Play Nice Indigenous AFL players call out Adam Goodes's treatment ahead of The Final Quarter documentary release

[GeneticCat]

The difference between those players you mentioned above was that they were actually suspended for their thuggish behaviour. They also played in an era without 24/7 coverage and social media, that highlights every little sniping act that players don't get rubbed out for.

Would you equate Goodes and their acts?!? I chose them because they were extreme! Cam Mooney played in the same era (13 tribunal appearances for 14 weeks)... “Moooon” was as much as he got. For every “unsociable act” by Goodes I can give you 200 worse from others and still he’s the bad guy. Ask the blokes he played against and they’ll tell you he’s a ripping fella! Join the dots!


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[CatFan79]

If you can look inside yourself and HONESTLY say you don’t think there was something racial about this I’d be alarmed. I don’t know if it makes the booers racist but it definitely makes the booing racist.

See when I hear this 'look deep inside yourself' and 'I'd be alarmed' nonsense I know what you're doing....

You're trying to divert attention from a common sense point of view and shame people into believing this false narrative.

You can be alarmed, outraged, and look as deep within yourself as you like, it doesn't change reality.

 

[Quintero]

Would you equate Goodes and their acts?!? I chose them because they were extreme! Cam Mooney played in the same era (13 tribunal appearances for 14 weeks)... “Moooon” was as much as he got. For every “unsociable act” by Goodes I can give you 200 worse from others and still he’s the bad guy. Ask the blokes he played against and they’ll tell you he’s a ripping fella! Join the dots!


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Would it not be because they copped their right whack at the tribunal where as Goodes seemingly got away with stuff.

 

[Pessimistic]

They did have to re brand van deimens land as tasmania so bad was its reputation

Theres no stone left unturned in this thread

 

[GeneticCat]

Would it not be because they copped their right whack at the tribunal where as Goodes seemingly got away with stuff.

Over the course of 370 odd games you win some credits for fringe incidents but do you genuinely reckon the “booers” were outraged by these?


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[rmcq]

old girl). It was because he was a "flog".

So the question is why people thought he was a "flog". It can't just be the staging for free kicks, or his aboriginality. When I last watched Buddy play (against the Tiges), that seems to be his modus operandi now too, but I don't see him being relentlessly bullied/booed.

I personally think people consider him a "flog" because he made a stand, refused to accept his position in life, became a "tall poppy". And didn't some love to bring him down.

And sure, fine if that's what you think. But if you look at what he did, and what he actually said himself, rather than how sections of the media portrayed his words, perhaps you'd change your mind.

[edit] Wow, the first half of my post was cut off. Oh well, I guess I didn't need that introductory section...

 

[Ordovician]

Don't reply to me again, bigot.

FMD.

You really are that ******* stupid.

If you can’t comprehend basic English then I suggest that you don’t try and follow what is being said here as it is clearly too difficult for you.

I suggest that you might be better served honing your comprehension skills by having a remedial English teacher read you Myrtle the Turtle stories and explain the difficult passages too you.

 

[GeneticCat]

See when I hear this 'look deep inside yourself' and 'I'd be alarmed' nonsense I know what you're doing....

You're trying to divert attention from a common sense point of view and shame people into believing this false narrative.

You can be alarmed, outraged, and look as deep within yourself as you like, it doesn't change reality.

See when I hear “Common sense approach” I read “My approach”. I probably shouldn’t have used emotive language about such a dry subject. You are aware of the scientific term “cognitive empathy” though right? It’s what separates some of us from other animals.


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[Engimal v3]

If you can’t comprehend basic English then I suggest that you don’t try and follow what is being said here as it is clearly too difficult for you.

Tell us how you really feel about non-native English speakers.

 

[Ordovician]

Tell us how you really feel about non-native English speakers.

No, I am just referring to morons like you who can’t comprehend standard English words and syntactical constructions.

Years ago I studied with a lot of guys, who where non-native English speakers and I was continually impressed by the quality of their written English even though they all at least tri-lingual.

I am just amazed and appalled, by your inability to comprehend a modest standard English, about the level a year 12 student should be able to grasp or mainstream newspaper standard.

You are too stupid to understand the term alien and even far more of a self righteous, politically correct, fake lefty cretin to grasp the hint from the following phrase that I posted:

“where one side is alien and with a pronounced technological advantage, can degenerate into genocide very quickly”

Yes, clearly the Tasmanians were aliens in their own land and possessed superior technology to the British colonizing power.

People as stupid as you should be deported to the USA where you’d fit right in attacking Trump for being a Russian puppet and sucking up all the other crap their media engages in and taking part in “rat’s lives matter” vegan demonstrations.

 

[JackOutback]

Would you equate Goodes and their acts?!? I chose them because they were extreme! Cam Mooney played in the same era (13 tribunal appearances for 14 weeks)... “Moooon” was as much as he got. For every “unsociable act” by Goodes I can give you 200 worse from others and still he’s the bad guy. Ask the blokes he played against and they’ll tell you he’s a ripping fella! Join the dots!


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Hodge was worse, on and off the field, but apparently he’s a leader we should all look up to

 

[ferball]

This leads to the end of his career, where even in his last game against North Melbourne he is booed again, he walks away a broken and shattered man.

I feel the need to point out that in the third quarter of the semi against North Melbourne there was a passage of play where Goodes avoided multiple free kicks paid against him and then received one after doing something that should resulted in one against him. So four potential free kicks that should have been awarded against him in the same passage of play and then he gets one.

The entire North crowd booed that, even people sitting with me who hadn't booed all game. I did too, and I look like Goodes. (If I cut my hair and beard a bit shorter.) That wasn't racism. Feel free to think it was but it wasn't. We weren't booing Goodes alone but him, the ump responsible and that series of decisions. I should add none of those people booed Goodes at any time before that happened. Its wrong to say racism motivated that specific incident.

Actual racism includes things like the manner in which the intervention in the NT was carried out (would that have happened if NT blackfellas were the Catholic Church?) The ongoing treatment of indigenous juveniles by authorities across the country in and out of detention. The ongoing lack of equal punishment for people who kill blackfellas. Continuing deaths in custody and the ongoing freedom of killers like Chris Hurley or the ridiculously short sentences killers like Anton Kloeden got. The media coverage of Sudanese people in the lead up to Maj being found underneath the Bolte Bridge last December, especially the news promos on 7 during the cricket. Actual funding decisions about where money earmarked for indigenous Australians ends up.

Places that charge aboriginal people the same prices for accomodation as non indigenous people but make sure they shunt them to the s**t box rooms out the back. Police and public harassment of indigenous people in central Queensland who object to the Carmicheal Mine on their land. Banning of indigenous people from towns like Nimbin under association laws because they speak out about ongoing police harassment. Indigenous royalties money that gets removed from by ministers and used on local amenities that blackfellas are then are denied access to. Stolen wages all over again. I could go on and on but whats the point?

No one really gives a *.

None of this will change.

It'll only get worse. Australia reached its peak as an enlightened nation 20 years ago. We're well down the slide back into the "dark" (probably should say "light") ages now. You might like to think we are better as a nation but where is the evidence?

Anyway back to Goodes...

Personally I think racism motivated alot of the booing he copped but not in every instance and trying to throw a blanket over the entire issue as either racist or not is flawed. As flawed as thinking racism had nothing to do with it.

Footy crowds are mobs and mobs behave differently to individuals. Individuals in mobs do things they would never do as individuals because of the shame of being identified in some cases but also because they reject that behaviour (in other cases.) It quite possible that consciousness is different in people when they are in a mob or acting as an individual and so people will do things in a football crowd that they wouldn't do under normal circumstances.

People who weren't racist booed Goodes during that period because they knew it might interfere with his game. They exploited racism not because they agree with it but because it gave them and the team they identify with an potential immediate advantage in a conmflict/competition situation. This stuff is hard wired into us as ... you guessed it - apes.

We are all primates. Its just that some of us - Eddie Maguire for example - are more likely to behave like stupid animals in public. While others - Goodes for example - are more likely to discuss things in public forums in a more advanced, more civilised and less base manner.

The things Goodes spoke out about haven't changed. In many cases they have got worse.

That's what we should be booing.

 

[carloss]

Hey, I haven’t been here long but I will just drop in to say this. Most people who are racist have no knowledge that they are. Unless you are thoroughly educated in the nature of racism then you will almost automatically be racist. This is the really hard pill for people all over the world to swallow. No one wants to believe that about themselves, but we all need to be big enough to confront the truth of it. It’s not about being dumb or smart, it’s about the billion small moments that build a person over the course of their life. The bonus is that if you dare to go there, there is enormous insight and personal development to be had. It’s an amazing experience to see the world in a new light.
All the best.

So are you a racist? Cause if you say no, then you are. You just have no knowledge that you are.

 

[ferball]

See when I hear “Common sense approach” I read “My approach”. I probably shouldn’t have used emotive language about such a dry subject. You are aware of the scientific term “cognitive empathy” though right? It’s what separates some of us from other animals.


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Wild primates also engage in cognitive empathy.

Its fundamental to being an "alpha male" in wild primate societies. Its only domestic primates (ie humans) that actually allow leadership without it and thats probably only because we've ended up in societies that are so big everyone doesn't know each other. Its probably a big reason why psychopaths are able to fill leadership roles across large scale human societies.

 

[Forward Press]

I don't buy those saying they booed Goodes before he even touched the ball because he was a serial stager or on-field thug or sniper or any other football related reasons. Even players like Barry Hall, who actually sat out months due to undisputed, intentional strikes on players, was never subject to this level of crowd disapproval for this long. Luke Hodge deliberately acquainted Chad Wingard with a behind post. Reece Conca thought king-hitting people from behind was an acceptable retaliation tactic. I could go on...

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Again, disingenuous. Other players have done more over the top celebrations and not copped criticism. It wasn't 'threatening' unless you are a genuine 'snowflake', it was obviously theatre. It was an excuse for the booers to keep booing while trying to dress it up as reasonable.

Can you just name one player who did any similar thing directed at the opposition supporters. For the record I dont think the celebration had a huge impact on the issue just interested if you can back up your point.

 

[GeneticCat]

See when I hear this 'look deep inside yourself' and 'I'd be alarmed' nonsense I know what you're doing....

You're trying to divert attention from a common sense point of view and shame people into believing this false narrative.

You can be alarmed, outraged, and look as deep within yourself as you like, it doesn't change reality.

So just to be clear, your narrative is that there was no racist overtones in the way Goodes was treated? No segment of the crowd didn’t like him because he was an outspoken aboriginal man? I asked you to look inside yourself not to illicit shame (if you feel it that’s down to you) but rather to check if your bias may be interfering with your narrative.


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[Maddo11]

Can you just name one player who did any similar thing directed at the opposition supporters. For the record I dont think the celebration had a huge impact on the issue just interested if you can back up your point.

Jetta?

 

[Spanish_Fly]

Jetta?

Similar I have to say, I'm guessing he was booed in that game for it, or given plenty of stick from WCE fans, they probably didnt get the chance to follow it up next time around as he signed for WCE after that.

 

[CatFan79]

So just to be clear, your narrative is that there was no racist overtones in the way Goodes was treated?

Can I account for each individual in the crowd? No, how ridiculous.

However, this doco implies outright that the booing was racist and fails to mention the on-field conduct of Goodes in the very game they use as an example of this 'racist' booing.

I'm not pushing a narrative, I have no agenda, but it's obvious who does.

 

[Back One Out]

The Winmar 1993 issue is not exactly what people remember. It was a slow burn. Four days after that game Winmar walked out on StKilda demanding more money. He didn’t play for 5 weeks and St Kilda were furious. They lost every game without him.
It’s very rare for a player to do that - walking out in the middle of a season. That was the big news regarding him after that game. This idea of Winmar immediately receiving huge support did not happen. Even his own club was at odds with him.
However the Collingwood President spoke abysmally about the issue and was rightfully condemned. That massively inflamed the issue.
But Winmar was not commenting on anything. He was on strike.
The incident was rightfully remembered, but it didn’t really gain traction until a few years later. Especially once Michael Long spoke up.

That stuff you posted about Winmar walking out may well have occurred. I vaguely remember him doing that. And I never claimed that racism stories dominated the news cycle in 1993 like it did in 2015. But that doesn't change anything I posted. It is exactly how I remember.

i.e. It was a fantastic win by everyone's second favorite team over the despised Magpies - a perennial underdog who had climbed off the bottom of the ladder with rare finals apperances in 1991 and 1992 - who stuck it up the powerful Collingwood FC to win by 4 goals on the Pies' own dunghill. Winmar and McAdam played outstanding games that day - they were the 2 best players on the ground. When the news reports and post game coverage revealed how they had been racially abused by the spitting, toothless Magpie ferals, the prevailing sentiment from the football world was a collective thumbs up and "Good for you, guys! Great win! You stuck it up 'em!"

The football media in '93 was not as prone to sensationalising things and bleeding out every controversy to the Nth degree like they do now.

Back then, you could have a massive punch up on the terraces during a game and it would barely make a ripple in the news.
The umpires were literally abused and threatened by hundreds of people after every game when the home team lost.
Players were routinely spat on by spectators at Victoria Park and everyone made jokes about it

Players were occasionally attacked by fans as they left the field and there might be a small article about it. Usually not. Some idiot taking umbrage at an opposition thug sniping one of their players during the game and deciding to run on the ground after the final siren with the little kiddies and
have a go at them. (needless to say, they always came off second best)

Nowadays this would be a headline incident. Back then it barely rated a mention. Same goes with all the off field shenanigans - players getting shiitfaced and making mischief. None of it was reported. The football writers just stuck to writing about football.

It was different times.

 

[hurlygurdy]

So are you a racist? Cause if you say no, then you are. You just have no knowledge that you are.

I promised myself i wouldn't come back. Oh well.
Yes i'm racist. When i see aboriginal people i have a more cautious reaction than i would if they were white. Some might say that is just being sensible if it's a group of young guys at night or whatever, but just because it's sensible doesn't make it not racist. It's a self perpetuating cycle. Kid gets treated differently by everyone, has a more difficult home life as a result of intergenerational discrimination, grows up with a greater likelihood of being involved with street violence. There is no answer to this. You can't say they should pull themselves together and not be a victim, because we have no business preaching when we are part of the problem. Our job is to understand their situation and do what we can to change it which basically can only mean giving up our authority over them. If we do that we are empowering their community which can mean change from the ground up. Instead we continually ask them to integrate and live by the rules set down by those that massacred their great grandparents. We need to stop pretending we aren't a part of the problem when we are only 3 generations from those that called them animals by law.
Those that don't go about being overtly racist want to claim innocence, but it is far more insidious than that. It's tied up in the fabric of our society and our history.

 

[Quintero]

Over the course of 370 odd games you win some credits for fringe incidents but do you genuinely reckon the “booers” were outraged by these?


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Look as I mentioned in one of my deleted posts, and in fear of copping another suspension I will just say that, he was a protected player who was more naturally gifted than 99.99% of AFL players; and this, in conjunction with his club receiving COLA, academy selections for peanuts and seemingly having 'player assist on' in terms of umpiring and tribunal instances - in my opinion the mob spoke and be it right or wrong, the message of "get ****ed campaigner" was heard loud and clear in the form of booing.

Football fans, be it Football or AFL are fierce and horrible, we are taught to despise our rivals and Sydney seemed to get kissed on the dick everytime we played them and yet, here is this 2x Brownlow, 2x premiership player still bitching and flopping and being a dick.

I will say, I was at that game in 2015 and it was on for young and old in the smoking section at QT. Not sure we as a fan base covered ourselves in any glory but hey, that's footy.

 

[Back One Out]

I just laugh out loud at the way people blindly eat up everything Goodes says about "racism stops with me" etc.

He's waging a war which was already won. Racism at the footy has stopped.

Back in the day at some of the suburban hellhole grounds, you'd have hundreds and hundreds of people screaming obscenities at indigenous Australians!" whenever an indigenous player got the ball. (Not just men. Women and children too). And nothing was ever said or written about it. This sort of disgusting behaviour was NORMAL at some grounds.

Nowadays, you might get one idiot scream some racist shiit in a crowd of 40,000 and they are instantly ostracised by the crowd and chucked out by security. But it doesn't end there. It becomes headline material. It becomes part of the repetitive news cycle for the next 7 days. Everyone in the media will be dissecting it and wondering "How can this happen! OMG!!" We'll have a 100 page thread about it on Big Footy.

Back in the day, 18 white guys from one team would single out the aboriginal match-winner (Winmar, Krakouer or Lewis) and they would racially abuse him from go to woah. The indigenous player was expected to take it in his stride. If he lost his temper and punched someone, he'd be suspended for 2 weeks and everyone would criticise him for showing a lack of discipline and letting his teammates down. It was never even reported that he was responding to racial abuse. Players were expected to keep their mouths shut at the tribunal and say nothing. What happened on the field, stayed on the field.

Times have changed. We live in more enlightened times. We also live in polarised times where everything is sensationalised. The truth is usually too mundane for most people and the media has become increasingly hysterical in order to maintain their relevance in the face of a dwindling market.

The booing of Goodes was no different. It became a big issue for the likes of Robbo and Caro in order to sell papers. Just like Dusty & his chopsticks, or Ben Stratton pinching Fantasia, or Buddy Franklin throwing his drink all over someone at a nightclub, or a nude pic of a St Kilda player getting posted online somewhere, or a footballer tweeting some "contorversial" bullshiit which nobody remembers 2 weeks later.

The Goodes documentary is laughable in the way it tries to portray AFL footy fans in 2015 as a seething, frothing racist mob. That might play well to Swans fans, hand-wringing lefties and all the children who know no better, but most footy fans who passionately follow their team and go to the game every weekend know the score. They know this is all largely sensationalised bullshit by the media and that Goodes was a disliked opposition villain who was booed like other tall poppies. They know the booing persisted (and even increased) due to the arrogant media piling onto ordinary football fans, demanding they stop booing and labelling them as racist.

 

[Back One Out]

You almost sound nostalgic backy. Ah for the good old days when stuff like that was normal hey.

I really despise the way you and others like you try to insinuate I'm racist for posting my well-considered opinions on this topic.

Why would you post that comment above? Does it make you feel superior?

That's actually one of my issues with this whole debate. I see a bunch of people trying to feel superior by putting others down and labelling them as racist. It's just sad that people operate like that. Disappointing, I mean. You're supposed to be the socially aware person who wants the world to be a better place and yet you act like that.

Yes, I am nostalgic for going to suburban VFL football grounds in the 80's, but the feral behaviour and ignorant attitudes of footy fans was disgraceful. Even though such behaviour was normalised and it was less-enlightened times, it still shocked me as a wide-eyed kid. I was raised right by caring parents and encouraged to use my brain.