 1st......

Why can't people quote in context with the convo?

This post has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

 

[LoungeLizard]

You're wrong.

Richmond's path to the GF was paved already, their flag already sown up, till Bucks wreaked the party by comprehensively aiming his entire midfield's kicking through Rance's man. Beat them in the middle, beat them in front.

Melbourne away, in Perth, to reach the GF? A hard game to win for Melbourne, but not easier than Richmonds against you. Pull your blinkers off. No-one had you rolling the Tigs, and if they did they were genuinely up against it.

I am not talking about the quality of the opposition, i am talking about where they played, try to keep up.

 

[Gethelred]

I am not talking about the quality of the opposition, i am talking about where they played, try to keep up.

Doesn't seem to matter what/how your post is interpreted, you're determined it's not how it was intended. Maybe we're not the ones with the problem, mate.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Doesn't seem to matter what/how your post is interpreted, you're determined it's not how it was intended. Maybe we're not the ones with the problem, mate.

Go and look where i started, i was answering a post that said the GF is the only final with home ground advatage.

Maybe the problem lies with your school teachers, they let you bludge.