Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[matey]

No you weren't. People need to stop perpetuating this myth.

You won 11 games and finished 9th. You were no more unlucky to miss finals than any other team around the 8-10 mark in any other season.

It's not Hawthorn specific. People really need to let go of the idea that wins late in the season mean more than they do. North finished 2019 winning 3 of 4, Carlton won 5 from 10 after winning 2 from 12. GWS lost 2 of their last 3 and made the GF.

The away win last round against WC was pretty special. WC had a fair bit to play for but lost its double chance and some momentum perhaps.

Hawks were a middle of the road side in 2019 as indicated by its ladder position and Clarko would be the first person to put his hand up and say the same thing. However the gap between 9th and 1st is the smallest it has ever been. Hawks are not that far off the best. The drafting strategy by the Hawks since its 3 peat filling many gaps created by so many departures in a short period of time is bloody amazing. Once these players start to play together more, learning the Hawks system .... the upside is significant.

Very interesting that so many oppo supporters are predicting a cliff just around the corner while many Hawk fans and Clarko himself are optimistic that the club will challenge for silverware again soon. Only time will tell but as a supporter couldn’t be happier with the way the club has transitioned it’s playing list since 2016.

 

[Scotland]

The away win last round against WC was pretty special. WC had a fair bit to play for but lost its double chance and some momentum perhaps.

Hawks were a middle of the road side in 2019 as indicated by its ladder position and Clarko would be the first person to put his hand up and say the same thing. However the gap between 9th and 1st is the smallest it has ever been. Hawks are not that far off the best. The drafting strategy by the Hawks since its 3 peat filling many gaps created by so many departures in a short period of time is bloody amazing. Once these players start to play together more, learning the Hawks system .... the upside is massive.

Very interesting that so many oppo supporters are predicting a cliff just around the corner while many Hawk fans and Clarko himself are optimistic that the club will challenge for silverware again soon. Only time will tell but as a supporter couldn’t be happier with the way the club has transitioned it’s playing list since 2016.

WC were awful in Rd 23 coming off a brutal away loss in Rd 22 which cost us any chance of a top 2 spot. Credit to Hawthorn who were easily better but they did come off a very easy game the week prior. Everyone loves Roughead but there's no way he kicks 6 this year against decent opposition.

You can easily argue the gap between 1st and 9th is small, but what of the gap from 9th to 10th, 10th to 11th, 11th to 12th? Even Melbourne all the way down in 17th are not a legitimate 5 win team. Essendon (8th, 12 wins) got 4 games from Daniher (AA, 2017) and 7 from Dev Smith (B&F, 2018) last year. Two pretty handy ins. WB (7th, 12 wins) added Josh Bruce and Alex Keath to their talls stocks, plus went into the finals with a team of 13 players 23 or under and total games played of 1685. GWS (6th, 13 wins) made it through to the GF minus Coniglio and Ward and have added an experienced ruckman. Greene, Whitefield, Kelly, Coniglio, Ward all missed 7 or more games for the season. WC (5th, 15 wins) arguably had a poor year after 2018 and still won 15 games. Straight into the mix goes Geelong's best (not really, 2nd or 3rd maybe) midfielder. Etc. You can see where this is going. Whatever argument you can make for how team A can improve there are just as many in favour of teams B, C and D.

Opposition supporters and kool aid drinkers will oscillate between 'cliff is coming, bottom 4 for years' and 'Clarko GOAT premiership next year'. I tipped middle 6 for Hawthorn in 2019 and am going to go with that again for 2020. Not terrible, but with the investment in the now you would hope not. Scully, Wingard, Impey, Henderson, O'Meara, Mitchell and now Frost/Patton/Hartley all added post 2016 as established player to maintain a list profile. If my team was adding players to maintain a 22 with an average age of 27+ and games played of 3000+ I wouldn't be accepting any "rebuilding" or "playing the kids" bullshit either. But I don't see enough quality to really challenge the better sides.

 

[Pessimistic]

Like I said. Richmond were so close to a 17 18 19 threepeat. But they didnt

being in that position is not rare. Actually doing it is. Now rack off trying to talk it down

 

[OnTheRocks]

What happens when Hawthorn again misses the 8?
An admission that Blaisee was right?

And when will Hawthorn be doing that?

 

[Gavin Excell]

And when will Hawthorn be doing that?

This year and probably next

 

[OnTheRocks]

This year and probably next

Hindsight & probably......ok gotcha

 

[Scotland]

What did blaisee say that has rustled jimmies?

Hawthorn have gone straight sets, 12th, straight sets, 9th the last 4 seasons. That isn't new information. Doesn't really impact future performance one way or another. If that was how it worked they would've won the last 7 flags in a row and the world would have ended.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But I don't see enough quality to really challenge the better sides.

In Scotland-land Hawthorn didn’t defeat Collingwood, West Coast, Giants and Geelong in the last 6 rounds.

 

[Scotland]

In Scotland-land Hawthorn didn’t defeat Collingwood, West Coast, Giants and Geelong in the last 6 rounds.

Is that how it works? I look forward the retrospective 2013-15 Richmond threepeat ceremony.

 

[Jobe Watson]

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Hawthorn just aren't going to play finals in 2020. I feel bad saying this but it's just my honest opinion.

Hawthorn supporters are always using "end of season form" as the reason why they're going to jump up again the next year... and it really has no merit. Fact is, they are a middle of the road team with a middle of the road list that spent more time in the bottom 4 than the top 8 after the first month of season 2019. They stink.

 

[Slysh]

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Hawthorn just aren't going to play finals in 2020. I feel bad saying this but it's just my honest opinion.

Hawthorn supporters are always using "end of season form" as the reason why they're going to jump up again the next year. Fact is, they are middle of the road team with a middle of the road list that spent more time in the bottom 4 than the top 8 in after the first month of season 2019. They stink.

Come on Jobe you can do better than that

 

[Gavin Excell]

Come on Jobe you can do better than that

I particularly like the line "I feel bad about saying this"

Top drawer stuff

 

[RUNVS]

Like I said. Richmond were so close to a 17 18 19 threepeat. But they didnt

being in that position is not rare. Actually doing it is. Now rack off trying to talk it down

I don't think anyone is trying to diminish the accomplishment.

It is not really part of the discussion now though as it has been over 4 years since Hawthorn's last premiership and that is long enough that it is no longer relevant. I mean majority of Hawthorn's list has not won a premiership now.

 

[Pessimistic]

I don't think anyone is trying to diminish the accomplishment.

It is not really part of the discussion now though as it has been over 4 years since Hawthorn's last premiership and that is long enough that it is no longer relevant. I mean majority of Hawthorn's list has not won a premiership now.

if we hadnt won 4 premierships recently, this wouldnt even be a thread as dumbasses wouldnt even be triggered

 

[Gavin Excell]

Worrying signs for the Hawthorns going forward

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Worrying signs for the Hawthorns going forward

Crisis?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Is that how it works? I look forward the retrospective 2013-15 Richmond threepeat ceremony.

Maybe you can explain how a side who “won’t challenge the better sides“ actually beat them?

Let me guess, they all played really badly like when your eagles got plucked at home.

 

[HairyO]

Maybe you can explain how a side who “won’t challenge the better sides“ actually beat them?

Let me guess, they all played really badly like when your eagles got plucked at home.

Tummy bugs. Different cities. Different times. Different team.

Tummy bugs.

And free agency flukes.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Tummy bugs. Different cities. Different times. Different team.

Tummy bugs.

And free agency flukes.

“The arsiest luck”

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

No you weren't. People need to stop perpetuating this myth.

You won 11 games and finished 9th. You were no more unlucky to miss finals than any other team around the 8-10 mark in any other season.

It's not Hawthorn specific. People really need to let go of the idea that wins late in the season mean more than they do. North finished 2019 winning 3 of 4, Carlton won 5 from 10 after winning 2 from 12. GWS lost 2 of their last 3 and made the GF.

Considering we led many games by fair margins in matches we lost and ended up 2 men down 3 times would be cause to think we were a touch unlucky, the real issue we didn't make it was because it took us half a season to make a system work without Mitchell. By than it was too late to make up the ground. No reason why that can't continue into next year with Wingard and Scully used to the way we want to play now and Patton providing coverage and presence for Mitch Lewis. Those 3 players alone will have a knock on effect to how we play.

 

[sr36]

Whether he did or not is irrelevant, this is just impressive. A first year player cleanly picks up the ball, spins through contact and hits the handball that led to a goal. Really surprised anyone would try and downplay that. It was a really good piece of play.

It waa awesome from Worpel. Pointing out Selwoods misjudgement doesn't diminish that. It diminishes the stupid suggestion that a couple made suggesting that Selwood heard footsteps.

 

[Vindicater]

When their season was on the line Hawthorn lost to Essendon and North to effesctively end their 2019 campaign. Once they were effectively knocked out and the pressure was lifted they beat some teams higher up on the ladder.

Basically the signs of a mentally weak group.

Dare I say it.

How very Essendon of them.

 

[HairyO]

When their season was on the line Hawthorn lost to Essendon and North to effesctively end their 2019 campaign. Once they were effectively knocked out and the pressure was lifted they beat some teams higher up on the ladder.

Basically the signs of a mentally weak group.

Dare I say it.

How very Essendon of them.

In the final 2 months Essendon didnt beat a finalist. Hawthorn beat 4.

Id say it was more a case of Essendon crawling in to finals and Hawthorn starting their run a week or 2 late

 

[matey]

When their season was on the line Hawthorn lost to Essendon and North to effesctively end their 2019 campaign. Once they were effectively knocked out and the pressure was lifted they beat some teams higher up on the ladder.

Basically the signs of a mentally weak group.

Dare I say it.

How very Essendon of them.

Very disrespectful to compare such a great club, the mighty Hawks to the insipid Bombers in any shape or form. We have never had Dank bikie types walk through our doors. Nice storey though.

I put the Hawks improvement in the last couple of months of the year down to Clarko giving the younger players more opportunity, trying some players in different positions and the playing group starting to gel together. Future is looking promising.

 

[WWSD]

WC were awful in Rd 23 coming off a brutal away loss in Rd 22 which cost us any chance of a top 2 spot. Credit to Hawthorn who were easily better but they did come off a very easy game the week prior. Everyone loves Roughead but there's no way he kicks 6 this year against decent opposition.

You can easily argue the gap between 1st and 9th is small, but what of the gap from 9th to 10th, 10th to 11th, 11th to 12th? Even Melbourne all the way down in 17th are not a legitimate 5 win team. Essendon (8th, 12 wins) got 4 games from Daniher (AA, 2017) and 7 from Dev Smith (B&F, 2018) last year. Two pretty handy ins. WB (7th, 12 wins) added Josh Bruce and Alex Keath to their talls stocks, plus went into the finals with a team of 13 players 23 or under and total games played of 1685. GWS (6th, 13 wins) made it through to the GF minus Coniglio and Ward and have added an experienced ruckman. Greene, Whitefield, Kelly, Coniglio, Ward all missed 7 or more games for the season. WC (5th, 15 wins) arguably had a poor year after 2018 and still won 15 games. Straight into the mix goes Geelong's best (not really, 2nd or 3rd maybe) midfielder. Etc. You can see where this is going. Whatever argument you can make for how team A can improve there are just as many in favour of teams B, C and D.

Opposition supporters and kool aid drinkers will oscillate between 'cliff is coming, bottom 4 for years' and 'Clarko GOAT premiership next year'. I tipped middle 6 for Hawthorn in 2019 and am going to go with that again for 2020. Not terrible, but with the investment in the now you would hope not. Scully, Wingard, Impey, Henderson, O'Meara, Mitchell and now Frost/Patton/Hartley all added post 2016 as established player to maintain a list profile. If my team was adding players to maintain a 22 with an average age of 27+ and games played of 3000+ I wouldn't be accepting any "rebuilding" or "playing the kids" bullshit either. But I don't see enough quality to really challenge the better sides.

Hawthorn are capable of beating the majority of top teams and they already showed that. I can’t take Brisbane seriously until they beat Hawthorn at the MCG.