This. Stop panicking and move on. We won. We aren't a great side. We have a handful of great players, a few solid ones and a heap of battlers. We aren't a finals side. As long as we start winning these winnable games, with the odd surprise on the way, I'll be happy.
Autopsy Bulldogs 103 - Carlton 100. A win, but a loss at the same time?
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This. Stop panicking and move on. We won. We aren't a great side. We have a handful of great players, a few solid ones and a heap of battlers. We aren't a finals side. As long as we start winning these winnable games, with the odd surprise on the way, I'll be happy.
- Jan 13, 2004
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Carlton’s complaining about the umpiring is laughable.
That free kick to Curnow just before half time? That last holding the ball decision?
We helped them along the way with abysmal turnovers but the umpires helped Carlton get back in it.
That free kick to Curnow just before half time? That last holding the ball decision?
We helped them along the way with abysmal turnovers but the umpires helped Carlton get back in it.
Mattie2016
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I am happy. Thought it was a great contest with a gun midfield rotation down and had some enormous growth from Lipinski and English. Dunkley, Macrae, Bontempelli, Suckling and Daniel showed their class, while Hunter, JJ and Wood showed their experience at critical junctions to help us get across the line against an underrated team.
With Wallis, Morris and Gowers to return shortly, Schache, Richards and West pressing for selection and Jong an unknown quantity, there is much to like and I have faith that there are great times ahead.
Mattie2016
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What did the coach do wrong? What would you have done differently. Would really like to hear specifics here or a retraction.
Maybe you're the one with serious issues for being such a sour puss? 4 points is 4 points. The good teams don't always flog the bad teams. Pies limped over the line against the Blues. Geelong barely scraped a win against the Roos. I know Braybrook is a pretty dodgy place and all, but lighten up a bit.
- Jan 13, 2004
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The only positives I can find tonight are that it was Dunkley, English, Smith (last quarter), Lipinski and Bont- all youngens (it’s easy to forget Bont is still young) - all these players were the ones that helped us over the line.
Our turnovers in the backline were appalling, more than helped them get back into it.
Also, although Suckling was crucial late in the 3rd with getting us back in it, that last shot on goal was unbelievably awful.
I’d have been apoplectic if we’d lost that, so thankfully we did.
Still, we’re a long, long way off it.
Our turnovers in the backline were appalling, more than helped them get back into it.
Also, although Suckling was crucial late in the 3rd with getting us back in it, that last shot on goal was unbelievably awful.
I’d have been apoplectic if we’d lost that, so thankfully we did.
Still, we’re a long, long way off it.
- Oct 6, 2006
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PERSONALY im happy we won.
should have we by over 50 points ? yes
should have let carlton back in the game twice ? no
the signs are their. We have alot of weapons and a very very raw young team. we are not as far away from the top 8 as what everyone may think.
Dunkley fast becoming dogs 3rd best player. similar player to cripps.
happy with lapinski. bevo made him earn his spot and stuck to it.
Naughton gets nothing up forward from the umps. once he learns how to get umpires attention like good forwards do he will be better for it. big upside.
mclean, dale way off it atm.
and Richardson gave the dogs nothing tonight as a commentator. blue eyed all game it done my head in.
Dont expect us to make finals this year but once this young team learns tobe more ruthless and more adaptable to knowing when to go hard and when to steady the ship we will be fine. that comes with experiance.
Finally PAITAINTS
should have we by over 50 points ? yes
should have let carlton back in the game twice ? no
the signs are their. We have alot of weapons and a very very raw young team. we are not as far away from the top 8 as what everyone may think.
Dunkley fast becoming dogs 3rd best player. similar player to cripps.
happy with lapinski. bevo made him earn his spot and stuck to it.
Naughton gets nothing up forward from the umps. once he learns how to get umpires attention like good forwards do he will be better for it. big upside.
mclean, dale way off it atm.
and Richardson gave the dogs nothing tonight as a commentator. blue eyed all game it done my head in.
Dont expect us to make finals this year but once this young team learns tobe more ruthless and more adaptable to knowing when to go hard and when to steady the ship we will be fine. that comes with experiance.
Finally PAITAINTS
Surprised you mentioned this. AFL players spray the bowl kicking for goal more than someone who's eaten a dodgy vindaloo.
Suckers had a great game and has been our most underrated player for a looooong time.
Yes we were much much better than them, but we kept gifting them easy goals and the umpires just reacted to the crowd and gave them crucial kicks.
That said our big weakness was in the air which caused us to stuff round with the ball which caused many turn overs. It also meant we aimed for the pockets going forward- what a dismal strategy.
If we could snag Darling or even McKay ( he's going to be good regardless of his performance tonight) we would be a much better team.
Ps why doesn't Suckling or Williamskick out? Daniel isn't a long enough kick.
- Jan 13, 2004
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Again I thought he was quite good tonight, especially late in the third.
But that shot - he had to nail it.
Most penetrating kick in the side, 30 out and kicks it to an opposition player in the goal square.
We went with Lloyd, Smith and Dunkley at one stage during their first run. I bet Cripps s**t himself when he saw Sam Lloyd rolling in. Carlton got the clearance fairly easily. What a shock.
Cordy can’t defend accountably against anyone that isn’t also built like McLovin. He’s the star pupil at the Michael Talia & Fletcher Roberts School for Key Defenders that Move Themselves out of an Accidentally Obtained Good Position. The chest mark Curnow took in the last was in the spot Cordy was standing 2 seconds before, until he turned his back on the ball, stepped away from the drop zone in order to fail at putting body on Curnow, then turned in a full circle in time to watch Curnow mark the ball. Copping 7 goals against an out of form Tier C KPF is just the brown icing on the butt mud cake Cordy has cooked up this year. Sending him forward would just be a piss-take.
That being said, Curnow must have thought it was Christmas tonight with some of the gifts he was given by the umpires.
I’m a big fan of Tim English and he proves the calls to drop him earlier in the year more laughable every week. But he could be twice the player if he didn’t spend so much of the game faffing about in the least dangerous positions imaginable. When you’re 206cm, you don’t stand around 20m from the contest waiting for the ball to be kicked over your head. That mark he took in the last was brilliant and frustrating at the same time, because he could be in that position far more often.
Dale being played deep forward was brilliant. He actually made me miss Gowers, somehow. Hopefully we can kill Dale’s form so that Casper McLean has another ineffectual ghost to partner with in the forward line. Poor Toby, how he must feel seeing players zigged and zagged all over the field while he’s the one player Bev refuses to move anywhere, despite desperately needing a change. If he doesn’t get Libba’s midfield rotation I’ll spew on Terry Wallace.
Caleb had one of those games where he took more off the table than he put on. He turned the usual goal that he gifts the opposition into 2-4 tonight. I’ve never seen a player so adept at starting with limited options, running in several circles until there are no options, then firing off a pinpoint kick to an opposition player. There’s nothing wrong with kicking long to the boundary when you get yourself in some sticky s**t, mate. I sighed in relief when I saw JJ start taking kick outs and belting them long, at least when that inevitably went pear shaped it took them two kicks to put another goal past us, instead of one.
Bont is incredible. The olive oil was flowing in that first half. I’m happy for him that we got the win. Let he who proclaim Cripps superior cast himself into a vat of scalding extra virgin. And Dunkley is a gem and I’ll never understand why without fail he gets lumped into the chat on the trade thread every week. Lip is nice too.
How inevitable did the flat start to the third quarter feel? I would have put a substantial sum on that happening, if I were able. We’re so easy to read.
All in all, the annoying and frustrating things are the fresher in my mind, but it’s still a 47 point tunrnaround on Rd 5 and arguably Carlton played better tonight than they did then. They knocked over a finals bound team last week and gave Collingwood a real scare. So it’s not all doom and gloom. I’ll be looking for the good stuff when I watch the replay.
I’m assuming anyone whingeing about security wasn’t actually at the game tonight, because it was literally no different to every other game I’ve ever been to there. Having to venture out from my safe space on level 2 into the holding pens of the proletariat on level 3, there were plenty of people going absolutely berserk in my area and all around, with nary a security guard to be seen. Maybe it was a different story elsewhere, but sure didn’t look like it.
We gave Collingwood a run last time, so next week will be a good litmus. Need to get the selection right though.
- Jan 13, 2004
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Watching the replay, Caleb’s turnovers were absolutely horrendous.
- Aug 16, 2009
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Obviously he did nothing wrong. Picks an undersized team and we won convincingly against a super competitive cellar dweller.
I get it that coaches have self belief and are never wrong, pick the same team next week as last time vs pies, height is an overrated discriminator in football.
I don't care how it happened, we went into that game sitting in the bottom 4. When you're bottom 4, you take any win no matter how unattractive it may be.
Besides, I'll take a hideous win over a 2nd loss in a season to that tragic club every time.
Lots to work on but that hasn't suddenly appeared from nowhere.
Besides, I'll take a hideous win over a 2nd loss in a season to that tragic club every time.
Lots to work on but that hasn't suddenly appeared from nowhere.
- Sep 7, 2015
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I strongly disagree that the list is good enough. Needs two more QUALITY talls and some more mature on-field leaders. Our backline and forward line are both probably the worst in the league regardless of who we select or dont select. The only reason we win games is because of our elite young midfielders. Whether or not Bevo shares the blame for our list management I dont know, nor do I care. Im not interested in pointing fingers when I don't have all the facts. But I strongly doubt any coach would be getting better results with the list in its current state.
Claythesmiths
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Round 13 - Charlie Curnow 7.1. Conceded 100 points.
Round 11 - Jack Darling 6.1, Josh Kennedy 3.2 & Jake Waterman 3.0. Conceded 133 points.
Round 10 - Ben Brown 3.1, Nick Larkey 3.0 & Mason Wood 3.0. Conceded 115 points.
Round 9 - Tom Hawkins 4.0 & Darcy Fort 3.0. Conceded 133 points.
Four games in a row we've conceded 100 points or more, and four games in a row we've let key forwards dominate us. What's more, there's a consistent trend for us to concede high percentage shots at goal to key forwards. Notice those key forwards combined have kicked 34.5. How many of those shots were from marks and free kicks 20m from goal? A lot. We need to completely revamp our defence because clearly it is not working how it is at the moment. At this point, given our obvious defensive defencies, I think we really need to consider sending Naughton back to defence and bringing Schache in to play forward. I would also consider giving Gardner a go in defence, having said that his performances so far are pretty indicative of him being a very ordinary and limited player, who is probably not AFL standard at this point. Roberts and Le. Young have hardly set the world on fire in their respective matches so far this season, so I'm not sure how much impact bringing one or both of them in could have.
The most annoying thing is, I'm sure Bevo knows Naughton needs to go back to defence in the short-term, but Bevo never seems to care about the short-term when he has a long-term vision.
Round 11 - Jack Darling 6.1, Josh Kennedy 3.2 & Jake Waterman 3.0. Conceded 133 points.
Round 10 - Ben Brown 3.1, Nick Larkey 3.0 & Mason Wood 3.0. Conceded 115 points.
Round 9 - Tom Hawkins 4.0 & Darcy Fort 3.0. Conceded 133 points.
Four games in a row we've conceded 100 points or more, and four games in a row we've let key forwards dominate us. What's more, there's a consistent trend for us to concede high percentage shots at goal to key forwards. Notice those key forwards combined have kicked 34.5. How many of those shots were from marks and free kicks 20m from goal? A lot. We need to completely revamp our defence because clearly it is not working how it is at the moment. At this point, given our obvious defensive defencies, I think we really need to consider sending Naughton back to defence and bringing Schache in to play forward. I would also consider giving Gardner a go in defence, having said that his performances so far are pretty indicative of him being a very ordinary and limited player, who is probably not AFL standard at this point. Roberts and Le. Young have hardly set the world on fire in their respective matches so far this season, so I'm not sure how much impact bringing one or both of them in could have.
The most annoying thing is, I'm sure Bevo knows Naughton needs to go back to defence in the short-term, but Bevo never seems to care about the short-term when he has a long-term vision.
Ridley This
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Difficult team to watch at the moment, but it fairly straight forward why.
We consciously built a team which removed the need for a dominate ruckmen or traditional key position hulks, in favor of highly organize runners who had the tank to play a team smothering at both ends. That tactic won us a premiership, with a unit which on paper looks kinda bonkers, even today.
The introduction of the 6-6-6 rule is expressly designed to address that very trend in football, ie, giving good players a fairer chance to show their skills in a 1-on-1 contest. Our forward line and backline are simply not equipped with the correct, experienced players for that game style.
That means that any side can score a run of goals against us if they hammer their momentum out of center ball ups. Which is made all the easier when English is playing historically bad in the ruck. When he offers a valid contest (and he had some wonderful patches tonight) we look pretty good, because obvioulsy we get first use of the footy, but we can also flood numbers back and set up behind the ball. When we were doing that tonight, Carlton had no answer at all.
That’s probably why they are persisting so heavily with the guy, because if he comes good it solves our most pressing issue. Long game, it probably a good play, but the growing pains are downright awful.
As an aside, that Carlton team is a lot better than their win/loss would suggest. I’ve watched a lot their games over the past few seasons and they have plenty of skill and speed, just lack the mental steal to get the job done. They showed a fair bit of that tonight and it took some legitimate dig for the dogs to hold them back (even if we did play s**t for half the game).
Also, I think the loss of Libba mid-game is being heavily overlooked by some folks. He is massive to our engine room.
We consciously built a team which removed the need for a dominate ruckmen or traditional key position hulks, in favor of highly organize runners who had the tank to play a team smothering at both ends. That tactic won us a premiership, with a unit which on paper looks kinda bonkers, even today.
The introduction of the 6-6-6 rule is expressly designed to address that very trend in football, ie, giving good players a fairer chance to show their skills in a 1-on-1 contest. Our forward line and backline are simply not equipped with the correct, experienced players for that game style.
That means that any side can score a run of goals against us if they hammer their momentum out of center ball ups. Which is made all the easier when English is playing historically bad in the ruck. When he offers a valid contest (and he had some wonderful patches tonight) we look pretty good, because obvioulsy we get first use of the footy, but we can also flood numbers back and set up behind the ball. When we were doing that tonight, Carlton had no answer at all.
That’s probably why they are persisting so heavily with the guy, because if he comes good it solves our most pressing issue. Long game, it probably a good play, but the growing pains are downright awful.
As an aside, that Carlton team is a lot better than their win/loss would suggest. I’ve watched a lot their games over the past few seasons and they have plenty of skill and speed, just lack the mental steal to get the job done. They showed a fair bit of that tonight and it took some legitimate dig for the dogs to hold them back (even if we did play s**t for half the game).
Also, I think the loss of Libba mid-game is being heavily overlooked by some folks. He is massive to our engine room.
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- Sep 15, 2010
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They were but he also started many chains leading to goals with his passes into the middle. Passes no one else on our team could do. The ball is in his hands more than anyone in the backline so that is going to happen. Just need to try and minimise it/
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
Momentum swings aside, there's a lot of worry about our key position stocks at either end.
Raw disposal counts prove how our midfield bossed that game...402 to 330 touches. So it's got to be the key position players.
Gardner isn't up to it. Kicked a goal, but didn't clunk marks, and had virtually zero influence on the game. Spent sime time in the ruck and was up forward, but 0 marks and 2 touches other than his free kick goal really showing you how poor of a game he had. Schache is a confidence player who disappears and hasn't dominated VFL as we would have hoped ... but he didn't even play any as uninfluential as Gardner's today.
Who knows if Naughton's a forward. I still think we should play him down back.
Trengove is barely above fringe AFL standard, does some good things, lacks pace, and we have two and a half years left of a $500k contract.
Cordy's a third defender that should slot in, not a bloke who needs to take responsibility for when the Curnows of the world get on top of us.
When English took that strong mark to kick our second last goal of the game - he did as much in packs in our forward 50 than either of our key forwards did ... and he was rucking at the time, pushing forward, and that's saying something.
English is pure gold, we just need the tall timber to support him.
Schache's got to find a way in this team. Not that I disgaree with anybody's assessment of his game, but his upside is just so much higher than the Gardners and Trengoves of this team we just have to give him every opportunity to reach it.
Raw disposal counts prove how our midfield bossed that game...402 to 330 touches. So it's got to be the key position players.
Gardner isn't up to it. Kicked a goal, but didn't clunk marks, and had virtually zero influence on the game. Spent sime time in the ruck and was up forward, but 0 marks and 2 touches other than his free kick goal really showing you how poor of a game he had. Schache is a confidence player who disappears and hasn't dominated VFL as we would have hoped ... but he didn't even play any as uninfluential as Gardner's today.
Who knows if Naughton's a forward. I still think we should play him down back.
Trengove is barely above fringe AFL standard, does some good things, lacks pace, and we have two and a half years left of a $500k contract.
Cordy's a third defender that should slot in, not a bloke who needs to take responsibility for when the Curnows of the world get on top of us.
When English took that strong mark to kick our second last goal of the game - he did as much in packs in our forward 50 than either of our key forwards did ... and he was rucking at the time, pushing forward, and that's saying something.
English is pure gold, we just need the tall timber to support him.
Schache's got to find a way in this team. Not that I disgaree with anybody's assessment of his game, but his upside is just so much higher than the Gardners and Trengoves of this team we just have to give him every opportunity to reach it.
- Aug 1, 2008
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Simple
ff the top of my headTrengrove is not a key back - he is however a really good back up ruckman
So you play Fletcher or Lewis Young down back - neither will do worse then Trengrove
Trengrove will beat any resting ruckman Carlton uses and will match-up well on Kruizer - Trengrove is also good at winning clearances which decided this game - therefore you have a WIN
Then English doesn't need to spend all his energy on rucking and can rest up forward where he is a serious marking threat - WIN 2
English's presence up forward frees up Naughton and the Bont - WIN 3
Gardner doesn't play WIN 4
I could go on but this is a good start
_M_16_
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- Nov 26, 2009
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Often our abuse is directed towards lack of a forward line, our defenders, or the coach and tactics.
Despite how good they were today, I think our midfield needs to be roasted. Both games against the Blues, vs Fremantle, and various other quarters, they get absolutely bitched in the middle. Even when we have our best players in there, its a real worry this year when we face teams with physical or pacey midfields basically walk it out of the middle, and we take to long to stop the bleeding. Blame Bevo and tactics all you want. This is our "STAR" players, our more experienced players, in the middle, watching guys run rings around them. That's what Carlton did well in the second quarter, and how they were able to score 5 goals in junk time. We lack leadership and hardness in the middle at times. And we definitely lack an athlete. Smith is the is the only mid we have with physical size, hardness and pace. Dunkley isn't slow, but he isn't a speedster. Hunter skinny. Macrae slow. Bont looks quick due to his long strides, but isn't overly agile. Libba is a workhorse, but not athlete. Teams just turn us around and make us miss tackles or dish it out fast and spread wide knowing we lack the pace to chase.
Clearances was one part of our game we were near best in the league at. Seems to be exposed way more this year. Take our the midfield going missing and s**t defending, it should have been a blow out. Instead we put the game back on their terms.
On the good sides, we got the win. Don't know why people are sh*tty because we barely beat the Blues. Um have you seen where we are on the ladder? We are not a top four team that should beat them by 20 goals. We are barely a rung ahead of Carlton. A close win or a loss shouldn't be surprising. Carlton do have a bit of talent despite their results. Just haven't got the best out of their list/inconsistent. Have a feeling their midfield will kick our asses a few times in the years ahead with more experience.
Dunkley continues his form, pushing his case for the CS Medal.
Lipinski had Zero clangers or turnovers today. May not be pacey, but he uses the ball very well.
Despite how good they were today, I think our midfield needs to be roasted. Both games against the Blues, vs Fremantle, and various other quarters, they get absolutely bitched in the middle. Even when we have our best players in there, its a real worry this year when we face teams with physical or pacey midfields basically walk it out of the middle, and we take to long to stop the bleeding. Blame Bevo and tactics all you want. This is our "STAR" players, our more experienced players, in the middle, watching guys run rings around them. That's what Carlton did well in the second quarter, and how they were able to score 5 goals in junk time. We lack leadership and hardness in the middle at times. And we definitely lack an athlete. Smith is the is the only mid we have with physical size, hardness and pace. Dunkley isn't slow, but he isn't a speedster. Hunter skinny. Macrae slow. Bont looks quick due to his long strides, but isn't overly agile. Libba is a workhorse, but not athlete. Teams just turn us around and make us miss tackles or dish it out fast and spread wide knowing we lack the pace to chase.
Clearances was one part of our game we were near best in the league at. Seems to be exposed way more this year. Take our the midfield going missing and s**t defending, it should have been a blow out. Instead we put the game back on their terms.
On the good sides, we got the win. Don't know why people are sh*tty because we barely beat the Blues. Um have you seen where we are on the ladder? We are not a top four team that should beat them by 20 goals. We are barely a rung ahead of Carlton. A close win or a loss shouldn't be surprising. Carlton do have a bit of talent despite their results. Just haven't got the best out of their list/inconsistent. Have a feeling their midfield will kick our asses a few times in the years ahead with more experience.
Dunkley continues his form, pushing his case for the CS Medal.
Lipinski had Zero clangers or turnovers today. May not be pacey, but he uses the ball very well.
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- Jun 27, 2013
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I felt Dunkley was the only one getting his hands dirty when Carlton started winning the ball in the middle
I feel Bont in particular needs to stand up when the tide is against us. If he's in the guts, he and Macrae need to take responsibility to slow the game down, create repeat stoppages etc before we really get in trouble. When it got to 16-22 point margins the warning bells were there all and sundry, yet we let them whittle it down to under a kick with 3 minutes to go before we finally were able to slow it down and have some possession. We only had ourselves to blame if we ended up losing that.
Losing Libba didn't help either, but we have enough midfield depth currently.
I feel Bont in particular needs to stand up when the tide is against us. If he's in the guts, he and Macrae need to take responsibility to slow the game down, create repeat stoppages etc before we really get in trouble. When it got to 16-22 point margins the warning bells were there all and sundry, yet we let them whittle it down to under a kick with 3 minutes to go before we finally were able to slow it down and have some possession. We only had ourselves to blame if we ended up losing that.
Losing Libba didn't help either, but we have enough midfield depth currently.
- Jun 27, 2013
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Guys like Caleb and Suckling I can tolerate the turnovers because they make things happen and create scoring chains regularly, but I think Caleb would want bits and pieces from that second half back again
Midfield/forwards have to give him an option to kick to also though, sometimes these turnovers come from having no one to kick to.
- Oct 13, 2017
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Dunkley is such a god in the midfield.
