Science/Environment Anti-vacc Crazies at it again. Post appropriate outrage ITT

[Clubs are trumps]

It might be news to you that there is a world wide shortage of IC Nurses. Guess why?

Mate i work at the hospital i mentioned in my post above. Im giving an insight into whats happening. I watched my ex struggle to get employment as a nurse after graduating here during the outbreak of the pandemic, simply because she was born in Nepal. If you're going to ask a condescending sarcastic question you can cram it.

 

[kickazz]

Just checking in guys, how we all doing?

Imagine no vaccine for Smallpox, flu, etcetera etfuggingcetera

 

[Hoops]

Who else wants to self vaccinate against Covid 19 by catching it before it peaks self isolate for the required time and then strut around not caring who we come in contact with?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

If you're an anit-vaxxer living in New York and they come up with a vaccine for COVID-19, do you take it and have it administered to your kids too?

 

[Frank Bunn]

If you're an anit-vaxxer living in New York and they come up with a vaccine for COVID-19, do you take it and have it administered to your kids too?

I think once a vaccine becomes available governments will apply pressure for everyone not already immune to receive it. It seems kids generally are not too badly affected by this virus, but they can spread the disease to those at risk.

However it seems likely that we are still 12-18 months away from a vaccine being released. We can't stay in lockdown that long - people will become non-compliant. Some level of herd immunity might be achieved before a vaccine is available, with the flattening of the curve meaning that demand on intensive care is manageable.

 

[Lethality]

Anti-vacc crazies behold: The world without a vaccine for just ONE disease.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Vaccines are not risk free.
160 people in the USA contracted Polio from the Vaccine over a 20 year period.
And for those poor people and their family's it must really feel like they drew the short straw in life.

But if no-one vaccinated against Polio, millions would have died, and we'd still have the horror story of the living.

Polio is almost forgotten now, though we still vaccinate against it.

Living inside a canister: Dallas polio survivor is one of few people left in U.S. using iron lung

The machine is what people see first. The submarine-like metal cylinder dominates the room, rhythmically humming and pulsating as it helps keep...

www.dallasnews.com

Here's some happy kids showing what they'll be doing the rest of their lives.

 

[Mofra]

Still at it

Anti-vaxxer’s sick virus claim

An anti-vaxxer who unsuccessfully ran for a seat in the 2019 federal election has come out with a video downplaying the risk of coronavirus and encouraging Australians to ignore social distancing guidelines.

www.news.com.au

 

[Frank Bunn]

from the Cancer Council

HPV is responsible for:

• almost all cases of genital warts and cervical cancer
• 90% of anal cancers
• 65% of vaginal cancers
• 50% of vulvar cancers
• 35% of penile cancers
• 60% of oropharyngeal cancers (cancers of the back of the throat, including the base of the tongue and tonsils).

So of that list the following are applicable to males -

genital warts - annoying but not life threatening.​

anal cancer - it's rare and only applicable to those receiving unprotected anal sex.​

penile cancer - it's very rare and only 35% of cases are caused by HPV.​

oropharyngeal cancer - the average age of diagnosis is 62. That is beyond the immunity provided by the HPV vaccine given to 12 year olds.​

The HPV vaccine was designed for and marketed at preventing cervical cancer. Vaccinating all 12 year old boys was an afterthought and is not justified by the health benefits. It's more likely that boys have been increasingly included in the program because they are carriers - which as I said is a political decision not a health one.

 

[samFFC]

So of that list the following are applicable to males -

genital warts - annoying but not life threatening.​

anal cancer - it's rare and only applicable to those receiving unprotected anal sex.​

penile cancer - it's very rare and only 35% of cases are caused by HPV.​

oropharyngeal cancer - the average age of diagnosis is 62. That is beyond the immunity provided by the HPV vaccine given to 12 year olds.​

The HPV vaccine was designed for and marketed at preventing cervical cancer. Vaccinating all 12 year old boys was an afterthought and is not justified by the health benefits. It's more likely that boys have been increasingly included in the program because they are carriers - which as I said is a political decision not a health one.

1. It's cost effective for the overall population and health system. Just because a group is low risk doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in vaccination.

2. Many males are not low risk anyway

3. What is the basis for the bolded part?

 

[Frank Bunn]

1. It's cost effective for the overall population and health system. Just because a group is low risk doesn't mean they shouldn't be included in vaccination.

2. Many males are not low risk anyway

3. What is the basis for the bolded part?

In the UK the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation recommended against vaccinating boys for HPV

as it was considered unlikely to be cost-effective. The Committee considered that high coverage in girls would provide herd protection to boys, and that vaccination of boys would generate little additional benefit to the prevention of cervical cancer, which was the main aim of the programme.​

Under pressure JCVI later reversed that recommendation. Like I said it's a political decision not a health one.

The minority of males participating in high risk activity should probably get the vaccine.

I should have said - That is probably beyond the immunity provided by the HPV vaccine given to 12 year olds. Antibodies peak at 7 months after the vaccine has been given then declines over time. We don't know how long the immunity lasts. There's no evidence that it lasts 50 years.

 

[Taylor]

Most lifetime sexual partners would be in a ten year window around a person, I'd expect. So as long as those people don't pick it up to carry it and transmit it to someone outside their vaccination effectiveness window then it should be a non factor in their life.

 

[samFFC]

In the UK the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation recommended against vaccinating boys for HPV

as it was considered unlikely to be cost-effective. The Committee considered that high coverage in girls would provide herd protection to boys, and that vaccination of boys would generate little additional benefit to the prevention of cervical cancer, which was the main aim of the programme.​

Under pressure JCVI later reversed that recommendation. Like I said it's a political decision not a health one.

The minority of males participating in high risk activity should probably get the vaccine.

I should have said - That is probably beyond the immunity provided by the HPV vaccine given to 12 year olds. Antibodies peak at 7 months after the vaccine has been given then declines over time. We don't know how long the immunity lasts. There's no evidence that it lasts 50 years.

1. We aren't the UK. At the very top of each page: "The advice of JCVI is made with reference to the UK immunisation programme and may not necessarily transfer to other epidemiological circumstances". However that was an interesting read, thanks.

2. How would you identify who should get the vaccine?

3. As Taylor noted most of the exposure would occur in the first 10-20 years after the vaccination, rather than equally over 50 years. And besides, HPV-related cancers are often slow growing - hence the change from 2-yearly pap testing to 5-yearly HPV testing. Similar in other HPV related cancers. So although in some cases as you note they may be diagnosed in 50s and 60s age groups, it is likely the exposure was much earlier.

 

[Mofra]

 

[Taylor]

Because those substances in an unspecified amount injected into your body aren't dangerous?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Because those substances in an unspecified amount injected into your body aren't dangerous?

I started with the top one and am experimenting with ever increasing oral dosage.
( not looking forward to the second one ).

 

[Toump Ass]

So On what basis does pro vaxxers base thier argument on, they can only have religion. I cant see anything else that would drive them, now we know thoer science is not s uence...

I base my argument entirely on the fact that people who post unrelated Netflix trailers as evidence in forum threads whilst demonstrating incredibly poor spelling and grammar cannot be trusted with providing accurate information.

Remember JFK?

 

[Thegibbsgamble]

I base my argument entirely on the fact that people who post unrelated Netflix trailers as evidence in forum threads whilst demonstrating incredibly poor spelling and grammar cannot be trusted with providing accurate information.

Remember JFK?

Bad spelling brings out all the brainwashed.

Because if you have to attack someone based on thier spelling, means they are right

But because your headis so screwed up, they have to find fault in whatever they can rather than face what they really are.

It is what it is

I feel For anyone in your life who likes intelligent conversation having to deal With such an extremist.

 

[Chief]

It's more likely that boys have been increasingly included in the program because they are carriers - which as I said is a political decision not a health one.

Ummm... yeah. That is correct. That's one of the reasons. It's no secret.

 

[samFFC]

Because those substances in an unspecified amount injected into your body aren't dangerous?

Possibly. But isn't that the essence of the anti-vaxxer movement - to demonise weirdly named chemicals that either (a) aren't in vaccines anymore or (b) are safe or (c) are certainly safe at the doses administered?

 

[Taylor]

Possibly. But isn't that the essence of the anti-vaxxer movement - to demonise weirdly named chemicals that either (a) aren't in vaccines anymore or (b) are safe or (c) are certainly safe at the doses administered?

Their fear, which it is, comes from knowing that the group doing something affords them the same protection as them doing it to - but the rest take the risk and since everyone is the hero of their own story, they don't need to be like the rest or do their part, they are the special one who can be risk free.

I don't think there would be any or many anti vaccination people if there were no vaccinations at all.

Bad things don't happen to them, their story is special.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

I don't think there would be any or many anti vaccination people if there were no vaccinations at all.

I don't think there would be any 5g loonies if 5g didn't exist either.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I don't think there would be any or many anti vaccination people if there were no vaccinations at all.

When (if) you get to see Edward Jenner, ask him if that was his experience.

 

[Taylor]

When (if) you get to see Edward Jenner, ask him if that was his experience.

You missed the point.

I don't think people would be so concerned for their safety to the exclusion of vaccinations if the rest of the population wasn't having their vaccination and giving them the reward of it through herd immunity.

There is no cost to not getting vaccinated for most people at the moment, but the risk of a side effect is greater than zero to those who do get the jab.

 

[Frank Bunn]

1. We aren't the UK. At the very top of each page: "The advice of JCVI is made with reference to the UK immunisation programme and may not necessarily transfer to other epidemiological circumstances". However that was an interesting read, thanks.

That's true. I haven't tracked down the arguments and justifications of how HPV vaccine for boys in Australia became mainstream in Australia. But sometimes health authorities around the world tend to group think somewhat.

I do know there was a hell of lot of lobbying by the drugs companies and some of that could have over-spilled into boys being pushed to getting HPV vaccine. This article is possibly a bit out-dated now but gives some history - and includes a quote from Dr. Angela Raffle, a British cervical cancer specialist: “Oh, dear. If we give it to boys, then all pretense of scientific worth and cost analysis goes out the window.”

Drug Makers’ Push Leads to Cancer Vaccines’ Rise (Published 2008)

Drug makers call the rapid deployment of a vaccine against cervical cancer education, but their critics call it marketing.

www.nytimes.com

2. How would you identify who should get the vaccine?

I can't claim any expertise. I would guess females and homosexual men who have had little sexual experience should get the vaccine.

3. As Taylor noted most of the exposure would occur in the first 10-20 years after the vaccination, rather than equally over 50 years. And besides, HPV-related cancers are often slow growing - hence the change from 2-yearly pap testing to 5-yearly HPV testing. Similar in other HPV related cancers. So although in some cases as you note they may be diagnosed in 50s and 60s age groups, it is likely the exposure was much earlier.

I agree that the HPV related cancers are slow growing. It makes it hard to test for efficacy as the detection of certain 'abnormal' cells doesn't mean someone will develop cervical cancer. It seems that anyone receiving HPV vaccine is recommended to continue regular pap testing - which already had a high rate of success rate.

 

[douglyzia]

Do people still think we're realistically going to come up with a vaccine for COVID-19? Hate to break it to you, but there's a better chance that it's never going to happen. Sorry to have to tell you this, but all the hype you see in the news is just that i.e. hype. A vaccine is realistically NOT EVER going to be developed. The only reason the news tries to hype up the possibility of a vaccine is because it generates views/revenue when in reality it's all just a pipe dream.

So, what should we do? Shall we just keep the entire planet lockdowned? Seems like a realistic and reasonable plan. I mean, think of all the "grandmas" and fat/obese people. We gotta save the grandmas/fat people! The future of our planet/humanity depends on these grandmas/fatties (who have absolutely no acumen/rationality when it comes to what to shove in their gobs)!

And even if we do, hypothetically, come up with a vaccine for COVID-19 (trust me, it will never happen), do you actually think it's possible to vaccinate the entire ******* planet? How much do you think it will cost? Maybe we should just vaccinate non-third-world countries that could actually afford it. But that would be racist! And even if we risk being labeled as racist and only vaccinate non-third-world countries, should we just ban residents/citizens of third world countries from entering our countries. OH MY GAWD! HOW ******* RACIST IS THAT?!?!?!

Anyway, it's a moot point anyway, because a vaccine is NOT going to be developed. Keep dreaming people. Of course, for far-leftists, this is actually a dream come true because they get to keep everyone lockdowned indefinitely as per their perverse fantasies.