Play Nice Indigenous AFL players call out Adam Goodes's treatment ahead of The Final Quarter documentary release

[ferball]

You almost sound nostalgic backy. Ah for the good old days when stuff like that was normal hey.

He is kind of right tho. Try being a 15 year old kid who looked like Jimmy at Vic Park or Windy Hill. Six foot + adults with a skinful would have no qualms about throwing punches at you and if their mates got hold of you you'd cop a few.

Its nothing like that any more. Racism might not have stopped but its nothing like as bad as it was once upon a time.

That doesn't mean people should shut up about it.

 

[Back One Out]

Racism might not have stopped but its nothing like as bad as it was once upon a time.

That doesn't mean people should shut up about it.

No, you are right. It doesn't mean people should shut up about it.

But I'm expressing my opinion that people these days make mountains out of molehills. I don't mean Goodes. He can do whatever he likes. I just mean the way everyone reacted to him and his cause, both positive and negative. So laughably overblown.

There will always be racism on some levels. It will never be entirely eradicated. But I think we (as in society and the AFL) have done a good job of educating people and transforming AFL venues from a hotbed of ignorance and racism to somewhere you can bring your family and not have to cover your children's ears.

Indigenous players might still encounter racism here and there, but as shown by the record numbers of indigenous players in the AFL, it is somewhere they can actually flourish and make a success of their lives.

I don't think it does their cause any good to falsely label people as racist because they booed Goodes. At the time, it just hardened people's resolve and made the booing more persistent. It would've died a quick natural death if certain folks in the media weren't so intent on inflaming their audience and stirring up trouble. (Hello Caro, Robbo and Patrick Smith)

The documentary never once addressed the tribal nature of AFL barracking. They could've shown equally "disturbing" footage of Paddy Dangerfield being booed by 20,000 Port fans, or Gary Ablett being booed by 20,000 Hawk fans. This would've added some much-needed perspective. But it didn't fit their narrative of Goodes, the proud indigenous warrior taking a stand against racism.

 

[Forward Press]

Look as I mentioned in one of my deleted posts, and in fear of copping another suspension I will just say that, he was a protected player who was more naturally gifted than 99.99% of AFL players; and this, in conjunction with his club receiving COLA, academy selections for peanuts and seemingly having 'player assist on' in terms of umpiring and tribunal instances - in my opinion the mob spoke and be it right or wrong, the message of "get f’ed campaigner" was heard loud and clear in the form of booing.

Football fans, be it Football or AFL are fierce and horrible, we are taught to despise our rivals and Sydney seemed to get kissed on the dick everytime we played them and yet, here is this 2x Brownlow, 2x premiership player still bitching and flopping and being a dick.

I will say, I was at that game in 2015 and it was on for young and old in the smoking section at QT. Not sure we as a fan base covered ourselves in any glory but hey, that's footy.

This kind of argument makes no sense because Goodes was the person being booed systematically, often before he even did anything remotely controbersial on the field. His teammates certainly weren't booed either. Even when Lewis Jetta did that provocative celebration he was booed by West Coast fans for the rest of the game and then forgotten the next week. Did you think the booers late in 2015 were doing it for COLA or cheap academy picks?

 

[romeohwho]

I really despise the way you and others like you try to insinuate I'm racist for posting my well-considered opinions on this topic.

Why would you post that comment above? Does it make you feel superior?

That's actually one of my issues with this whole debate. I see a bunch of people trying to feel superior by putting others down and labelling them as racist. It's just sad that people operate like that. Disappointing, I mean. You're supposed to be the socially aware person who wants the world to be a better place and yet you act like that.

Yes, I am nostalgic for going to suburban VFL football grounds in the 80's, but the feral behaviour and ignorant attitudes of footy fans was disgraceful. Even though such behaviour was normalised and it was less-enlightened times, it still shocked me as a wide-eyed kid. I was raised right by caring parents and encouraged to use my brain.

Calm your farm -am just of the view that racism played a significant part in the Goodes scenario. So I don’t have much time for the view that it was mainly because of ‘other stuff’. Also hold the view that just because racist behaviour is a little less overt than it once was, doesn’t mean it’s not lurking beneath the surface-much as it ever was. And that when it’s scratched, it emerges.

 

[ferball]

No, you are right. It doesn't mean people should shut up about it.

But I'm expressing my opinion that people these days make mountains out of molehills. There will always be racism on some levels. It will never be entirely eradicated. But I think we (as in society and the AFL) have done a good job of educating people and transforming AFL venues from a hotbed of ignorance and racism to somewhere you can bring your family and not have to cover your children's ears.

Indigenous players might still encounter racism here and there, but as shown by the record numbers of indigenous players in the AFL, it is somewhere they can actually flourish and make a success of their lives.

I don't think it does their cause any good to falsely label people as racist because they booed Goodes. At the time, it just hardened people's resolve and made the booing more persistent.

The documentary never once addressed the tribal nature of AFL barracking. They could've shown equally "disturbing" footage of Paddy Dangerfield being booed by 20,000 Port fans, or Gary Ablett being booed by 20,000 Hawk fans. This would've added some much-needed perspective. But it didn't fit their narrative of Goodes, the proud indigenous warrior taking a stand against racism.

Maybe...

I live in Northern NSW - lots of ex Victorians around here but its dominated by NSW people and RL/rah rah. But lots of those people support the Swans the way AFL people of different clubs support the Storm. There was definitely a racist element to the way Goodes was protrayed in the media here and by plenty of those people in general conversation. Some Swans "supporters" went from liking him as their favorite player to hating him over that period. I wouldn't have called all of those people racist either and many had no conception of his protected species status cos they didn't really follow footy.

I personally think it does have to do with him being "uppity" ie vocal and critical about his aboriginality and the general racism in society (AFL and RL have led the way in terms of the acceptance of aboriginal people and its off the back of the Rioli, the Krakouers, Winmar, Long, Kickett, Matera etc etc and other players in League as well.) Goodes did what he did in the context of that, I think in the expectation that most Australians were mature enough to deal with it. But given the political climate at the time (Abbott v Gillard and all that non whining shitfight about ... well everything really, more culture war) it didn;'t work out that way. It probably would have 5 years earlier too.

A lot of people did have had the attitude of "we let them live here and that's how they respond". (People still think this way about blackfellas. That its possible to somehow send em back to where they came from.) It's happened time and again over the last 30 years as Australia has become a more open and less racist society. Not just to blackfellas. Anyone who criticises Australia whatever their background. That's why we have love it or leave it stickers on cars.

I dunno ... on reflection it just occurred to me that that is a actually sign of progress because once upon a time that sort of criticism wouldn't have been tolerated at all or even heard in the public debate. (Maybe but true.) But its still a thing. White Australia has a tendency to react with vitriol and anger to anyone who criticises it, especially if they aren't white.

 

[ferball]

Calm your farm -am just of the view that racism played a significant part in the Goodes scenario. So I don’t have much time for the view that it was mainly because of ‘other stuff’. Also hold the view that just because racist behaviour is a little less overt than it once was, doesn’t mean it’s not lurking beneath the surface-much as it ever was. And that when it’s scratched, it emerges.

I live up the road from Grafton about 100 - 200km and attitudes like the one that prick who murdered those people in Christchurch expressed are commonplace even now.

 

[4thebloods]

I just laugh out loud at the way people blindly eat up everything Goodes says about "racism stops with me" etc.

He's waging a war which was already won. Racism at the footy has stopped.

You really think it was racism at the footy that was the issue Goodes was taking a stand against? Nothing to do with broader racism across society? Or has that stopped too?

 

[romeohwho]

He is kind of right tho. Try being a 15 year old kid who looked like Jimmy at Vic Park or Windy Hill. Six foot + adults with a skinful would have no qualms about throwing punches at you and if their mates got hold of you you'd cop a few.

Its nothing like that any more. Racism might not have stopped but its nothing like as bad as it was once upon a time.

That doesn't mean people should shut up about it.

Yep -I guess but it’s hard to measure how far we have come. It was only 20 years ago that Winmar was copping serious abuse at Victoria Park. It was only 6 years ago that Goodes was racially abused. 3 years ago that Betts was abused. The number of people, on this thread who are determinedly insistent it was about ‘other stuff’ and can’t consider racism played any part, does give me pause. So maybe on the surface we have made progress but not sure its convincing.

 

[ferball]

Yep -I guess but it’s hard to measure how far we have come. It was only 20 years ago that Winmar was copping serious abuse at Victoria Park. It was only 6 years ago that Goodes was racially abused. 3 years ago that Betts was abused. The number of people, on this thread who are determinedly insistent it was about ‘other stuff’ and can’t consider racism played any part, does give me pause. So maybe on the surface we have made progress but not sure its convincing.

When I left high school in the late 80s I used to go fruit picking regularly to get a bit of cash. There were towns I wouldn't go to cos the cops had reputations for hanging black people in their cells. I'd often talk to local blackfellas about where was safe and where wasn't.

I don't feel that way any more. That is a definite improvement.

I'm not saying its perfect but its better than it was. There is a post I made upthread where I wonder if we haven't peaked tho and things are going backwards again.

 

[Quintero]

This kind of argument makes no sense because Goodes was the person being booed systematically, often before he even did anything remotely controbersial on the field. His teammates certainly weren't booed either. Even when Lewis Jetta did that provocative celebration he was booed by West Coast fans for the rest of the game and then forgotten the next week. Did you think the booers late in 2015 were doing it for COLA or cheap academy picks?

I don't know, but I made it my lifes quest to get to that game so I could boo him one last time (if that makes you sleep better)

I am not historically a booer, but I booed Goodes. Shoot me, call me racist, purge me... Whatever you need. I hate everything about Sydney, the bs bloods culture, the bs leg ups they got and instead of vandalizing AFL house ala Fitzroy, I booed their Aboriginal superstar.

Was it racist? I don't care either way to be perfectly honest - I know I'm not inherently racist or a bigot of may kind I have friends from all races and religions and I have enjoyed my time Alice or Nimbin in the past where I have had interactions with Aboriginals or Kooris.

It happened and as previous posters mentioned, the average AFL fan is far from racist these days and to borrow their quote. "The racial war was already won" - never a truer word has been spoken on this topic.

 

[ferball]

I don't know, but I made it my lifes quest to get to that game so I could boo him one last time (if that makes you sleep better)

I am not historically a booer, but I booed Goodes. Shoot me, call me racist, purge me... Whatever you need. I hate everything about Sydney, the bs bloods culture, the bs leg ups they got and instead of vandalizing AFL house ala Fitzroy, I booed their Aboriginal superstar.

Was it racist? I don't care either way to be perfectly honest - I know I'm not inherently racist or a bigot of may kind I have friends from all races and religions and I have enjoyed my time Alice or Nimbin in the past where I have had interactions with Aboriginals or Kooris.

It happened and as previous posters mentioned, the average AFL fan is far from racist these days and to borrow their quote. "The racial war was already won" - never a truer word has been spoken on this topic.

says the clown who calls people "half castes".

 

[Quintero]

says the clown who calls people "half castes".

Oh Ferbs, we are all half something, he is half Irish. Is 'Japs' not racists?

And btw I got ripped off in Nimbin but left that bit out, tried to by a Q'y and was given a 50 bag. Was kinda cut when I got back to my car.

And re: bolded bit, I mean in the stands not outside of the grounds. I understand your angst and you are a good campaigner so I apologise.

 

[JackOutback]

No, you are right. It doesn't mean people should shut up about it.

But I'm expressing my opinion that people these days make mountains out of molehills. I don't mean Goodes. He can do whatever he likes. I just mean the way everyone reacted to him and his cause, both positive and negative. So laughably overblown.

There will always be racism on some levels. It will never be entirely eradicated. But I think we (as in society and the AFL) have done a good job of educating people and transforming AFL venues from a hotbed of ignorance and racism to somewhere you can bring your family and not have to cover your children's ears.

Indigenous players might still encounter racism here and there, but as shown by the record numbers of indigenous players in the AFL, it is somewhere they can actually flourish and make a success of their lives.

I don't think it does their cause any good to falsely label people as racist because they booed Goodes. At the time, it just hardened people's resolve and made the booing more persistent. It would've died a quick natural death if certain folks in the media weren't so intent on inflaming their audience and stirring up trouble. (Hello Caro, Robbo and Patrick Smith)

The documentary never once addressed the tribal nature of AFL barracking. They could've shown equally "disturbing" footage of Paddy Dangerfield being booed by 20,000 Port fans, or Gary Ablett being booed by 20,000 Hawk fans. This would've added some much-needed perspective. But it didn't fit their narrative of Goodes, the proud indigenous warrior taking a stand against racism.

Because the ‘tribal barracking’ of AFL fans is irrelevant. If it was a case of tribal barracking, there would be plenty of other incidents of a similar nature. The reason the doco focused on this case is precisely because it was unique and different, which means other factors are at play.

 

[Forward Press]

I don't know, but I made it my lifes quest to get to that game so I could boo him one last time (if that makes you sleep better)

I am not historically a booer, but I booed Goodes. Shoot me, call me racist, purge me... Whatever you need. I hate everything about Sydney, the bs bloods culture, the bs leg ups they got and instead of vandalizing AFL house ala Fitzroy, I booed their Aboriginal superstar.

Was it racist? I don't care either way to be perfectly honest - I know I'm not inherently racist or a bigot of may kind I have friends from all races and religions and I have enjoyed my time Alice or Nimbin in the past where I have had interactions with Aboriginals or Kooris.

It happened and as previous posters mentioned, the average AFL fan is far from racist these days and to borrow their quote. "The racial war was already won" - never a truer word has been spoken on this topic.

If that is a genuine post I feel sorry for you. Travelling all that way and paying money to boo the s**t out of someone you haven't even met. Did you boo all the other Sydney players too?

 

[ferball]

Oh Ferbs, we are all half something, he is half Irish. Is 'Japs' not racists?

And btw I got ripped off in Nimbin but left that bit out, tried to by a Q'y and was given a 50 bag. Was kinda cut when I got back to my car.

And re: bolded bit, I mean in the stands not outside of the grounds. I understand your angst and you are a good campaigner so I apologise.

Serves you right for buying weed in Nimbin.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Because the ‘tribal barracking’ of AFL fans is irrelevant. If it was a case of tribal barracking, there would be plenty of other incidents of a similar nature. The reason the doco focused on this case is precisely because it was unique and different, which means other factors are at play.

I asked you before and you didn't answer, so i'll ask again.

Do you have an explanation as to why Indigenous people booed Goodes?

Also while we are at it, could you explain why anyone in this thread who said they booed Goodes has been questioned or attacked, yet when an Indigenous person says they booed Goodes, crickets?

 

[Quintero]

If that is a genuine post I feel sorry for you. Travelling all that way and paying money to boo the s**t out of someone you haven't even met. Did you boo all the other Sydney players too?

Clearly a joke... I went because I love travelling to away finals (except Perth for obvious reasons). Barry Hall yes, but he was gone by then I believe, Buddy wasn't playing so couldn't boo him either.

Nowadays I only would really boo Nick Blakey and will do so until the day he retires. And sometimes Luke Parker because I just don't like the guy.

 

[Quintero]

Serves you right for buying weed in Nimbin.

Well when I was there all the white guys wearing balaclavas in the park (my usual contacts) had been locked up, so had to try my luck at the community centre as I wasn't going home empty handed.

 

[ferball]

Oh Ferbs, we are all half something, he is half Irish. Is 'Japs' not racists?

And btw I got ripped off in Nimbin but left that bit out, tried to by a Q'y and was given a 50 bag. Was kinda cut when I got back to my car.

And re: bolded bit, I mean in the stands not outside of the grounds. I understand your angst and you are a good campaigner so I apologise.

I just thought calling a Japanese person a Jap was like calling an Australian an Aussie. Not even calling a Pom a Pom or someone from NZ a Kiwi. Its lazy i guess ... even the word Nip is just a shortening of Nippon, which is Japanese for Japan. Words like that convey the sort of attitude the person saying them has. If you respect people its not an issue.

FWIW a caste is a rigid Hindu social class. Its one you are born into and can only leave if you become "untouchable" ie the lowest social standing available, calling someone a half cast is like calling them half pregnant. If mixed race or miscegenated Hindus were kicked out of their parents caste then they became untouchable not half whatever that caste was. The term was invented to * over people who were of mixed race even more than they already were.

BTW Apology accepted. Its cool. My old man was Hindu and my mum was Irish (mostly). I've punched campaigners for calling me a half caste before but they did it to pick a fight so I was only obliging them.

Still laughing about Nimbin tho. If you're not a cop next time you're up this way let me know and i'll steer you towards people who won't rort you.

 

[ferball]

Well when I was there all the white guys wearing balaclavas in the park (my usual contacts) had been locked up, so had to try my luck at the community centre as I wasn't going home empty handed.

When was this?

I probably played footy with a few of them fellas. Its bullshit whats happened in that town. We live in a police state.

 

[CatFan79]

The reason the doco focused on this case is precisely because it was unique and different, which means other factors are at play.

Factors at play being he flopped, sniped, kicked players throughout the tail end of his career... You've been sucked into the racism narrative.

 

[Forward Press]

Factors at play being he flopped, sniped, kicked players throughout the tail end of his career... You've been sucked into the racism narrative.

Did you boo Sam Mitchell in his final years at Hawthorn?

 

[GeneticCat]

I asked you before and you didn't answer, so i'll ask again.

Do you have an explanation as to why Indigenous people booed Goodes?

Also while we are at it, could you explain why anyone in this thread who said they booed Goodes has been questioned or attacked, yet when an Indigenous person says they booed Goodes, crickets?

Maybe it’s a case of one swallow not making a summer or why I don’t believe climate change deniers who ignore all the actual science. I’m happy to have their opinions but they can still be ballocks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Occidental]

That stuff you posted about Winmar walking out may well have occurred. I vaguely remember him doing that. And I never claimed that racism stories dominated the news cycle in 1993 like it did in 2015. But that doesn't change anything I posted. It is exactly how I remember.

i.e. It was a fantastic win by everyone's second favorite team over the despised Magpies - a perennial underdog who had climbed off the bottom of the ladder with rare finals apperances in 1991 and 1992 - who stuck it up the powerful Collingwood FC to win by 4 goals on the Pies' own dunghill. Winmar and McAdam played outstanding games that day - they were the 2 best players on the ground. When the news reports and post game coverage revealed how they had been racially abused by the spitting, toothless Magpie ferals, the prevailing sentiment from the football world was a collective thumbs up and "Good for you, guys! Great win! You stuck it up 'em!"

The football media in '93 was not as prone to sensationalising things and bleeding out every controversy to the Nth degree like they do now.

Back then, you could have a massive punch up on the terraces during a game and it would barely make a ripple in the news.
The umpires were literally abused and threatened by hundreds of people after every game when the home team lost.
Players were routinely spat on by spectators at Victoria Park and everyone made jokes about it

Players were occasionally attacked by fans as they left the field and there might be a small article about it. Usually not. Some idiot taking umbrage at an opposition thug sniping one of their players during the game and deciding to run on the ground after the final siren with the little kiddies and
have a go at them. (needless to say, they always came off second best)

Nowadays this would be a headline incident. Back then it barely rated a mention. Same goes with all the off field shenanigans - players getting shiitfaced and making mischief. None of it was reported. The football writers just stuck to writing about football.

It was different times.

Everything I posted is factually accurate and can be backed up by every contemporary source you care to research.

You're posting about your memories.

 

[Mordecai]

The only issue with the whole "the racial war was already won" idea is I think it shuts out those that still harbour those views.

They go to ground and it's not discussed again. I'm really interested to hear why those views would be held. I do doubt there would be many racists on here reading on this topic though.