2020 Trade & List Management discussion

[Scrogdogg]

That's the same question that produces the likes of Crocker, Keays and Frampton. I would like us to be more ambitious than that. Although the last time we were ambitious we got Gibbs, so don't listen to me.

Please don't start me on the start, stop, whoops, reset, refigure, oh no! Gibbs disaster. i gnash teeth each time I see those tall athletic club happy young recruits just down the road at you know where.

 

[MRB37]

What has Hately shown or done to be such a priority?

He's from Adelaide.

 

[Betts are off]

He's from Adelaide.

True, but that’s no different from the other 95% of the players discussed in every trade target and list management thread ever posted on AFC BigFooty.

Pretty much a pre requisite for these conversations

 

[Mego Red]

Can someone tell me why Hately is a genuine option for us? Is it the Nicks connection? Does he hate being at a club in a premiership window? Or is he keen to play for a basket case? Why the obsession with him? Because he’s from SA? Don’t quite get it. He’s a decent footballer. But has no standout weapons.

Well, he is from Adelaide (so presumably won't turn up his nose at even the idea of living here), he was a high draft pick at a club that can't give him opportunity, he's out of contract and doesn't seem to be looking to re-sign, he plays a position of need (which is probably everywhere at the moment), he's in the right age range for us ...

 

[Mutineer]

He's from Adelaide.

Gawler I believe.
Originally Canberra and most of his family relations apart from his immediate family live in NSW.

 

[Golumless]

Midfielder in a rotation that includes Kelly, Taranto, Greene, Green, Coniglio, Caldwell, De Boer, Hopper, O'Hallaran, Perryman, Ward, and Whitfield

He's a talented player, but that is a hell of a lot of proved or highly drafted talent to push his way past for opportunity. Plus GWS has to figure out a way to pay all those guys at some point too!

The answer is they don't pay all of them and ship a couple off to lighten the salary cap squeeze.

Hately might be available, and if he is, he'll be available cheaply relative to his draft position.

 

[MRB37]

Gawler I believe.
Originally Canberra and most of his family relations apart from his immediate family live in NSW.

Another Phil Davis type then.

 

[Golumless]

Can someone tell me why Hately is a genuine option for us? Is it the Nicks connection? Does he hate being at a club in a premiership window? Or is he keen to play for a basket case? Why the obsession with him? Because he’s from SA? Don’t quite get it. He’s a decent footballer. But has no standout weapons.

For Hately - opportunity. He's not likely to break into the best 22 of GWS at the moment, though, a large portion of best 22 players in the AFL have no hope of breaking into the best 22 at GWS. They're really a coach away from a dynasty. If he has a good relationship with Nicks, that is a bonus.

For us - needs and opportunity. We're really lacking in big midfielders, and its been a necessity for us to actually be competitive a while. Not only that, but our inside midfield group is hot garbage and are likely to lose Brad Crouch too. The opportunity is it is likely that GWS are unable to pay everyone they have and retain them, which will also lower the amount of draft collateral we need to expend to improve our best 22. We also need to add talented players to our list and Hately, but virtue of being a 1st round pick also ticks that checkbox.

Will Hately be an AA calibre star? Probably not. Could he be a good best 22 piece in a powerful midfield? Absolutely.

 

[Mutineer]

Another Phil Davis type then.

Yep

 

[Betts are off]

The answer is they don't pay all of them and ship a couple off to lighten the salary cap squeeze.

Hately might be available, and if he is, he'll be available cheaply relative to his draft position.

Exactly, which also leads into the answer to the original question "Why are we interested in a guy like Hately".

 

[Golumless]

Exactly, which also leads into the answer to the original question "Why are we interested in a guy like Hately".

Considering we're getting beaten in clearances by over 10 a game, I don't think it's too difficult to see why we're interested in a big inside midfielder. It also helps that Hately can add another 5 kg to his frame as well, which can be done in a pre-season.

 

[Danger_zone]

For Hately - opportunity. He's not likely to break into the best 22 of GWS at the moment, though, a large portion of best 22 players in the AFL have no hope of breaking into the best 22 at GWS. They're really a coach away from a dynasty. If he has a good relationship with Nicks, that is a bonus.

For us - needs and opportunity. We're really lacking in big midfielders, and its been a necessity for us to actually be competitive a while. Not only that, but our inside midfield group is hot garbage and are likely to lose Brad Crouch too. The opportunity is it is likely that GWS are unable to pay everyone they have and retain them, which will also lower the amount of draft collateral we need to expend to improve our best 22. We also need to add talented players to our list and Hately, but virtue of being a 1st round pick also ticks that checkbox.

Will Hately be an AA calibre star? Probably not. Could he be a good best 22 piece in a powerful midfield? Absolutely.

Mutineer pointed out (correct me if I'm wrong) our project player in Ronin Occonor (2019 draft pick 42). From his profile, big body midfielder (191cm/85kg), he had a slender frame when first drafted but has added a few kgs over the preseason. I think opinion was that he definitely would have been drafted in the following year's draft, so why not take him earlier and get some time in a professional environment (relatively speaking for the AFC).

His profile reads pretty nicely, just curious how he stacks up to Hately in terms of skill. Havent seen anything of him, so can anyone comment on his skillset vs Hately?

 

[Betts are off]

Considering we're getting beaten in clearances by over 10 a game, I don't think it's too difficult to see why we're interested in a big inside midfielder. It also helps that Hately can add another 5 kg to his frame as well, which can be done in a pre-season.

At his size it can be done in an afternoon at an all you can eat buffet!

 

[Betts are off]

Mutineer pointed out (correct me if I'm wrong) our project player in Ronin Occonor (2019 draft pick 42). From his profile, big body midfielder (191cm/85kg), he had a slender frame when first drafted but has added a few kgs over the preseason. I think opinion was that he definitely would have been drafted in the following year's draft, so why not take him earlier and get some time in a professional environment (relatively speaking for the AFC).

His profile reads pretty nicely, just curious how he stacks up to Hately in terms of skill. Havent seen anything of him, so can anyone comment on his skillset vs Hately?

From what i've read they have a lot of similarities in terms of height/weight/speed. Couldn't tell you anything concrete in terms of comparative skillset.

I wouldn't have an issue with having multiple guys with that body type in the Midfield rotation.

 

[skam85]

If we're going to be successful at the rebuild, we need to be targeting out of favor first round type talents and using late picks to get them. Think us getting Tom Lynch, North getting Aidan Bonar or Brisbane getting Callum Ah Chee

Here are some possible targets:

GWS - Xavier O'Halloran (pick 22)
Gold Coast - Will Brodie (pick 9)
Carlton - Lochie O'Brien (pick 10)
Brisbane - Alex Witherden (pick 23) - wouldn't be cheap
Western Bulldogs - Ed Richards (pick 16) - wouldn't be cheap
Gold Coast - Brayden Fiorini (pick 20)
Melbourne - Sam Weideman (pick 9)

When looking at our list there are also a few positions we really need to add talent to, hopefully for a reasonable price:

Small forwards. Can we pry out a speedy small with goal sense and x-factor? Ian Hill? Jarrod Cameron? Charlie Spargo?

Ruck. We clearly need an additional experienced backup ruck. Maybe a Nathan Vardy or Ben McEvoy type.

Depth KPPs. If we move on Hartigan and Himmelberg our KPPs are paper thin (essentially it's Frampton, Butts and Worrell of those not regularly getting a game). Do we try get Peter Wright on the cheap? Rory Thompson? Lewis Melican? Patrick Ambrose?

We need a huge list turnover in the next few years (I'd consider moving on up to 20 players on our current list), so we're going to need to pull these moves

I don't feel like we need Witherden.
He's a bit of a turnover merchant, and we have plenty in that position.
Every time I've seen him he's come across as a bit lackadaisical the way he goes about it, and we have PLENTY of those players.

I feel like Hamill will do just fine at a fraction of the cost both contract and at the trade table.

Weidemann is a big yes though.

 

[DJ75]

I don't feel like we need Witherden.
He's a bit of a turnover merchant, and we have plenty in that position.
Every time I've seen him he's come across as a bit lackadaisical the way he goes about it, and we have PLENTY of those players.

I feel like Hamill will do just fine at a fraction of the cost both contract and at the trade table.

Weidemann is a big yes though.

Will Brodie and Sam Weidemann would both be good gets.

 

[Betts are off]

I don't feel like we need Witherden.
He's a bit of a turnover merchant, and we have plenty in that position.
Every time I've seen him he's come across as a bit lackadaisical the way he goes about it, and we have PLENTY of those players.

I feel like Hamill will do just fine at a fraction of the cost both contract and at the trade table.

Weidemann is a big yes though.

Wait, Alex Witherden is a turnover merchant? I was under the impression his footskills were his strength.

I just checked on the 2019 AFL average turnovers (below) and he's 179th on that list. Surrounded by other highly rated HBFers Sam Lloyd, Adam Saad, Connor McKenna, Matt Suckling, Kade Simpson, Shannon Hurn, Wayne Milera... And to be honest the list goes on and on.

I think his level of turnovers is pretty standard for the position he plays.

2019 AFL League Turnovers Per Game Leaders

2019 AFL League Turnovers Per Game Leaders.

www.footywire.com

 

[Betts are off]

Well, he is from Adelaide (so presumably won't turn up his nose at even the idea of living here), he was a high draft pick at a club that can't give him opportunity, he's out of contract and doesn't seem to be looking to re-sign, he plays a position of need (which is probably everywhere at the moment), he's in the right age range for us ...

At this point it’s hard to find an argument against not having some interest in him other then;

“He hasn’t surpassed the 8-9 outrageously high draft picks and established guns in the GWS midfield in 1.2 seasons so he must be s**t”

 

[Betts are off]

Gawler I believe.
Originally Canberra and most of his family relations apart from his immediate family live in NSW.

Wasn't his dad the Principal at Xavier? I fuzzily remember the AFL draft commentators speaking about that between their repeat pans to his surprisingly hot mom!

 

[SaltPeter]

Wasn't his dad the Principal at Xavier? I fuzzily remember the AFL draft commentators speaking about that between their repeat pans to his surprisingly hot mom!

Trinity, in Adelaides north. He was at St Peters prior to that (not principle)

 

[Betts are off]

Trinity, in Adelaides north. He was at St Peters prior to that (not principle)

Yep, that's the one

 

[MRB37]

If we're going to be successful at the rebuild, we need to be targeting out of favor first round type talents and using late picks to get them. Think us getting Tom Lynch, North getting Aidan Bonar or Brisbane getting Callum Ah Chee

Here are some possible targets:

GWS - Xavier O'Halloran (pick 22)
Gold Coast - Will Brodie (pick 9)
Carlton - Lochie O'Brien (pick 10)
Brisbane - Alex Witherden (pick 23) - wouldn't be cheap
Western Bulldogs - Ed Richards (pick 16) - wouldn't be cheap
Gold Coast - Brayden Fiorini (pick 20)
Melbourne - Sam Weideman (pick 9)

When looking at our list there are also a few positions we really need to add talent to, hopefully for a reasonable price:

Small forwards. Can we pry out a speedy small with goal sense and x-factor? Ian Hill? Jarrod Cameron? Charlie Spargo?

Ruck. We clearly need an additional experienced backup ruck. Maybe a Nathan Vardy or Ben McEvoy type.

Depth KPPs. If we move on Hartigan and Himmelberg our KPPs are paper thin (essentially it's Frampton, Butts and Worrell of those not regularly getting a game). Do we try get Peter Wright on the cheap? Rory Thompson? Lewis Melican? Patrick Ambrose?

We need a huge list turnover in the next few years (I'd consider moving on up to 20 players on our current list), so we're going to need to pull these moves

Freo into Witherden pretty heavy along with Charlie Constable and Noah Balta too.

 

[Lach72]

Freo into Witherden pretty heavy along with Charlie Constable and Noah Balta too.

Wot now?

 

[Mego Red]

Gawler I believe.
Originally Canberra and most of his family relations apart from his immediate family live in NSW.

Gawler is pretty much a suburb of Adelaide now.

It's not so much whether he heart is fixed on living in Adelaide as it is "does the idea completely disgust him?"

Sounds like he'd at least not consider living here a negative

 

[Mego Red]

Mutineer pointed out (correct me if I'm wrong) our project player in Ronin Occonor (2019 draft pick 42). From his profile, big body midfielder (191cm/85kg), he had a slender frame when first drafted but has added a few kgs over the preseason. I think opinion was that he definitely would have been drafted in the following year's draft, so why not take him earlier and get some time in a professional environment (relatively speaking for the AFC).

His profile reads pretty nicely, just curious how he stacks up to Hately in terms of skill. Havent seen anything of him, so can anyone comment on his skillset vs Hately?

O'Connor taken late in a mediocre draft, Hately taken early in a superdraft.