When will the Carlton FC Arrive?

[Chief]

Part 2 of this thread is here:

When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

PART 1 of this thread is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/when-will-the-carlton-fc-arrive.1259822/ ============= We're all thinking it. We're watching this story play out for the 4th time in the last 20 years and it's the same story every time. They have a great list of exciting...

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[Spanish_Fly]

I wonder who the 5 ahead of him were?

Well we should be able to safely presume that one of them was Walsh.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Carlton's Norm Smith moment, the Ratten curse to hover for two decades.

Still laugh at their season promo from around 2010 "They know we're coming" - and then they promptly went south. On a par with Essendon's 2012 promo "Whatever it takes"

Stocker, wasn't he the top 6 pick they got for a steal at pick 19? What's he up to?

Ah, I miss Bolton's 66 game rebuild with all its "green shoots"

I would say their norm smith moment was getting whacked for cap breaches

Carlton are still paying for that and John Elliot's arrogance

 

[La Dispute]

I would say their norm smith moment was getting whacked for cap breaches

Carlton are still paying for that and John Elliot's arrogance

That was almost 2 decades ago, not really relevant anymore.

The club we most closely resemble is Melbourne IMO. Made the finals briefly from 2009-2011 (and then by default in 2013), got ahead of ourselves and then ended up torching the list again.

 

[JayJ20]

nah nah nah....lets not wait until the end of the season to judge.

Lets go off two games against the team that won the flag in 2020 and the team that finished 6th.

Aren't Carlton supposed to be pushing for finals though? If so, then they'd need to start beating other top 8 sides to get there. Last nights game should have been a statement game.

Starting 0-2 for the 9th straight year isn't the way to make finals.

 

[Milanista28]

Joking right?

Nope, he's the reason we've sucked for 20 years.

 

[Beerfish]

Starting 0-2 for the 9th straight year isn't the way to make finals.

Days since Carlton didn't start a season 0-2..

 

[00Stinger]

#godees have not won a flag before the invention of colour TV and man landed on the Moon. You lot need to pipe down until you actually can win a flag (if ever)

lol

Maybe we should take some tips from your mob. Your record since you haven't been able to cheat the salary cap has been impeccable

 

[iluvparis]

Aren't Carlton supposed to be pushing for finals though? If so, then they'd need to start beating other top 8 sides to get there. Last nights game should have been a statement game.

Starting 0-2 for the 9th straight year isn't the way to make finals.

I reckon we would be about 2 and 25 in statement games in the last 20 years - we generally fold easily when there is something on the lie.

 

[Kwality]

First colour TV demonstration was 1944, we beat its invention by a good 20 years thanks.

There were very good colour film covering the 50s flag, not sure it'd be as good on small screens.

 

[bourbons]

Can't possibly loose to Freo next week.

If we don't beat them by plenty questions should rightly be asked.

Got a feeling it will instead be a close fought ugly game and we probably get over the line by a kick or 2. Takes the pressure off but make no mistake, we are very average.

 

[The 747]

I would say their norm smith moment was getting whacked for cap breaches

Carlton are still paying for that and John Elliot's arrogance

It is something way more than that, they lost a couple of picks and it messed up Pagan's appointment. How many coaches and high draft picks have they had since then? Kruezer and Murphy got drafted number 1 and will end their careers with a side not much better than when they started.

I do like the way Carlton play circa 2020 and 2021 but they just are not in the habit of winning games consistently. Winning is a habit, so is losing (Lombardi).

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Stocker being rated the 6th best kid is the biggest myth ever. He was 6th on our list of needs (mids) and considering how stacked with talls that draft was it makes sense.

RCD, Smith, O’Halloran and McLennan taken after him are hardly guns either. Stocker has played more footy than all four combined. Just a lazy troll.

 

[Great8]

It's a cyclical cluster f*ck. Best way i can describe it.

Welcome to our world

 

[juss]

Too many of their pieces are ringins from other clubs. Nowhere near enough value from their number 1 picks. Murphy, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Weitering and Walsh is nowhere near a good enough return for 5 number 1 picks.

I think their list management is consistently holding them back.

 

[La Dispute]

Stocker being rated the 6th best kid is the biggest myth ever. He was 6th on our list of needs (mids) and considering how stacked with talls that draft was it makes sense.

RCD, Smith, O’Halloran and McLennan taken after him are hardly guns either. Stocker has played more footy than all four combined. Just a lazy troll.

It's the myth that keeps persisting. We weren't taking the King twins, so natural someone like Stocker was in the frame.

Probably still too early, but he was projected as early as the early teens, so not too far off. Plenty of teams were put off by his shocking endurance base and missing the Championships, and fair enough.

I hope they play him soon - one of the few natural footballers we have on our list who also has a bit of mongrel.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

It's the myth that keeps persisting. We weren't taking the King twins, so natural someone like Stocker was in the frame.

Probably still too early, but he was projected as early as the early teens, so not too far off. Plenty of teams were put off by his shocking endurance base and missing the Championships, and fair enough.

I hope they play him soon - one of the few natural footballers we have on our list who also has a bit of mongrel.

Let’s just hope when he finally gets a go it’s in the middle and not a negative back pocket role. I won’t hold my breath.

 

[La Dispute]

Too many of their pieces are ringins from other clubs. Nowhere near enough value from their number 1 picks. Murphy, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Weitering and Walsh is nowhere near a good enough return for 5 number 1 picks.

I think their list management is consistently holding them back.

Nothing to do with the number 1's - all those guys you've listed had good careers with Carlton, some were impacted by injury etc but they played in rubbish teams and that also has an impact. Reckon Brett Deledio reached his potential? He was also pretty injury free until the end of his time at Richmond.

It's our other draft picks that are the issue. Most clubs can produce decent players at all points in both the ND and the rookie draft - we struggle big time in this area.

 

[Soapy V]

Carlton has a cultural issue it needs address and it starts with the coach. I have no idea whether Teague is good enough or not BUT he has an issue with favouring some players (mainly older ones) and being against others. Also trying to make players into something they aren't to suit a game style instead of having a game style to suit the players. He has also made promises to players he has not kept.

The list is talented but is developed poorly. This has been addressed with the addition of a proper Reserves side and Luke Power

Luke Power

Age

45

Ht

180cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.0

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.6

5star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.9

5star

CL

1.9

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

heading development. The issue is what damage has been done in the meantime and how quick can it be fixed?

This has lead to a number of young players not coming on as hoped and other players getting games on average performances. Older players have been kept on when they simply shouldn't have.

The side is also mentally soft. There are few "Leaders" that step up when the going gets tough. It is time for Cripps & Docherty to lead THEIR side.

The club is now simply at a crossroads. It will either step up and become the top side it should or it will fall in another decade of mediocrity. The building blocks are in place but does it have the people at the top to make the hard decisions to go to the next level? I hope so but so far that has been a big NO

Here is to turning it around.

Go Blues

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

While I’m sure it’s fun to pile on, I’m not sure this thread even fully captures how miserable Carlton are.

since 2013 we haven’t been in the top 8 - not even for a round.

since 2013, we have only been above .500 for 1 week (in 2016 we hit 6-5 then promptly lost 10 straight).

Our best players in the last 20 years:
- Fevola - left club in disgrace
- Judd - knee injury, not even a farewell match
- Koutoufides - phenomenal run, knee injury, never the same again
- Whitnall - kicked 81 goals as a teenager. Essentially out the league at 24 with knee problems
- Waite - Carlton prime crippled by injuries; left and went to North (zero compensation) and promptly played all 25 games his first year
- Docherty - made AA, then back to back knee injuries, now a shell of what he was
- Cripps - made AA, bad run of injuries, now a shell of what he was, likely to leave
- Murphy - AFLCA mvp in 2011. Brownlow favourite in 2012 until he had his collarbone broken; repeated the injury in 2014, never the same again
- Kreuzer - crippled by injuries, never hit his peak
- Betts - forced out by Malthouse, multple AA years at Adelaide
- Curnow - breakout year, kicked 7 goals in his last game, 3 straight knee injuries and may never play again
- Gibbs - left for Adelaide in bad circumstances, completely fell apart
- Nick Stevens - broke his neck, out of the league at 28, horrible post football legacy

Which Carlton players can we even look back on fondly from that run as having had the career they deserved? Kade Simpson (zero AA, a solid journeyman hbf)? After that it’s probably Andrew Carazzo, Heath Scotland and Ed Curnow as the guys who you might remember fondly - with almost all the others’ careers coloured by either their injuries or the nature of their departure.

Really, Sam Walsh should just get out while he can...

Thats a lot of bad luck mixed with a few bad list decisions, most of it outside your control unfortunely.

 

[who_let_the_dogs_out]

Too many of their pieces are ringins from other clubs. Nowhere near enough value from their number 1 picks. Murphy, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Weitering and Walsh is nowhere near a good enough return for 5 number 1 picks.

I think their list management is consistently holding them back.

Forget the top end talent. Their good players aren't the issue.

It's the bottom 5 to 7 players in their 22 which is their biggest problem. Some very ordinary players in that group.

 

[La Dispute]

Carlton has a cultural issue it needs address and it starts with the coach. I have no idea whether Teague is good enough or not BUT he has an issue with favouring some players (mainly older ones) and being against others. Also trying to make players into something they aren't to suit a game style instead of having a game style to suit the players. He has also made promises to players he has not kept.

The list is talented but is developed poorly. This has been addressed with the addition of a proper Reserves side and Luke Power heading development. The issue is what damage has been done in the meantime and how quick can it be fixed?

This has lead to a number of young players not coming on as hoped and other players getting games on average performances. Older players have been kept on when they simply shouldn't have.

The side is also mentally soft. There are few "Leaders" that step up when the going gets tough. It is time for Cripps & Docherty to lead THEIR side.

The club is now simply at a crossroads. It will either step up and become the top side it should or it will fall in another decade of mediocrity. The building blocks are in place but does it have the people at the top to make the hard decisions to go to the next level? I hope so but so far that has been a big NO

Here is to turning it around.

Go Blues

Glad we have Liddle on board - his impact has been good, and he has made tough calls when needed.

Not sure Teague is the guy to carry the club forward, but we need to give him a year to assess.

 

[Soapy V]

Glad we have Liddle on board - his impact has been good, and he has made tough calls when needed.

Not sure Teague is the guy to carry the club forward, but we need to give him a year to assess.

Not sure he has that long

 

[Soapy V]

Forget the top end talent. Their good players aren't the issue.

It's the bottom 5 to 7 players in their 22 which is their biggest problem. Some very ordinary players in that group.

On performance YES, on talent NO. That is the issue

 

[Soapy V]

Too many of their pieces are ringins from other clubs. Nowhere near enough value from their number 1 picks. Murphy, Kreuzer, Gibbs, Weitering and Walsh is nowhere near a good enough return for 5 number 1 picks.

I think their list management is consistently holding them back.

I partly disagree. Overall I think it has been good although we have held onto to many older players. Development is another issue. There are many players on the list that are being made to play in positions that don't suit them, older players passed their best being played ahead of young talent and for the last 18 months a lack of proper game time for the younger players

 

[bourbons]

Agree on our inability to develop players. Most other clubs seem to be able to work their first and 2nd round picks into very decent AFL players fairly consistently - outside of ready made freaks like Walsh or Weitering we just seem incapable of that over the last decade.

Reckon Casboult is a good, concrete example of it. Love big Levi and watching him play, but gee whiz, how the guy still had the ball drop he did after 5 years on an AFL list was mind blowing. Know he's improved the last few years but still more susceptible than most to the odd shank ala his first kick last night.