Tom Lynch.
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List Mgmt. 2020 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy
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Tom Lynch.
Did you feel adequately compensated for Kelly last year?
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TheBrownDog
I thought we got slightly more than we should have then and now.
Having said that the actual trade netted Sam De Koening, Jeremy Sharpe, Cam Teheny and a late 1st round pick this year that will be as high as 20 even with the with the Eagles laying an egg this year. Plus they have our 3rd from this year.
It sounds a lot better to quote picks on paper and Big Footy and then add the ridiculous Mayo Gold Coast added on later which has now just morphed into the trade with hindsight.
All of a sudden Tim Kelly is already off to a one lap lead.
It sounds a lot better to quote picks on paper and Big Footy and then add the ridiculous Mayo Gold Coast added on later which has now just morphed into the trade with hindsight.
All of a sudden Tim Kelly is already off to a one lap lead.
Colonial
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Sook on your own board.
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TheBrownDog
To clarify my last comment i felt kelly was worth 2 firsts on his form at the time since they were always likely to be in the teens (they turned out to be 16 and 15). The 37 we got (which we forwarded to adelaide) was cancelled out by the 2 R3s we sent back so i thought we got overs to the value of pick 24 (trade was 16 15 24 and 37 for kelly and 2 R3s). Now i think cameron is worth more than kelly as key forwards are harder to find but on the other hand he is 2 years older so on balance i think their trade value isnt too dissimilar. So id mark cameron at 2 picks in the teens plus a steak knives level player. I suppose the two issues there are what both sides define a steak knives player as and whether any such player is willing to be traded. If not id probably peg it at 2 firsts and a second for cameron and say a late pick (3rd or 4th) or aeound that mark. But who knows what the clubs will do.
Peel67skin
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Kelly was traded 1 year ago, so Cameron traded this year (1 year older + 1 year later) = 2 years older when traded.
No worries. Just seen that trade misquoted over and over and over again and many are using this as a benchmark. In the end it will be for 1 pick under 20 being #16.
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Nope.
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TheBrownDog
Sorry i should have clarified that i meant older when traded...wce may well get more years of service out of kelly than cameron potentially.
Jesus your arrogance is delicious and i desperately can’t wait to tag and re tag you each week when you are wrong
I’m sorry tag me now. You asked a question on whether compensation for Kelly was adequate. What part of the above is wrong? Aggoance for stating a fact?. The Kelly deal so often benchmarked in conversation about this Cameron trade will work out to be one pick under 20. None under 16. Fair or unfair that’s what it was.
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Perhaps you can clarify - are you saying the Kelly trade resulted in one pick under 20, or are you saying one pick under 20 is all that a Cameron trade would/should get?
Miguel Sanchez
Snide Shooter
You’ve currently got 15 this year, do you think it’ll be pushed back that far?
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So, I don't believe that Geelong will walk away from Jezza without exploring a bunch of trading options - they would have war-gamed various options including a match. Of course they'll have their 'break point' at which they'll pack it in, but there's at least going to be negotiation IMHO.
If we can't get Clark as a player, I'd like us to try for Alex Witherden. He has his limitations but I think given our loss of both Shaw & Williams he would be useful - as long as we don't break the bank for him. A three-way trade might look like:
Geelong: give up picks 13, 15 & Cockatoo
Brisbane: receive Cockatoo & 15, give up 18 & Witherden
GWS: give up Cameron, receive 13, 18 & Witherden.
(All picks obviously before any academy/FS/NGA pushbacks.)
That's the '2 first round picks & a player' that GWS has reportedly asked for out of Geelong, but Cockatoo would be more amenable to the Cats than Clark, Simpson, or de Koning.
The incoming to GWS is still '2 first round picks & a player', but Witherden is a better player than Cockatoo (IMHO) with a slightly worse first round pick.
The trick would be whether Brisbane would be happy with that deal - a 3 pick upgrade in the first round while also getting Cockatoo whom they reportedly want. IMHO that's not far off being reasonable, if Witherden was to decide to leave (we'd need to convince him that he's got a first grade spot locked up with us). Cockatoo is probably worth a third round pick, so the total value for Witherden is equivalent to early 30s. We could do a later pick swap to add further value.
To me, bringing in Hogan, Preuss & Witherden would meet the desire for players not just picks; while leaving us with 10, 13, 18 & 30 + Hately & Caldwell's recompense to play with, for 4 list spots (or 5 or 6 if we decided to delist guys like Sproule & Reid, which I doubt if we're concerned about experience). Plenty that we can juggle around.
Of course, I don't expect Geelong to like that proposal.
If we can't get Clark as a player, I'd like us to try for Alex Witherden. He has his limitations but I think given our loss of both Shaw & Williams he would be useful - as long as we don't break the bank for him. A three-way trade might look like:
Geelong: give up picks 13, 15 & Cockatoo
Brisbane: receive Cockatoo & 15, give up 18 & Witherden
GWS: give up Cameron, receive 13, 18 & Witherden.
(All picks obviously before any academy/FS/NGA pushbacks.)
That's the '2 first round picks & a player' that GWS has reportedly asked for out of Geelong, but Cockatoo would be more amenable to the Cats than Clark, Simpson, or de Koning.
The incoming to GWS is still '2 first round picks & a player', but Witherden is a better player than Cockatoo (IMHO) with a slightly worse first round pick.
The trick would be whether Brisbane would be happy with that deal - a 3 pick upgrade in the first round while also getting Cockatoo whom they reportedly want. IMHO that's not far off being reasonable, if Witherden was to decide to leave (we'd need to convince him that he's got a first grade spot locked up with us). Cockatoo is probably worth a third round pick, so the total value for Witherden is equivalent to early 30s. We could do a later pick swap to add further value.
To me, bringing in Hogan, Preuss & Witherden would meet the desire for players not just picks; while leaving us with 10, 13, 18 & 30 + Hately & Caldwell's recompense to play with, for 4 list spots (or 5 or 6 if we decided to delist guys like Sproule & Reid, which I doubt if we're concerned about experience). Plenty that we can juggle around.
Of course, I don't expect Geelong to like that proposal.
So, I don't believe that Geelong will walk away from Jezza without exploring a bunch of trading options - they would have war-gamed various options including a match. Of course they'll have their 'break point' at which they'll pack it in, but there's at least going to be negotiation IMHO.
If we can't get Clark as a player, I'd like us to try for Alex Witherden. He has his limitations but I think given our loss of both Shaw & Williams he would be useful - as long as we don't break the bank for him. A three-way trade might look like:
Geelong: give up picks 13, 15 & Cockatoo
Brisbane: receive Cockatoo & 15, give up 18 & Witherden
GWS: give up Cameron, receive 13, 18 & Witherden.
(All picks obviously before any academy/FS/NGA pushbacks.)
That's the '2 first round picks & a player' that GWS has reportedly asked for out of Geelong, but Cockatoo would be more amenable to the Cats than Clark, Simpson, or de Koning.
The incoming to GWS is still '2 first round picks & a player', but Witherden is a better player than Cockatoo (IMHO) with a slightly worse first round pick.
The trick would be whether Brisbane would be happy with that deal - a 3 pick upgrade in the first round while also getting Cockatoo whom they reportedly want. IMHO that's not far off being reasonable, if Witherden was to decide to leave (we'd need to convince him that he's got a first grade spot locked up with us). Cockatoo is probably worth a third round pick, so the total value for Witherden is equivalent to early 30s. We could do a later pick swap to add further value.
To me, bringing in Hogan, Preuss & Witherden would meet the desire for players not just picks; while leaving us with 10, 13, 18 & 30 + Hately & Caldwell's recompense to play with, for 4 list spots (or 5 or 6 if we decided to delist guys like Sproule & Reid, which I doubt if we're concerned about experience). Plenty that we can juggle around.
Of course, I don't expect Geelong to like that proposal.
If we're losing Cocky anyway (which we definitely are) then I have no problem at all with this. It's one of the much more reasonable suggestions that I've seen. Can also be unlocked in a number of different ways, with all the different trades going on this trade period.
You guys are dealing with Melbourne, Fremantle and us, we're dealing with Brisbane, North and you guys. That's 4 other clubs that can solve the 'and a player' problem that exists
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TheBrownDog
So, I don't believe that Geelong will walk away from Jezza without exploring a bunch of trading options - they would have war-gamed various options including a match. Of course they'll have their 'break point' at which they'll pack it in, but there's at least going to be negotiation IMHO.
If we can't get Clark as a player, I'd like us to try for Alex Witherden. He has his limitations but I think given our loss of both Shaw & Williams he would be useful - as long as we don't break the bank for him. A three-way trade might look like:
Geelong: give up picks 13, 15 & Cockatoo
Brisbane: receive Cockatoo & 15, give up 18 & Witherden
GWS: give up Cameron, receive 13, 18 & Witherden.
(All picks obviously before any academy/FS/NGA pushbacks.)
That's the '2 first round picks & a player' that GWS has reportedly asked for out of Geelong, but Cockatoo would be more amenable to the Cats than Clark, Simpson, or de Koning.
The incoming to GWS is still '2 first round picks & a player', but Witherden is a better player than Cockatoo (IMHO) with a slightly worse first round pick.
The trick would be whether Brisbane would be happy with that deal - a 3 pick upgrade in the first round while also getting Cockatoo whom they reportedly want. IMHO that's not far off being reasonable, if Witherden was to decide to leave (we'd need to convince him that he's got a first grade spot locked up with us). Cockatoo is probably worth a third round pick, so the total value for Witherden is equivalent to early 30s. We could do a later pick swap to add further value.
To me, bringing in Hogan, Preuss & Witherden would meet the desire for players not just picks; while leaving us with 10, 13, 18 & 30 + Hately & Caldwell's recompense to play with, for 4 list spots (or 5 or 6 if we decided to delist guys like Sproule & Reid, which I doubt if we're concerned about experience). Plenty that we can juggle around.
Of course, I don't expect Geelong to like that proposal.
Geelong would be fine with that we would like to keep cocky but i think we accepted a while ago he was out the door. But i doubt brisbane will be not least because witherden is contracted and cockatoo would be lucky to net us a R3 at best. I think they would want say a mid R2 and cockatoo to trade witherden and maybe a late pick with him..if he wants to go.
I like the idea of involving a third club though..im still wondering if we can send a player to melb or freo to unlock preuss or hogan for you and that might unlock the cameron deal.
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Callums_Guns
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Hogan you would think would be part of a deal with WCE
GWS : Send Zac Langdon to WCE
WCE : Send Pick#54 to FRE
FRE : Send Hogan to GWS
Pick number may drop down to the 40's if other trades are completed prior, however it's a salary dump / fire sale for Fremantle in which all risk is being handed over to us
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That is what I am figuring will be the play. The only question is whether we wait until Jezza is gone, or do it anyway.
Callums_Guns
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You would assume it will be a slow few days
That’s a quality scenario tbhSo, I don't believe that Geelong will walk away from Jezza without exploring a bunch of trading options - they would have war-gamed various options including a match. Of course they'll have their 'break point' at which they'll pack it in, but there's at least going to be negotiation IMHO.
If we can't get Clark as a player, I'd like us to try for Alex Witherden. He has his limitations but I think given our loss of both Shaw & Williams he would be useful - as long as we don't break the bank for him. A three-way trade might look like:
Geelong: give up picks 13, 15 & Cockatoo
Brisbane: receive Cockatoo & 15, give up 18 & Witherden
GWS: give up Cameron, receive 13, 18 & Witherden.
(All picks obviously before any academy/FS/NGA pushbacks.)
That's the '2 first round picks & a player' that GWS has reportedly asked for out of Geelong, but Cockatoo would be more amenable to the Cats than Clark, Simpson, or de Koning.
The incoming to GWS is still '2 first round picks & a player', but Witherden is a better player than Cockatoo (IMHO) with a slightly worse first round pick.
The trick would be whether Brisbane would be happy with that deal - a 3 pick upgrade in the first round while also getting Cockatoo whom they reportedly want. IMHO that's not far off being reasonable, if Witherden was to decide to leave (we'd need to convince him that he's got a first grade spot locked up with us). Cockatoo is probably worth a third round pick, so the total value for Witherden is equivalent to early 30s. We could do a later pick swap to add further value.
To me, bringing in Hogan, Preuss & Witherden would meet the desire for players not just picks; while leaving us with 10, 13, 18 & 30 + Hately & Caldwell's recompense to play with, for 4 list spots (or 5 or 6 if we decided to delist guys like Sproule & Reid, which I doubt if we're concerned about experience). Plenty that we can juggle around.
Of course, I don't expect Geelong to like that proposal.
Really like ot
Colonial
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TheBrownDog
Thats possible hadnt thought of that.
My thought was more we know north are losing higgins to geelong plus brown to melb who in turn are losing preuss to you guys...if there are players on our end who are willing to move but not leave vic us sending players or picks to melb to get preuss done then you get preuss + 2 first rounders for cameron might be viable. Understandably youd probably want more though.
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