Autopsy Eagles Post Match: We’re on to the Western Bulldogs

[Collingwoodity]

Last time we played lions at Gabba we only got up by 7 points, Lions 18.6.114 vs 19.7.121 Pies. Early days but they looked to have made more improvement then us over the off season.

Wouldn't lock in a win there yet.

I’d be confident of a win in our next three games but how both Geelong and Eagle’s midfields got on top with ease at various stages in both games is worrying.


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[Moore of the Same]

The two teams that beat us structured up defensively in a way that we couldn't break down with our usual run and carry game, that much is abundantly clear. What was more telling was how poorly the team responded to falling behind in both games. We looked panicked, resorting to desperate long kicks down the ground, contests where we were outnumbered etc. We didn't even have the patience to kick the ball around and look for loose players like last week. We played a bit like Richmond in the prelim.. got punched in the face and lost all our structure, all our flare and drive and ultimately lost the match.

 

[loki04]

Oh well footy is experimental at times - if he'd kicked 5 everyone'd be aluding a brilliant coaching move.
Midn you it doesn't seem very liekly but we dont' knwo waht's going on internally.

Thats the wrong kind of experimental.

Greenwood had plethora of tagging options, Gaff, Shuey etc. That is a safe defensive mechanism when you are losing the center battle and a bloke like Gaff is sitting defensive side alone amassing 35 possessions in space..


Good experimental options include.

Degoey to the midfield in quarters 2 and 3 when he went quiet fwd (largely due to no ball coming there).
Pendles to play a high half fwd role,
Thomas to wing.
Moore to the fwd line at the start of the last give us a real marking presence fwd try to win the game.
Small stints on ball for Elliott.
Stephenson out of the goal square.

 

[Daicos Torpedo]

Scumpires and a better team on the night...

 

[Yidaki]

Quite simple really. We were bullied. Seems to be the case against bigger bodied teams (aka Geelong). This is why Varcoe was a necessity. Not saying Varcoe would have got us the win last night, but coincidentally we have lost both games where he has been omitted.

Bucks said we were out grunted and that really is the case. No one wanted to get their hands dirty just like the Geelong game. There was no pressure after quarter time and it was literally a one way running midfield. Laziness is the appropriate word.

The eagles for mine are the clear flag favourites. Great side with great balance across the board. Plus they get their hands dirty and aren't scared for a contest. A lot of our players were just drinking their own bathwater last night. As Shpeshal Ed said, it's just a list of names on paper atm and not really a midfield. We beat Richmond because Richmond don't have big bodies around the contest. We can just get easy ball and use our one way run to score against them.

Not sure where we sit to be honest. Maybe our finishing position flattered us last year? Time will tell I guess.

 

[loki04]

Why does Brodie Grundy tap the ball to the other team all the time?

Saw him do it a bunch of time, even in uncontested contests, tapping it right to an Eagles player.

I never see him speak with the mids prior to each bounce, when I was rucking I'd always give them the heads up of what i was aiming to do and I would also instruct 1 where to place himself defensively in case I lost.

Would have our quickest player running to the space I would tap the ball too (outside the phonebox) which often led to him hitting the loose ball at pace in space and able to deliver the ball inside 50.

2nd player i would have sweep in close in case of a neutral drop.

3rd player would have them play defensively in case of a loss.

Would mix it up and have the 2nd player and quick player hold back behind me I d tap directly behind to him who would handball wide to the quick who would then launch.

Now this might be some basic strats but they are effective. Rarely do I see that type of cohesion from our center set ups.

 

[jimmy35]

Much vaunted midfield outdone on the inside and out. We look unstoppable when it’s on our terms and inept when it’s not.
Still early days and we need to start working hard to get some W’s on the board ASAP and be in a position to build in the second half of the year.

 

[Rorzza]

Yes, Buckley was on the money post match. They out worked CFC in tight and numbers to the ball. Players like Sier, Wilbur, Varcoe will improve us in those areas. Post match I think CFC would know they made a mistake dropping Varcoe. Appleby or Quaynor would have been handy on Ryan.

 

[peter9789]

I never see him speak with the mids prior to each bounce, when I was rucking I'd always give them the heads up of what i was aiming to do and I would also instruct 1 where to place himself defensively in case I lost.

Would have our quickest player running to the space I would tap the ball too (outside the phonebox) which often led to him hitting the loose ball at pace in space and able to deliver the ball inside 50.

2nd player i would have sweep in close in case of a neutral drop.

3rd player would have them play defensively in case of a loss.

Would mix it up and have the 2nd player and quick player hold back behind me I d tap directly behind to him who would handball wide to the quick who would then launch.

Now this might be some basic strats but they are effective. Rarely do I see that type of cohesion from our center set ups.

Like many, I’ve felt the need to have a permanent ruck coach. I know we have Rocca but he never rucked.

A decent ruck coach would definitely improve strategy and cohesion in this situation.


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[Albert Parker]

The mix is all wrong guys. Nothing more, nothing less. No one alive believes Collingwood dont have the talent to beat us, but yesterday it really felt like the midfield mix was all wrong.

Beams came into the club im assuming to win clearances but seems to be spending time up forward way too much. Greenwood came in to lay tackles and win the in and under so is put on a flank? Stephenson is pushed up the ground when he is clearly a goalkicker. Not everyone is meant to be a midfielder. If I was Bucks id make the following changes

- Move Pendlebury to HBF permanently instead of Aish
- Move Roughead out of defense and shorten the defense up. A bit of play when Darcy Moore ran off half back and commentators mentioned they liked that he did it. I was more like, "Why is he doing it, surely someone else should be doing that job"
- Move Stephenson back to deepest small forward and force Jamie Elliot up the ground more.
- Leave Mihocheck closer to goal and Mason Cox further up the ground
- Get Roughead to do the 2nd ruck role.
- More centre square time for J.Thomas, Mayne and Sier

The team should be

FB: Howe, Moore, Maynard
HB: Crisp, Langdon, Pendlebury
C: Sidebottom, Treloar, Phillips
HF: Elliot, Cox, Varcoe
FF: Stephenson, Mihocek, DeGoey
R: Grundy, Beams, Adams
I/C: Sier, Mayne, Roughead, J.Thomas

I'm sympathetic to this sentiment. Phillips and Greenwood in the forward line is a joke. Neither will consistently hit the scoreboard and neither offers the tackling, harassing and poise that Varcoe does.

But the backline you've named does not match up adequately to the Kennedy, Darling, Vardy, Allen combination.

 

[NeverWobble]

A bit flat about last night’s performance. West Coast just seemed to have our measure and we missed our opportunities to really put some pressure on.
Apologies to Varcoe for agreeing to leave him out. Missed him.

 

[Kilmo]

Last time we played lions at Gabba we only got up by 7 points, Lions 18.6.114 vs 19.7.121 Pies. Early days but they looked to have made more improvement then us over the off season.

Wouldn't lock in a win there yet.

Yep two danger games coming up

 

[Quicky]

I never see him speak with the mids prior to each bounce, when I was rucking I'd always give them the heads up of what i was aiming to do and I would also instruct 1 where to place himself defensively in case I lost.

Would have our quickest player running to the space I would tap the ball too (outside the phonebox) which often led to him hitting the loose ball at pace in space and able to deliver the ball inside 50.

2nd player i would have sweep in close in case of a neutral drop.

3rd player would have them play defensively in case of a loss.

Would mix it up and have the 2nd player and quick player hold back behind me I d tap directly behind to him who would handball wide to the quick who would then launch.

Now this might be some basic strats but they are effective. Rarely do I see that type of cohesion from our center set ups.

We seem to have 1 for the nuetral drop and 2 running on in space. We often gamble on winning the clearance and get exposed when we don't. It's why Greenwood helped our structure last week. He positions defensively. This week we were relying on the wingers coming in from the defensive side which doesn't work if the opposition gets a quick clearance. At least that's how it seemed to me.

 

[Jonno94]

Treloar, Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Beams in the same midfield looks disastrous so far. Sier needs to find form because we have too many uncontested players in the same midfield right now. There is no grunt other than Adams.

Adams, Sier, Beams and De Goey needs to be the centre square setup from now on. Play Pendlebury on a wing and Treloar up forward.

 

[bucksisbest]

Re Centre square.clearances, I find it is also problematic how programmed we seem to be to handball laterally or backwards when we do win it. Often ends in either a turn over of posession because the pass is not really there and the opposition are breathing down our necks, or we have to then go via the cape.

I always think first option should be via foot and a deep forward entry in those situations unless something blinding offers itself up to you. Having De Goey down there and Cox to create a spill also speaks to its potential value.

I dont mind using the footvall to move a side around and get them out of shape, but our in tight use makes little sense to me.

 

[danielnajdek]

So Howe gets pinged for a 50 for a little hold whilst WC constantly creep over the mark and umps completely ignore it.

 

[loki04]

So Howe gets pinged for a 50 for a little hold whilst WC constantly creep over the mark and umps completely ignore it.

WC were holding our players all night after marks literally grabbing them into wrestling moves or holding their legs not a single 50m, Howe did a 2 second grab and whistle 50m coincidentally right when we had momentum. Momentum killer goals from umpires are the worst kind.

 

[loki04]

Re Centre square.clearances, I find it is also problematic how programmed we seem to be to handball laterally or backwards when we do win it. Often ends in either a turn over of posession because the pass is not really there and the opposition are breathing down our necks, or we have to then go via the cape.

I always think first option should be via foot and a deep forward entry in those situations unless something blinding offers itself up to you. Having De Goey down there and Cox to create a spill also speaks to its potential value.

I dont mind using the footvall to move a side around and get them out of shape, but our in tight use makes little sense to me.

Alot of that comes down to how close our mids get to one another the handball is never to someone wide it is usually to someone only 1m away. If they can tackle you and you dish off to a flat footed person within a meter chances are they can get them too or at the least put them under pressure.

 

[danielnajdek]

WC were holding our players all night after marks literally grabbing them into wrestling moves or holding their legs not a single 50m, Howe did a 2 second grab and whistle 50m coincidentally right when we had momentum. Momentum killer goals from umpires are the worst kind.

Yep we actually started to get on top and getting the crowd into it. Then the umps decide to pay a stupid 50 and they end up getting a goal from it. Was game over after that.

 

[sr36]

WC were holding our players all night after marks literally grabbing them into wrestling moves or holding their legs not a single 50m, Howe did a 2 second grab and whistle 50m coincidentally right when we had momentum. Momentum killer goals from umpires are the worst kind.

They do it intelligently. They do it before there is any separation, rather than reaching out like Howe did.

 

[danielnajdek]

They do it intelligently. They do it before there is any separation, rather than reaching out like Howe did.

Perhaps but you seriously can't agree that was worthy of a 50.

 

[sr36]

Perhaps but you seriously can't agree that was worthy of a 50.

No. But it was dumb.

 

[anshell]

On the footy show this morning they showed four instances where the eagles were just harder at the ball than us,which led directly to four goals.They were definitely harder at the contest than us,and the second quarter was a disaster for us.The game was won and lost in that quarter.We lost all self belief after they took control in that quarter.

 

[Swooper18]

After a promising start in the first term, Collingwood squandered their momentum over the following three quarters to fail comfortably against the reigning premiers West Coast. The Magpies attempted to replicate the style of play that the Eagles like to play, which is an uncontested, high-possession and marking game which became less effective as the game wore on.

Collingwood had a remarkable number of stats in their favour without getting the points. The Woods were +52 for disposals (384 - 332), +53 for handballs (165 - 112), contested possessions were +8 (134 - 126), uncontested possessions were won by a differential of +40 (246 - 206), while marks had a differential of +18 (115 - 97), with further gains in Contested Marks by +4 (14 - 10), +14 for uncontested marks (101 - 87), and Marks Inside 50 were +2 (14 - 12). Hit-outs were won by +23 (42 - 19), stoppage clearances were +3 (25 - 22), while tackles had a positive differential of +3 (41 - 38), and Tackles Inside 50 had a positive differential of +2 (9 - 7). West Coast had their advantages with centre clearances by +3 (15 - 12), kicks by +1 (220 - 219), and Inside 50’s by +8 (50 - 42). Clearances were even (37 each).

Dayne Beams (26 disposals @ 69%, 202 metres gained, 8 contested possessions, 18 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 4 marks, 6 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 2 Inside 50’s, 2 Rebound 50’s & 1 goal) started well, before dropping off. Taylor Adams (26 disposals @ 65%, 369 metres gained, 10 contested possessions, 16 uncontested possessions, 4 marks, 3 goal assists, 6 score involvements, 4 clearances, 3 centre clearances & 7 Inside 50’s) had a solid return in his first game of the season. Adam Treloar (25 disposals @ 64%, 230 metres gained, 9 contested possessions, 16 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions,8 marks, 2 tackles, 6 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 Inside 50’s & 2 goals) had an imposing second term with two majors, but was fairly quiet outside of that quarter. Steele Sidebottom (25 disposals @ 88%, 352 metres gained, 9 contested possessions, 16 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 7 marks, 4 tackles, 3 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances, 2 Inside 50’s, 4 Rebound 50’s & 1 goal) had a solid second half after a slow start. Chris Mayne (24 disposals @ 75%, 241 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 5 intercept possessions, 8 marks, 2 tackles, 8 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances & 2 Inside 50’s) played his role. Brodie Grundy (22 disposals @ 73%, 13 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 40 hit-outs, 4 marks, 5 tackles, 4 score involvements, 11 clearances, 5 centre clearances, 6 stoppage clearances & 2 Rebound 50’s) was the only player in the midfield group that cleared the ball regularly, while Scott Pendlebury (21 disposals @ 81%, 256 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 6 marks, 3 tackles, 4 score involvements, 4 clearances, 3 stoppage clearances & 6 Inside 50’s) got the footy forward quite a lot with a below-average number of disposals.

Brayden Maynard (23 disposals @ 83%, 342 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 17 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 11 marks, 4 tackles, 5 score involvements, 2 clearances & 3 Inside 50’s) was Collingwood’s most prolific defender for the evening. James Aish (21 disposals @ 76%, 156 metres gained, 2 contested possessions, 19 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 6 marks, 2 score involvements & 5 Rebound 50’s) found the footy, without using it productively. Jeremy Howe (21 disposals @ 90%, 328 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 14 uncontested possessions, 9 intercept possessions, 7 marks, 2 Contested Marks, 7 score involvements & 7 Rebound 50’s) competed well at marking contests, and contributed to the team’s ball movement on transition. Tom Langdon (19 disposals @ 95%, 126 metres gained, 3 contested possessions, 16 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 6 marks & 4 score involvements) had a mellow game and Darcy Moore (17 disposals @ 88%, 284 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 12 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 6 marks, 3 tackles, 2 score involvements, 2 Inside 50’s & 3 Rebound 50’s) managed to overcome an ankle injury to play out the game.

Jordan De Goey (18 disposals @ 67%, 353 metres gained, 9 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 7 marks, 3 Marks Inside 50, 3 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 7 score involvements & 3 goals) was the only scoring threat for the majority of the game, especially in the first term when he started like a house on fire as did the team. Brody Mihocek (13 disposals @ 77%, 279 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 8 uncontested possessions, 9 marks, 2 Contested Marks, 2 Marks Inside 50, 2 score involvements & 1 goal) provided a secondary target on an otherwise dour night. No other forwards worthy of a mention.
Collingwood’s next game will be on April 12 against the Western Bulldogs at the MCG. More tackling, more clearances and Inside 50’s from the midfield division will be required to ensure that the contest is made into a forward-half game that is played on Collingwood’s terms.

 

[Axl the great]

They beat us the same way the last 4 times we have played. They cut off our scoring, they are happy to concede a 15 metre pass but not more than that. Any overlapping kicks are always contested.
Watching it live one thing that stood out was the energy difference between the two midfields.
WC made a real effort to hand ball on the move and they seperated really well into damaging spots, meanwhile our Mids, yet again hand ball back sideways all while flat footed!and going nowhere.
Some players are also on the block, JT is struggling, I do feel for him though, he is by nature a clearance mid playing a no mans land role.
Elliott did not work nearly hard enough last night except the last quarter, Aish has terrible disposal but shows guts so im a bit more forgiving on him, Sidebottom needs to stop looking for cheap kicks and Stephenson is in horrible form, he looks like he has no defined role and utterly confused.