Why do people call Steve Bracks a socialist?

[Sir_Adrian84]

Socialism would be the eventual dream, we might actually get something done rather than a do-nothing leader that they are.

 

[dan warna]

Socialism would be the eventual dream, we might actually get something done rather than a do-nothing leader that they are.

<shrug> i just think its a term they through around, they probably dont even know what liberalism and socialism actually mean.

 

[AndSmithMustScore]

Iv'e never heard him called that.

 

[dan warna]

Iv'e never heard him called that.

it gets thrown around, 'get rid of howard the nazi' vs 'I hope the libs beat those commies in power' etc etc.

it depends on your perspective I guess

 

[Alvin Teal]

I could call Steve Bracks any one of a hundred names

Good old ' Thievin' Steven ' is about as close to a socialist as I've ever seen in Australian politics, in my lifetime.
He operates very much on that ' Robin Hood ' principle of ' steal from the rich to give to the poor ' his obsession with speed cameras is morbid - I noted on an Xmas visit they're now fixed to every single bridge on the Princes Highway!!
As well as that a lot of his policies are very socialist.

 

[dan warna]

I could call Steve Bracks any one of a hundred names

Good old ' Thievin' Steven ' is about as close to a socialist as I've ever seen in Australian politics, in my lifetime.
He operates very much on that ' Robin Hood ' principle of ' steal from the rich to give to the poor ' his obsession with speed cameras is morbid - I noted on an Xmas visit they're now fixed to every single bridge on the Princes Highway!!
As well as that a lot of his policies are very socialist.

Im a big fan of speed camera's and booze busses and drug busses. too many idiots on the road.

steals from the rich? in what way?

which policies of his are socialist?

 

[medusala]

With Brack's attitude towards PPP's I would think its difficult to label him as a socialist.

 

[Alvin Teal]

Im a big fan of speed camera's and booze busses and drug busses. too many idiots on the road.

You're right there. Those ones who spend most of the time looking at the speedo and not at the road in front of them - or crawling along at 20 kmh below the speed limit.
This is one of the main things that worries me about the political landscape in Australia: the fact there are so many people who fail to see what these things really are - taxes by stealth.

steals from the rich? in what way?

In Bracks' view of the world, anyone who can afford to own and operate a car, or own a property, etc is ' rich ' and therefore must be targeted for maximum tax, usually by stealth as above. Does the money get put back into infrastructure?? No sir.

which policies of his are socialist?

Which aren't?

 

[dan warna]

You're right there. Those ones who spend most of the time looking at the speedo and not at the road in front of them - or crawling along at 20 kmh below the speed limit.
This is one of the main things that worries me about the political landscape in Australia: the fact there are so many people who fail to see what these things really are - taxes by stealth.

In Bracks' view of the world, anyone who can afford to own and operate a car, or own a property, etc is ' rich ' and therefore must be targeted for maximum tax, usually by stealth as above. Does the money get put back into infrastructure?? No sir.


Which aren't?

er we have two cars, one has a small warning when u go over the speed limit, I have it set at 63/83/103. the other will be replaced sometime in the next 12 months.

It takes me less than a fraction of a second to monitor the speed limit, it probably takes me more time to check the rear vision mirror and the blind spot.

nothing to do with taxes by stealth, haven't paid a traffic fine in this more stricter period in over 15 years. how can it be a tax if you dont break the law, i drive in the city and my wife does a round trip of of 100 kms 4 or 5 times a week, and neither of us have had a traffic fine, I see no problem in it, in fact i would like every set of lights fitted out with a red light camera.

er we have two cars and a motorcycle, we are not super wealthy but comfortable, and I have no problems with our road laws. We are probably going to be stung with the capital gains tax this FY, but really thats based on the choice of investments we have made and thats a federal issue not a state issue.

 

[Alvin Teal]

er we have two cars, one has a small warning when u go over the speed limit, I have it set at 63/83/103. the other will be replaced sometime in the next 12 months.

It takes me less than a fraction of a second to monitor the speed limit, it probably takes me more time to check the rear vision mirror and the blind spot.

nothing to do with taxes by stealth, haven't paid a traffic fine in this more stricter period in over 15 years. how can it be a tax if you dont break the law, i drive in the city and my wife does a round trip of of 100 kms 4 or 5 times a week, and neither of us have had a traffic fine, I see no problem in it, in fact i would like every set of lights fitted out with a red light camera.

er we have two cars and a motorcycle, we are not super wealthy but comfortable, and I have no problems with our road laws. We are probably going to be stung with the capital gains tax this FY, but really thats based on the choice of investments we have made and thats a federal issue not a state issue.

Then that's fair enough. You seem to be acting responsibly and doing what you can to avoid the issue, so that's fine by me.
Not everyone can afford to do these things though. That's the problem.

My description of Bracks as a socialist, or more accurately, a plonker of the highest order, does not revolve solely around this issue - it's a fair chunk of it, but it's just one piece of the jigsaw.
Remember immediately after he came to power in 1999 and the electricity union started a campaign of rolling strikes in one of the hottest summers on record? What did he do? Nothing.
A lot of his policies revolve around spending huge amounts for unnecessary projects which are supposed to benefit everyone but the blowouts will hurt everyone in the long run.
And what of all his blow and bluster about increasing police numbers??

 

[FIGJAM]

The only times I've been stung by cameras within the past 5 years, is once in Wodonga, once in Colac and once on Anakie Road Geelong.

The common denominator were all that they were is areas that I literally never drive in and thus was ignorant of the speed limit. And they'll be roads which you can park two semis accross and which have a 60 speed limit.

I drive up and down the Westgate/Princes Fwy all day long for work and have never had a fine.

In essence, I think cameras are situated within spots which can capitalise on the ignorant, so if you're in a foreign area, be extra mindful of the speed limit and if in doubt take the lower end of the likely limit.

As for Bracksy and limited activity, I think the one interesting sign is that I got the new Melway the otherday and there are stuff all changes to the transport network. Not even many "mooted" road systems. Lots and lots of studies about what we can do, to be further followed by more feasibility studies on something else, which will in turn need to be verified by another study. Once that study comes back, Parliament can debate it and probably agree to conduct another study.

 

[dan warna]

Then that's fair enough. You seem to be acting responsibly and doing what you can to avoid the issue, so that's fine by me.
Not everyone can afford to do these things though. That's the problem.

My description of Bracks as a socialist, or more accurately, a plonker of the highest order, does not revolve solely around this issue - it's a fair chunk of it, but it's just one piece of the jigsaw.
Remember immediately after he came to power in 1999 and the electricity union started a campaign of rolling strikes in one of the hottest summers on record? What did he do? Nothing.
A lot of his policies revolve around spending huge amounts for unnecessary projects which are supposed to benefit everyone but the blowouts will hurt everyone in the long run.
And what of all his blow and bluster about increasing police numbers??

not afford to look at the speedo?

so hes not a socialist but a plonker? where do plonkers sit in the political spectrum?
the power companies were sold by kennett, why is it bracks problem? as long as the union followed the law, i dont have a problem with the withdrawal of labor.

I am no fan of bracks, but a socialist? as for wasting money, you only have to look at the massive waste by the howard government, the stealth fighters, the superseasprites, subsidies for private health insurance, the FTA with the US is costing the australian economy billions, the war in iraq etc etc, Bracksie will hvae a long way to go to waste money like howard has.

 

[Alvin Teal]

not afford to look at the speedo?

so hes not a socialist but a plonker? where do plonkers sit in the political spectrum?
the power companies were sold by kennett, why is it bracks problem? as long as the union followed the law, i dont have a problem with the withdrawal of labor.

I am no fan of bracks, but a socialist? as for wasting money, you only have to look at the massive waste by the howard government, the stealth fighters, the superseasprites, subsidies for private health insurance, the FTA with the US is costing the australian economy billions, the war in iraq etc etc, Bracksie will hvae a long way to go to waste money like howard has.

Dan, I've enjoyed the debate in this thread and the other with you, but I fear it's now starting to go off course. Let's continue another time, huh?

 

[Alvin Teal]

As for Bracksy and limited activity, I think the one interesting sign is that I got the new Melway the otherday and there are stuff all changes to the transport network. Not even many "mooted" road systems. Lots and lots of studies about what we can do, to be further followed by more feasibility studies on something else, which will in turn need to be verified by another study. Once that study comes back, Parliament can debate it and probably agree to conduct another study.

Public transport is another area where Bracks loses major points IMO. You guys have the potential to have a world class PT system, but it's being run in a totally shambolic manner.

The medical system is also in disarray, if my information sources are correct.

 

[dan warna]

Public transport is another area where Bracks loses major points IMO. You guys have the potential to have a world class PT system, but it's being run in a totally shambolic manner.

The medical system is also in disarray, if my information sources are correct.

the PT is privately owned by and large, we have a city bigger than most small european countries and only 4 million people.

the medical system has a lot of delays but also it is treating far more clients than ever before. the turn over of patients is significantly higher than under kennett.

 

[Monkster]

Public transport is another area where Bracks loses major points IMO. You guys have the potential to have a world class PT system, but it's being run in a totally shambolic manner.

The medical system is also in disarray, if my information sources are correct.

Melbourne PT > Brisbane PT, can't comment on other states as I haven't caught PT there.

 

[pmad87]

Just don't speed, you ****************s. And don't say you have to continually look at the speedo to know if you're under the speed limit. I'm guessing you've all been driving longer than I have (22 months) and I can tell whether im under or over without looking at the speedo.

 

[FuManchu]

Seems to be just a lot of Anti Victorian sentiment by someone who uses a number of guises on this forum.

lets look at the facts, the transport systems in most australian cities are lacking. each state has well publicised medical system shortcomings, each state imposes financial penalties on drivers for speeding using the same radar devices.

seems to me, that the complaints levelled at Victoria, can be levelled at every state in this federation.

 

[FIGJAM]

Melbourne PT > Brisbane PT, can't comment on other states as I haven't caught PT there.

Sydney's the worst I've ever caught anywhere in the world.

Adelaide's is good considering a strong reliance on busses. I think every city should have at least one O-Bahn!

Melbourne's is very good. I personally don't see much "shambolic manner" about it. The trains have been stuffing up from time to time, but other than that it's pretty smooth.

Melbourne will never be world class in the London style of world class, but for one of the biggest geographical cities on the planet (with an actual population), it runs very well.

 

[Alvin Teal]

Melbourne PT > Brisbane PT, can't comment on other states as I haven't caught PT there.

You think?
I've used the rail a bit in Brisbane and found the train service to be excellent.
Mainly on the Caboolture / Nambour line and the connecting bus / rail links to Maroochydore.
Can't say as I've had too many experiences of good service or efficiency on the Melbourne system and it is horribly expensive.

 

[FuManchu]

You think?
I've used the rail a bit in Brisbane and found the train service to be excellent.
Mainly on the Caboolture / Nambour line and the connecting bus / rail links to Maroochydore.
Can't say as I've had too many experiences of good service or efficiency on the Melbourne system and it is horribly expensive.

so if you lived in Scarborough or the Redlands, you'd be content with the service then?

 

[FIGJAM]

Can't say as I've had too many experiences of good service or efficiency on the Melbourne system and it is horribly expensive.

Works relative to cost of living and cost of alternatives such as parking your car in the city. Sydney's is amazingly expensive, and you can't even use one ticket for various modes of transport.

Adelaide's is incredibly cheap. Cost me $2.30 to get from the airport to the other side of town last time I visited a mate.

 

[shaz63]

so if you lived in Scarborough or the Redlands, you'd be content with the service then?

What is wrong with the public transport in Scarborough?? I lived in Perth for quite a number of years and never had any hassle there with the pt systems..

Trains and buses ran quite frequently. Unless things have changed suddenly.

 

[FuManchu]

What is wrong with the public transport in Scarborough?? I lived in Perth for quite a number of years and never had any hassle there with the pt systems..

Trains and buses ran quite frequently. Unless things have changed suddenly.

err scarborough Brisbane

 

[shaz63]

err scarborough Brisbane

My apologies.. I thought you meant Perth.. Didnt know there was one in Brisbane.