Scape Goat The Cam Guthrie Echo Chamber

[Mr Blicavs]

He didn't tag O'Meara yesterday. He was on him for a decent amount of the time but it wasn't a hard tag. For example in the first quarter it was about 50/50 him and Menegola who were matched up with O'Meara.

You Sir are 100% correct
Its hilarious to see others, on other threads, accrediting the work done on OMeara to Guthrie.
Guthrie spent the majority of the game on Henderson, and Henderson had a career best game.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I don't really understand the hate for this Cam TBH. Played well yesterday, that's undeniable.

I thought he was played out of position down back the last couple of years, but it could have been really beneficial for him. Having a tagger, especially one who can find the ball themselves is still an important weapon to have. In the past 2-3 years we have tried Blitz, Menners and Scooter in that role with mixed success. Blitz is now an important part of our back line, Scooter can't get on the park and I dont think it is where Menengola plays best. Cam is now 1-0 this year in that role, having beaten O'Meara comprehensively.

Comprehensively? Where do yous get this shit?
F**k maybe we should bring back Taylor Hunt.

 

[Spazz Cat]

No he wasn't. Guthrie plays a key defensive role for the team and is one of the reasons our bad clearances early didn't turn into easy escapes for them because his pressure was excellent. Constable played as an inside accumulator and did well in the first 3 weeks but wasn't even in our couple of ball winning mids in any of those games. And let's be honest if Guthrie had played like Constable did in week 4 there would be calls to banish him from the country let alone the AFL team.

Guthrie is an important member of our midfield because his strengths make us vastly better balanced. Constable is an inside mid who's not in our best 4 or 5 in that area right now but deserves opportunities to develop and improve and may be best 22 depending on injuries, opponents, form and improvement. That's perfectly fine for a second year inside mid and he's progressing well but right now he's well behind Guthrie in value to the team. Frankly anyone even putting those two on the same level can only be doing it based on blindness to the excellent things Guthrie does while looking through massively rose tinted glasses at constable's games so far.

Yeah right. They've played about the same. So far Constable a bit better. Pressure included.
If Cam is the better option because of his experience so be it. Don't pretend its cause of different roles. Anything or to anyone Cam did defensively yesterday didn't happen. And if it did it certainly wasn't great.

 

[Spazz Cat]

You Sir are 100% correct
Its hilarious to see others, on other threads, accrediting the work done on OMeara to Guthrie.
Guthrie spent the majority of the game on Henderson, and Henderson had a career best game.

He did! Even after quarter time it was possibly his best performance. People are just making shit up.
Wow Cam Guthrie kept pick 80 in the rookie draft Henderson to a career best game!
What a Stirling effort! Best 22 forever.

 

[scottydeewah]

Comprehensively? Where do yous get this shit?

O'Meara is considered both an A grader and the key player in the Hawthorn midfield. Cam went head to head with him in a "tagging" type role. O'Meara had very little impact on the day, had 26 with 7-8 clangers. The commentators talked a couple of times about the job Cam was doing on O'Meara and it was pretty obvious to most of us watching the game. Cam played better than the player he went head to head with, who is a gun footballer.

How can you not be happy with that? What did you expect from him on the weekend? 22 good touches and beat his man. You may not like his entire body of work, but trying to argue that he wasn't good on the weekend makes you look foolish.

 

[scottydeewah]

He did! Even after quarter time it was possibly his best performance. People are just making shit up.
Wow Cam Guthrie kept pick 80 in the rookie draft Henderson to a career best game!
What a Stirling effort! Best 22 forever.

May want to ask why CD and the commentators thought they were playing on each other then?!

 

[Spazz Cat]

O'Meara is considered both an A grader and the key player in the Hawthorn midfield. Cam went head to head with him in a "tagging" type role. O'Meara had very little impact on the day, had 26 with 7-8 clangers. The commentators talked a couple of times about the job Cam was doing on O'Meara and it was pretty obvious to most of us watching the game. Cam played better than the player he went head to head with, who is a gun footballer.

How can you not be happy with that? What did you expect from him on the weekend? 22 good touches and beat his man. You may not like his entire body of work, but trying to argue that he wasn't good on the weekend makes you look foolish.

No he didn't. Look Guthrie played allright.
He did not play better than Jaeger Omeara and he didn't comprehensively beat anyone.
I also watched the game and saw Guthrie mind Henderson very closely in much of the second and third and was ok.
Saw him mind Omeara in parts of the 3rd and last and was poor.
Comprehensively beat him is one of those great BF moments up there with "Menzel isn't injury prone" and "playing no ruck against Nic Nat is genius"

 

[David the Cat]

You can ridicule Guthrie all you like but his performance yesterday was good and he deserves his selection next week..which is inevitable...

Only one of the anti-guthrie brigade has had the substance to stand up and say,.... yes, he played well...better than I expected...deserved his spot....he knows who he is...

The rest are finding refuge is claiming Guthrie responsible for O'Meara's clearances and /or Henderson's performance...

Fact is he played well and made a positive and effective contribution and is a dead set certainty to play next week, and probably beyond based on that performance..

 

[Spazz Cat]

You can ridicule Guthrie all you like but his performance yesterday was good and he deserves his selection next week..which is inevitable...

Only one of the anti-guthrie brigade has had the substance to stand up and say,.... yes, he played well...better than I expected...deserved his spot....he knows who he is...

The rest are finding refuge is claiming Guthrie responsible for O'Meara's clearances and /or Henderson's performance...

Fact is he played well and made a positive and effective contribution and is a dead set certainty to play next week, and probably beyond based on that performance..

I reckon he played allright. Just don't think he comprehensively beat his opponents or was that much greater than the first year player he replaced.
Do you????

 

[David the Cat]

We dont know how well the player he replaced ( if in fact that is so) would have played..thats simply a subjective projection...I could say he played better than Constable would have and you can say the opposite....unprovable supposition by both of us...

Lets stick with reality...he played well and will be selected next week and deserves to be so...searching for faults ( various faults have been promulgated ) by those who vilified him prior to the game indicates to me he did ok...

One thing we can agree on....he needs to continue to contribute as he did yesterday....and improve on his disposal efficiency which, for his first game of the year, was to be expected. Similar poor DE was seen in the opening game of the season by our stars ( and Collingwoods),..... efficiency that has improve markedly as the season has progressed....

Hopefully we will see similar improvement from Guthrie as he settles in to the new season.

 

[Spazz Cat]

We dont know how well the player he replaced ( if in fact that is so) would have played..thats simply a subjective projection...I could say he played better than Constable would have and you can say the opposite....unprovable supposition by both of us...

Lets stick with reality...he played well and will be selected next week and deserves to be so...searching for faults ( various faults have been promulgated ) by those who vilified him prior to the game indicates to me he did ok...

One thing we can agree on....he needs to continue to contribute as he did yesterday....and improve on his disposal efficiency which, for his first game of the year, was to be expected. Similar poor DE was seen in the opening game of the season by our stars ( and Collingwoods),..... efficiency that has improve markedly as the season has progressed....

Hopefully we will see similar improvement from Guthrie as he settles in to the new season.

The thing is I am sticking with reality. I'm the ONLY person on the board who's defended his DE% knowing it's simply untrue. And I'm the ONLY person who bought up the one exceptional thing he did.
I being objective not believing crap like beating Hawthorns 2 best mids or that he's that far ahead of anyone outside the 22. On that performance anyway.
For a 26 yo 140 game player that is the very minimum performance to keep out other players.

 

[Turbocat]

You can ridicule Guthrie all you like but his performance yesterday was good and he deserves his selection next week..which is inevitable...

Only one of the anti-guthrie brigade has had the substance to stand up and say,.... yes, he played well...better than I expected...deserved his spot....he knows who he is...

The rest are finding refuge is claiming Guthrie responsible for O'Meara's clearances and /or Henderson's performance...

Fact is he played well and made a positive and effective contribution and is a dead set certainty to play next week, and probably beyond based on that performance..

I think im Switzerland on Guthrie... he did some good things.. he looked to be on Henderson at some stage.. not sure if that was after 1/4 time.
He did what id say he should have done ..didnt really do anything too distinctive but he didn't play as bad as some thought he would

 

[FredLeDeux]

May want to ask why CD and the commentators thought they were playing on each other then?!

As, of course, did the people who actually watched the game.
But they are not going to ask that question, it doesn't fit their pre-judged narratives.

 

[Footy Smarts]

You Sir are 100% correct
Its hilarious to see others, on other threads, accrediting the work done on OMeara to Guthrie.
Guthrie spent the majority of the game on Henderson, and Henderson had a career best game.

What is this crap? He was rarely on Henderson and in the first quarter when Henderson dominated it was Selwood on him for almost the entire time.

Maybe everyone could actually credit Guthrie with what he did rather than trying to make shit up on both sides? He didn't tag O'Meara but he did have a good game overall.

 

[Spazz Cat]

As, of course, did the people who actually watched the game.
But they are not going to ask that question, it doesn't fit their pre-judged narratives.

Ok mate. I'll take what BT said over what everyone actually saw or what actually happened. Your right!
What a tagging job. Gave him nothing. Bet ya Jaeger's sore today.
15:40 in. Why did we get rid of Taylor Hunt anyway.

 

[Spazz Cat]

What is this crap? He was rarely on Henderson and in the first quarter when Henderson dominated it was Selwood on him for almost the entire time.

Maybe everyone could actually credit Guthrie with what he did rather than trying to make shit up on both sides? He didn't tag O'Meara but he did have a good game overall.

He went to Henderson in the second and third quarter and quelled him somewhat. I saw it. Watch the replay, he's right on him.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

What is this crap? He was rarely on Henderson and in the first quarter when Henderson dominated it was Selwood on him for almost the entire time.

Maybe everyone could actually credit Guthrie with what he did rather than trying to make shit up on both sides? He didn't tag O'Meara but he did have a good game overall.

Youre right about one thing... he barely went near Henderson.... he couldnt. He was his opponent for the majority of the game... no matter how much you dont want it to be true.

 

[scottydeewah]

I don't know how these stats suggest a comprehensive 1 on 1 defeat, could you explain in more detail please?

Cam didn't have a clanger and had a number of possessions in chains which were important to us gaining possession and moving forward with purpose. O'Meara had 8 clangers and 2-3 ineffective disposals. He wasn't able to break free, in space and carve us to pieces.

That is what happened. That is what I saw. That is what the stats show - if you read them in more detail - and that is what the commentators (on radio and TV) spoke about.

Again. You can say his 2018, 2017, 2016, etc were bad. But on current 2019 form he had a good day, first game back, in a big game, MCG against the f***ing Hawks. ANY player who plays well - and he did - against those campaigners, gets another game and should be afforded a week without the idiocy of the of the flogs on this board.

 

[scottydeewah]

campaigners

lol - good work bots!

 

[PatrickBateman]

Cam didn't have a clanger and had a number of possessions in chains which were important to us turning the ball over and moving forward with puropose. O'Meara had 8 clangers and 2-3 ineffective disposals. He wasn't able to break free, in space and carve us to pieces.

O'Meara's performance wasn't dissimilar to any of his so far in 2019. He hasn't 'cut any side to pieces'. He was scratchy last year too, 30+ disposals just 3 out of 21 games. Not known for hurting opposition with effectiveness either. Was only followed yesterday cause their midfield is rubbish atm.

But on current 2019 form he had a good day, first game back, in a big game, MCG against the f***ing Hawks. ANY player who plays well - and he did - against those campaigners, gets another game and should be afforded a week without the idiocy of the of the flogs on this board.

1 game isn't form. Hawthorn in their current configuration are a bottom 6 side IMO. Their midfield is worse than that, arguably the worst in the league. He needs more games.

I've never said he doesn't deserve another game, I guess that means I'm not one of the flogs you're talking about - not that I care. Guthrie to me is always going to be carried if he's in a midfield, that's all he's shown from day one. He's one dimensional, the least competitive guy in there at any given time, no physicality, a waste of space when the game gets real hot - he just stands and watches. Duncan is just as soft, I give him a pass because he's a MUCH better user of it, much more creative and smarter as a player.

I don't think in terms of individuals, nor do I get attached to them. I want the GFC to build a side that can win a premiership. I don't see Guthrie in such a midfield, as I said, I think he's carried by others. I'd rather see the youngsters reach their potential with more games rather than rolling out a guy again and again who we know will never get any better.

 

[Warhorse]

Hawks had a massive run on when Guthrie and Atkins were in the middle in the last quarter. Lucky their ruck went down

 

[CatFan79]

For a 26 yo 140 game player that is the very minimum performance to keep out other players.

Exactly.. But based on recent history that represents his ceiling in regards to contribution.

Hawks had a massive run on when Guthrie and Atkins were in the middle in the last quarter. Lucky their ruck went down

When the heat is on around the stoppages Guthrie is a liability. When do you EVER see him compete with others to win a hard ball, and actually win it.

 

[Down at K Park]

Exactly.. But based on recent history that represents his ceiling in regards to contribution.



When the heat is on around the stoppages Guthrie is a liability. When do you EVER see him compete with others to win a hard ball, and actually win it.

I just saw him sitting a metre or 2 behind the area, letting others do the hard work.

 

[barmy44]

which one of you wise-guys edited his 'playing career' section on wikipedia?

 

[Footy Smarts]

When the heat is on around the stoppages Guthrie is a liability. When do you EVER see him compete with others to win a hard ball, and actually win it.

Yep you never see it. It definitely didn't happen in the biggest centre clearance of the last quarter when the Hawks were back within 3 goals, the ball spilt to the wing and he put his head over the ball, took it cleanly and drew the high free kick. No that definitely didn't happen just yesterday...