Analysis List Analysis

[maanco]

I did up a quick spreadsheet to see how our List looks. It was difficult to place a few players but this is what I have produced.
It looks reasonable and is young and inexperienced.

Ranked 13th on Average Age, 24.0 years old
Ranked 14th on Average Games Played, 56.7 games.


Games Played and Age Data ~ sourced from https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2019/st-kilda

We have 22 players who have played 50 or more AFL matches
we have 23 players who have played less than 50 AFL matches

14 Players Aged 25 or older
31 Players Aged 24 or Younger - 13 of which are 21 or younger. - 18 are 22 to 24

If you would like the spreadsheet let me know.

The list looks well balanced and I think it may give us the flexibility to change our best 22 structure from the norm. I.e. Play 3 talls and 1 medium forward medium and 2 small forwards or 1 Tall and 5 small forwards.)

 

[maanco]

I will later try to categorise player's into different categories:
- first picked players
- role players
- situational players
- players in development
- depth players


From this I will then attempt to pick the best team structure based on the talent available.

Then form my best 22.

 

[majortinkle]

I did up a quick spreadsheet to see how our List looks. It was difficult to place a few players but this is what I have produced.
It looks reasonable and is young and inexperienced.

Ranked 13th on Average Age, 24.0 years old
Ranked 14th on Average Games Played, 56.7 games.

View attachment 588776
Games Played and Age Data ~ sourced from https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2019/st-kilda



14 Players Aged 25 or older
31 Players Aged 24 or Younger - 13 of which are 21 or younger. - 18 are 22 to 24

If you would like the spreadsheet let me know.

The list looks well balanced and I think it may give us the flexibility to change our best 22 structure from the norm. I.e. Play 3 talls and 1 medium forward medium and 2 small forwards or 1 Tall and 5 small forwards.)

I wonder if forwards are really categorised by size. I reckon it would be more illustrative to have them as say leading, pressure and setup forwards?

Membrey and Battle in with the keys as leading, Parker in with the smalls as pressure and maybe mid-forward is better than setup forward now I list these out.

Have you left Roberton out?

 

[maanco]

This could get very subjective But I'm open to discussion

First picked players - Would be best 22 in most AFL sides
Greshem, Steven, Carlisle, Roberton, Membrey, Ross, Hannerbery, Webster, Billings

Second picked players - In best 22 however could be pushed out.
Steele, McKenzie, Bruce, Clark

Role players - Likely to get games, but could certainly be replaced.
Longer, Geary, Brown

Fringe Players - Players That I expect to be in and out of the best 22
Acres, Sinclair, Long, Kent, Hind, White, McCartin, Battle, Marshall, Parker, Lonie, Patton, Young, Austin, Rice, Pierce, Wilkie, Coffield, Battle

Depth players - Are past there prime or in a form slump - likely to be delisted if they don't improve.
Armitage, Dunstan, Newnes, Savage

Players in development
Bytel, King, Langlands, Alabakis, Clavarino, Phillips, Joyce

 

[maanco]

I wonder if forwards are really categorised by size. I reckon it would be more illustrative to have them as say leading, pressure and setup forwards?

Membrey and Battle in with the keys as leading, Parker in with the smalls as pressure and maybe mid-forward is better than setup forward now I list these out.

Have you left Roberton out?

Good idea. I used the above format to keep it as simple as possible whilst still providing some relevant information.
Could have done something similar with the defenders as well i.e. lock down, rebound, intercept.

It appears i did miss Robo, good pick up I would place him as a Utility Defender with 100 to 149 games

 

[maanco]

From the Above - 16 players are first picked - leaving 6 openings. 2 forward pockets, 1 full forward and 3 interchange positions. Question is do i pick the traditional roles or do I mix it up.

Geary Brown Mckenzie
Roberton Carlisle Webster
Billings Steele Hannerbery
Clark Bruce Membrey
xxxx xxxx xxxx

Longer Greshem Steven

Ross xxxx xxxx xxxx


The side is missing Pressure players - Kent as a Mid forward and Long as a small forward come into the side.
It is largely one paced and requires some speed - Hind comes into the side onto the Bench
The Team requires a focal point at Full forward, this is between McCartin, Marshall or King - McCartin comes in as he has shown the most promise and King still needs some time to develop.
This leaves 2 spots left - Do we risk it all and hope for no injuries and select 2 smalls. What happens when Longer - Bruce into the ruck, or even Carlisle.
If a Tall defender goes down we can probably cover them, with the medium defenders but this would mean we need to cover that defender. Long or Ross could possibly take on that role in Defensive 50 to cover a small defender.

So we can probably cover 1 to 2 injuries without causing any major changes to structure. 666 rule makes this more important.

Last 2 spots out of Acres, Marshall, Sinclair, Coffield and potentially the mature age players.
Due to the flexibility and potential of Coffield and Acres I have selected them.

Final Best 22 for 2019 - 2018 edition

Geary Brown Mckenzie
Roberton Carlisle Webster
Billings Steele Hannerbery
Clark Bruce Membrey
Long McCartin Kent

Longer Greshem Steven

Ross Hind Acres Coffield

 

[maanco]

This team would have an average of 83 games of experience.
Number of games listed below

Geary 183 Brown 167 Mckenzie 34
Roberton 128 Carlisle 124 Webster 85
Billings 85 Steele 58 Hannerbery 208
Clark 15 Bruce 91 Membrey 72
Long 14 McCartin 34 Kent 62
Longer 65 Greshem 62 Steven 176
Ross 102 Hind 0 Acres 56 Coffield 10

Very inexperienced forward line - Bruce and Membrey providing much needed experience

 

[gringo2011]

I reckon Lonie might have to transition into the mid forward category to keep his spot. Does well in VFL so it's possible.

 

[CaptainRisky]

From the Above - 16 players are first picked - leaving 6 openings. 2 forward pockets, 1 full forward and 3 interchange positions. Question is do i pick the traditional roles or do I mix it up.

Geary Brown Mckenzie
Roberton Carlisle Webster
Billings Steele Hannerbery
Clark Bruce Membrey
xxxx xxxx xxxx

Longer Greshem Steven

Ross xxxx xxxx xxxx


The side is missing Pressure players - Kent as a Mid forward and Long as a small forward come into the side.
It is largely one paced and requires some speed - Hind comes into the side onto the Bench
The Team requires a focal point at Full forward, this is between McCartin, Marshall or King - McCartin comes in as he has shown the most promise and King still needs some time to develop.
This leaves 2 spots left - Do we risk it all and hope for no injuries and select 2 smalls. What happens when Longer - Bruce into the ruck, or even Carlisle.
If a Tall defender goes down we can probably cover them, with the medium defenders but this would mean we need to cover that defender. Long or Ross could possibly take on that role in Defensive 50 to cover a small defender.

So we can probably cover 1 to 2 injuries without causing any major changes to structure. 666 rule makes this more important.

Last 2 spots out of Acres, Marshall, Sinclair, Coffield and potentially the mature age players.
Due to the flexibility and potential of Coffield and Acres I have selected them.

Final Best 22 for 2019 - 2018 edition

Geary Brown Mckenzie
Roberton Carlisle Webster
Billings Steele Hannerbery
Clark Bruce Membrey
Long McCartin Kent

Longer Greshem Steven

Ross Hind Acres Coffield

Not picking on your team mate but i keep looking at our back line and damn its under whelming , they are not s**t trucks any of them but they all just lack a bit of class , How many of them would get a game at the top say 4 clubs i wonder and that's the part that is a real worry, 4 of the six made it into our top 10 in the B&F this year and Robbo didnt play much , he would have made it 5 of the six in the top 10 .
I have doubts about our back line but it shows up even more how poor our mids and forwards were this year, they really need to lift in the middle or we are going no where

 

[cooperg]

Clark isn't a lock..

 

[maanco]

Not picking on your team mate but i keep looking at our back line and damn its under whelming , they are not s**t trucks any of them but they all just lack a bit of class , How many of them would get a game at the top say 4 clubs i wonder and that's the part that is a real worry, 4 of the six made it into our top 10 in the B&F this year and Robbo didnt play much , he would have made it 5 of the six in the top 10 .
I have doubts about our back line but it shows up even more how poor our mids and forwards were this year, they really need to lift in the middle or we are going no where

I think Roberton, Carlisle & Webster could all get games at other clubs, maybe not first picked. But would get games.

This is probably the strongest backline we could field, with our current list. I dont think its too bad.

 

[maanco]

Clark isn't a lock..

Probably not still gets selected over many others based on his skill and composure.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

This could get very subjective But I'm open to discussion

First picked players - Would be best 22 in most AFL sides
Greshem, Steven, Carlisle, Roberton, Membrey, Ross, Hannerbery, Webster, Billings

Second picked players - In best 22 however could be pushed out.
Steele, McKenzie, Bruce, Clark

Role players - Likely to get games, but could certainly be replaced.
Longer, Geary, Brown

Fringe Players - Players That I expect to be in and out of the best 22
Acres, Sinclair, Long, Kent, Hind, White, McCartin, Battle, Marshall, Parker, Lonie, Patton, Young, Austin, Rice, Pierce, Wilkie, Coffield, Battle

Depth players - Are past there prime or in a form slump - likely to be delisted if they don't improve.
Armitage, Dunstan, Newnes, Savage

Players in development
Bytel, King, Langlands, Alabakis, Clavarino, Phillips, Joyce

Pretty well nailed it I reckon except I’d have Ross in the second group.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

Not picking on your team mate but i keep looking at our back line and damn its under whelming , they are not s**t trucks any of them but they all just lack a bit of class , How many of them would get a game at the top say 4 clubs i wonder and that's the part that is a real worry, 4 of the six made it into our top 10 in the B&F this year and Robbo didnt play much , he would have made it 5 of the six in the top 10 .
I have doubts about our back line but it shows up even more how poor our mids and forwards were this year, they really need to lift in the middle or we are going no where

Had this discussion a bit last year. I think it is actually a function of selection and what the coach values. Not coach bashing here, just making a point about gamestyle.

Richo values pressure, tackling, effort (some version of 'strong in the contest'). That meant that most weeks last year we got some version of:
Geary, Brown, McKenzie
Savage, Carlisle, Gilbo

That backline was experienced and gave good effort, but couldn't hit the great wall of China with their kicking. Yet the coaches really value their contribution (hence the b+f results).
However, if you change the above to the following backline then our ball movement has a very very different feeling:

Webster, Austin, Rice
White, Carlisle, Robbo
(Coffield rotating off the bench)

Transitioning the football from defence is essential to the modern game. While we stick with the core of option 1, I agree that we are going absolutely nowhere.

Personally I would take the younger, less experienced but more skilled and more attacking option. Might be less accountable, but I would rather try to win games rather than focusing on not losing them.

 

[majortinkle]

Had this discussion a bit last year. I think it is actually a function of selection and what the coach values. Not coach bashing here, just making a point about gamestyle.

Richo values pressure, tackling, effort (some version of 'strong in the contest'). That meant that most weeks last year we got some version of:
Geary, Brown, McKenzie
Savage, Carlisle, Gilbo

That backline was experienced and gave good effort, but couldn't hit the great wall of China with their kicking. Yet the coaches really value their contribution (hence the b+f results).
However, if you change the above to the following backline then our ball movement has a very very different feeling:

Webster, Austin, Rice
White, Carlisle, Robbo
(Coffield rotating off the bench)

Transitioning the football from defence is essential to the modern game. While we stick with the core of option 1, I agree that we are going absolutely nowhere.

Personally I would take the younger, less experienced but more skilled and more attacking option. Might be less accountable, but I would rather try to win games rather than focusing on not losing them.

Completely agree but would find space for dmac myself

 

[maanco]

Roberton, Carlisle and Webster are all good kicks.

I would pick Austin over Brown.
However, when Austin played FB last year, his position count was very low and his defensive skills were not as good as Browns.

McKenzie selected due to his defensive pressure, line breaking speed, toughness and intercept marking. His kicking isn't horrible either.
Geary because of leadership and defensive effort.

 

[majortinkle]

Roberton, Carlisle and Webster are all good kicks.

I would pick Austin over Brown.
However, when Austin played FB last year, his position count was very low and his defensive skills were not as good as Browns.

McKenzie selected due to his defensive pressure, line breaking speed, toughness and intercept marking. His kicking isn't horrible either.
Geary because of leadership and defensive effort.

Carlisle to fb and Austin in at chb would be my go to

 

[maanco]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-29/oldest-youngest-most-experienced-club-lists-compared

"In terms of finals experience, Sydney (6.1 games on average), Hawthorn (6) and Geelong (5) head the list as you would expect, followed by West Coast (4.6), Collingwood (4.4) and 2017 premier Richmond (3.4).

Despite the widespread expectations the Bombers will carry into 2019 after winning the fierce battle for former GWS star Dylan Shiel's signature during the Trade Period, their relative inexperience is highlighted again here, with their list boasting a meagre average of 1.1 finals played, the third fewest in the competition.

Only Gold Coast (0.57 games) and St Kilda (0.96) have played fewer finals."


Amazing really, considering our finals success in the 2000s. Although it is 7-8 years later.

 

[maanco]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...n/news-story/8917d27a2e0dd38c614b1807eda13830

ST KILDA

Average age: 23.90 (=12th)

Average games played: 56.7 (=14th)

Champion Data overall list rating: 14th

The numbers aren’t pretty when it comes to the Saints: Defence (16th), forward (13th) and midfield (11th). But it explains why Champion Data has deduced that Alan Richardson’s team has the fifth-worst list in the AFL. It’s possible the club’s forward line has been undersold, with a plethora of players contracting the yips in front of goal this season. What’s more, the addition of No. 4 draft pick Max King is certainly a bonus.

Rise, hold or fall? Hold



With that in mind they have West Coast Ranked 11th

 

[gringo2011]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-29/oldest-youngest-most-experienced-club-lists-compared

"In terms of finals experience, Sydney (6.1 games on average), Hawthorn (6) and Geelong (5) head the list as you would expect, followed by West Coast (4.6), Collingwood (4.4) and 2017 premier Richmond (3.4).

Despite the widespread expectations the Bombers will carry into 2019 after winning the fierce battle for former GWS star Dylan Shiel's signature during the Trade Period, their relative inexperience is highlighted again here, with their list boasting a meagre average of 1.1 finals played, the third fewest in the competition.

Only Gold Coast (0.57 games) and St Kilda (0.96) have played fewer finals."


Amazing really, considering our finals success in the 2000s. Although it is 7-8 years later.

I think Geary might be the only guy from 2009 2010 that actually got games under Lyon and even he only played a few. Stuv and Armo were on the outer. Only three players still on our list were here in 2011.

 

[Ambrosia]

Always had a soft spot for the Saints. I'd say there are plenty of question marks over the list being premiership quality in it's current state but right now the biggest problems are to do with coaching and game plan imo.

Saints could be big improvers next year with the changes made to the coaches box. I could be wrong but it looks like you can already see the impact the new coaches are having with the drafting of several mature age players who look to have clear AFL attributes.

 

[maanco]

Contested position number's:

I think its kind of telling we were last in the contest for contested possessions per game. In 2017 we were 12th.
Yeah i know they aren't the be all and end all, but being last can't be good.
Second last was Carlton , while the best included Melbourne, Collingwood and West Coast.
We are 15 contested possessions per game behind the best sides, so how are we going to make up that ground. We want 160 per game.

Webster(5) Brown(3) Geary (7)
Roberton ( 4) Carlisle( 6) Savage (4)
Sinclair (7 ) Steele (10) Newnes ( 5)
Marshall (6) Weller (4.5) Membrey (5)
Gresham (7 ) McCartin (4) Lonie (4)

Ross (10) Steven (10) Hickey (10)
Billings (6) Dunstan (10) Clark (4) Acres (9)

Total = 151.

So why did we only average around 130 or so?
Injuries meant that players like Coffield ,Clarke, Paton, Phillips , Austin got plenty of games amongst them, and didn't win much contested ball.
The good news is that ALL of them should be able to win more in future.

Looking at the team above. Take out Savage for McKenzie, he wins more of the ball and will get better. +2
Take out Newnes for Hannebery, good for a few extra cp's . ( Newnes CP's well down on previous seasons ). +4
Kent will probably get around the same contested possessions as Weller. +1
Bruce gets around 7. +1
We lose Hickey ( 10 ) for Longer (3) -7.
Overall changes +1.

Still if we can achieve an average of 150 CP's per game ,we are doing OK and our depth is much better.

Could it be our game plan that keeps these numbers down?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Had this discussion a bit last year. I think it is actually a function of selection and what the coach values. Not coach bashing here, just making a point about gamestyle.

Richo values pressure, tackling, effort (some version of 'strong in the contest'). That meant that most weeks last year we got some version of:
Geary, Brown, McKenzie
Savage, Carlisle, Gilbo

That backline was experienced and gave good effort, but couldn't hit the great wall of China with their kicking. Yet the coaches really value their contribution (hence the b+f results).
However, if you change the above to the following backline then our ball movement has a very very different feeling:

Webster, Austin, Rice
White, Carlisle, Robbo
(Coffield rotating off the bench)

Transitioning the football from defence is essential to the modern game. While we stick with the core of option 1, I agree that we are going absolutely nowhere.

Personally I would take the younger, less experienced but more skilled and more attacking option. Might be less accountable, but I would rather try to win games rather than focusing on not losing them.

In the coaches favour i think Webster has been picked nearly all the time he's available for a while now.
One of the reasons Savage was in and out of the side in 2017.
With Roberton out in 2018, Sav got a lot more game time.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Contested position number's:



Could it be our game plan that keeps these numbers down?

I doubt it, good players win contested footy, even good outside players.

I don't think our coaches have said, "kick it to your opponent " or "Back off if the other guy tries to get the ball".

Our best contested ball winner is Jack Steel , who is 43rd in the AFL.
17 teams had players who wins more contested ball per game than our best in 2018.

Hawks and Lions 1 player each.
Carlton, Bulldogs, Port , Essendon, GWS, Richmond 2.
Fremantle , North, Melbourne, Sydney, Suns 3.
West Coast, Cats 4.
Crows and Collingwood 5.

The top contested ball winners are like a who's who,
Cripps, Oliver, Mitchell, Fyfe, Cunnington , Dangerfield, Neale, Kennedy, Lyons, Viney, McRae

 

[Saintbloke]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...n/news-story/8917d27a2e0dd38c614b1807eda13830

ST KILDA

Average age: 23.90 (=12th)

Average games played: 56.7 (=14th)

Champion Data overall list rating: 14th

The numbers aren’t pretty when it comes to the Saints: Defence (16th), forward (13th) and midfield (11th). But it explains why Champion Data has deduced that Alan Richardson’s team has the fifth-worst list in the AFL. It’s possible the club’s forward line has been undersold, with a plethora of players contracting the yips in front of goal this season. What’s more, the addition of No. 4 draft pick Max King is certainly a bonus.

Rise, hold or fall? Hold



With that in mind they have West Coast Ranked 11th

We have the worse coach in the league if we're talking stats...need to pick up in that area over all else