List Mgmt. Adelaide Crows 2021 List Management thread

[Sanders]

Or get picks and trade for ready made players as well as hitting the draft. A player like jordan dawson for example would be a very welcome addition

You should only be doing that after having your 3 years of good draft picks as a foundation. To fill gaps

Depends on where we think we are in regards to Dawson

 

[Crow till I die]

You should only be doing that after having your 3 years of good draft picks as a foundation. To fill gaps

Depends on where we think we are in regards to Dawson

I am thinking that you use your 1st round picks at the draft and then second round on are either draft or trade. Dawson would be at the expense of one of our 2nd round picks if we were trying to get him. At his age and what he offers, he would be here for the next premiership tilt and is going to be a fair chance to be better than a speculative late 20's or late 30's pick as an example.

Of course you have to target tge right type of player to make you better and to be in the right age bracket

 

[Sanders]

I am thinking that you use your 1st round picks at the draft and then second round on are either draft or trade. Dawson would be at the expense of one of our 2nd round picks if we were trying to get him. At his age and what he offers, he would be here for the next premiership tilt and is going to be a fair chance to be better than a speculative late 20's or late 30's pick as an example.

Of course you have to target tge right type of player to make you better and to be in the right age bracket

You’ll struggle to get Dawson for a late 20’s pick

 

[MRB37]

It’s a relatively recent thing around here to realise that maybe Hamish isn’t very good.

I wonder if it’s just started to dawn on the board too? Given his importance to the process, how can you trust so much to someone who is at best… just ok at his job?

Who gets to make the decisions is just one more decision that has to be gotten right.

There’s a reason rebuild-town isn’t a quick stop over for most teams who go through it

Hamish has some quality picks he's pulled out, I'm just very worried about his ability to pick midfielders, which is where we obviously need the most help.

He's got enough hits to say he's not a complete dud, but his midfield record looks something like

2013: Matt Crouch, Riley Knight
2014: Harrison Wigg
2015: Wayne Milera
2016: Jordan Gallucci, Myles Poholke
2018: Chayce Jones, Ned McHenry
2019: Harry Schoenberg, Ronin O'Connor
2020: Luke Pedlar, Sam Berry

So from 2013 to 2018 he's gotten us 1 midfielder we've been able to actually rely on and he's injured this year. Injuries have hit Milera consistently and Jones *might* get back to being a midfielder again, but it's not a great look for him.

At least Schoenberg is fixing that list a bit, have to wait more to see on Pedlar and Berry.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Hamish has some quality picks he's pulled out, I'm just very worried about his ability to pick midfielders, which is where we obviously need the most help.

He's got enough hits to say he's not a complete dud, but his midfield record looks something like

2013: Matt Crouch, Riley Knight
2014: Harrison Wigg
2015: Wayne Milera
2016: Jordan Gallucci, Myles Poholke
2018: Chayce Jones, Ned McHenry
2019: Harry Schoenberg, Ronin O'Connor
2020: Luke Pedlar, Sam Berry

So from 2013 to 2018 he's gotten us 1 midfielder we've been able to actually rely on and he's injured this year. Injuries have hit Milera consistently and Jones *might* get back to being a midfielder again, but it's not a great look for him.

At least Schoenberg is fixing that list a bit, have to wait more to see on Pedlar and Berry.

You forgot Sholl, but your point still stands

 

[Sanders]

Hamish has some quality picks he's pulled out,

No! He doesn’t. And he’s pulled far less of them than par for the league.

The occasional small win doesn’t count. It’s not enough to keep up

This myth of him getting late wins is just that - a myth. All clubs get them.

What matters is that he gets *enough* of these wins, to add to the bread & butter early picks. And it’s inarguable that he doesn’t

I'm just very worried about his ability to pick midfielders, which is where we obviously need the most help.

This is a new excuse that’s appeared in recent days to pretend to look critical. Implication, yes he needs work there but really he’s good elsewhere. He’s not

Midfield is just another area of fail. Alongside others. It just also happens to be the most important

He's got enough hits to say he's not a complete dud, but his midfield record looks something like

2013: Matt Crouch, Riley Knight
2014: Harrison Wigg
2015: Wayne Milera
2016: Jordan Gallucci, Myles Poholke
2018: Chayce Jones, Ned McHenry
2019: Harry Schoenberg, Ronin O'Connor
2020: Luke Pedlar, Sam Berry

So from 2013 to 2018 he's gotten us 1 midfielder we've been able to actually rely on and he's injured this year. Injuries have hit Milera consistently and Jones *might* get back to being a midfielder again, but it's not a great look for him.

At least Schoenberg is fixing that list a bit, have to wait more to see on Pedlar and Berry.

So he’s a dud then.

 

[Sanders]

You forgot Sholl, but your point still stands

We’re bottom because of Hamish’s record

 

[Scorpus]

We’re bottom because of Hamish’s record

It's a contributing factor but our horrendous list management in general is as much to blame

Trading in Gibbs
Forcing out Lyons and getting peanuts
Refusing to trade Jenkins when his value was high
Refusing to trade Lynch when his value was high
Failing to bluff over Brad Crouch and botching his value as a free agent
Giving away Keath and Greenwood
Retaining Thompson for too long
Retaining Douglas for too long
Retaining Mackay for WAY too long
Trading in Hampton and Menzel who were both crap and we also refused to play
Retaining Sloane for too long

It's botched deal after botched deal. We managed to claw back some value from Lever, Cameron and McGovern but ******* hell we stuffed up a great many things which cost us a ton of value

 

[70lethal]

I'll never understand why people seem to prefer a poorer mid that reaches a certain height minimum over a Lachie Neale type. Mark Riccuito was 184cm and could go forward like Dusty and Bont and kick bags. Not because he out-heighted opponents or took contested marks but because he could separate from his opponent. He was probably a big mid at the time but he wasn't but that height as a mid wasn't why he was good up forward too.

There is context your missing.
When was the last time a midfield won a flag with a sub 180cm midfield?
The context was about balance and we have an issue with identifying midfield talent that stops us investing in a bigger body midfielder that can go forward.
There's lucky to be 5 of the last 20 winners of the Norm Smith under 185cm.

 

[Interloperer]

There's a big cargo cult quality to the "rebuild". Like the club thinks that just dropping down the ladder and letting quality players leave will just magically make the club better without doing any work.

Anyway. It's good to compare to Sydney. A team (starting from lower than Adelaide) that hung on to finals for a year longer than the Crows and are now certain to play finals again 3 years later.

 

[70lethal]

There's a big cargo cult quality to the "rebuild". Like the club thinks that just dropping down the ladder and letting quality players leave will just magically make the club better without doing any work.

Anyway. It's good to compare to Sydney. A team (starting from lower than Adelaide) that hung on to finals for a year longer than the Crows and are now certain to play finals again 3 years later.

Mills, Heeney, Blakey, Gulden, Campbell pretty handy gifts

 

[Interloperer]

Mills, Heeney, Blakey, Gulden, Campbell pretty handy gifts

And yet they declined to trade them for magic beans. Strange!

 

[Sanders]

It's a contributing factor but our horrendous list management in general is as much to blame

Trading in Gibbs
Forcing out Lyons and getting peanuts
Refusing to trade Jenkins when his value was high
Refusing to trade Lynch when his value was high
Failing to bluff over Brad Crouch and botching his value as a free agent
Giving away Keath and Greenwood
Retaining Thompson for too long
Retaining Douglas for too long
Retaining Mackay for WAY too long
Trading in Hampton and Menzel who were both crap and we also refused to play
Retaining Sloane for too long

It's botched deal after botched deal. We managed to claw back some value from Lever, Cameron and McGovern but ******* hell we stuffed up a great many things which cost us a ton of value

All of those (bad) decisions were driven by a belief in our drafting being able to supplement and augment.

The faith in that department has been badly misplaced

 

[Sanders]

There's a big cargo cult quality to the "rebuild". Like the club thinks that just dropping down the ladder and letting quality players leave will just magically make the club better without doing any work.

Anyway. It's good to compare to Sydney. A team (starting from lower than Adelaide) that hung on to finals for a year longer than the Crows and are now certain to play finals again 3 years later.

They got their picks right, we got ours wrong. That’s the difference there

The equation isn’t complex, it’s just hard

 

[hey shorty]

Midfield our biggest need but small forward almost as pressing. Any out there worth pursuing? Might be easier to get than a primo mid

It's gotta be Rankine

 

[hey shorty]

This is absolutely true. Thought we could let Keath and Greenwood walk and still be competitive. Didn't realise how little we had both in the tank and coming through

I wonder if Nicks knew exactly what he was walking into when he got here ??

 

[Mego Red]

No! He doesn’t. And he’s pulled far less of them than par for the league.

Do you have any data to support this?

People have put things up previously that showed his late picks and rookie selections were above average.

I tend to think they're correct and you're wrong, but I'm happy to see stats that disprove it.

 

[Sanders]

People have put things up previously that showed his late picks and rookie selections were above average.

No they haven’t. Which is why no one can reproduce it.

Prey tell which teams are we outperforming?

I tend to think they're correct and you're wrong, but I'm happy to see stats that disprove it.

We’re all happy to see statistics that disprove it. Would be delighted.

But to be clear; we’ve missed on early picks, but it’s our later picks that are propping us up? That’s the counter argument?

Interesting

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

How would our team look with B Crouch, Greenwood and Lyons as our starting midfield trio? Lever and Keath down back?
Cameron and McGovern up forward? Minus whatever we got in exchange for them.

 

[1990crow]

How would our team look with B Crouch, Greenwood and Lyons as our starting midfield trio? Lever and Keath down back?
Cameron and McGovern up forward? Minus whatever we got in exchange for them.

Assume everyone is fit.

Brown Talia Lever
Kelly Keath Doedee
Seedsman Crouch Smith
O'Brien Crouch Sloane
Lynch Walker Keays
McGovern Thilthorpe Cameron
Laird Greenwood Lyons Milera

 

[Crow till I die]

You’ll struggle to get Dawson for a late 20’s pick

OOC and we may very well have pick 1 or 2 in the psd. Give him a good enough offer and we can tell sydney what we will pay

 

[Dangerousfield]

Or get picks and trade for ready made players as well as hitting the draft. A player like jordan dawson for example would be a very welcome addition

As if Jordan Dawson is leaving the current Swans (last three games - 100 point thrashing of WC, beat Premiership contenders Bulldogs, gave GWS a six goal start and 4 goal beating and all away from home) for a struggling bottom four outfit like ours. Same with all those GC players "coming home".

We need to stop pissing into the wind with these pipe dreams!

 

[Dangerousfield]

OOC and we may very well have pick 1 or 2 in the psd. Give him a good enough offer and we can tell sydney what we will pay

Dream on, see my previous post

 

[70lethal]

And yet they declined to trade them for magic beans. Strange!

They managed too off load a few others, Rohan, Hannerbury, Jones come to mind.

The point which it seems you ignore is they were not only given sole access to top end talent but at a 20% discount.

They got a bit lucky with Blakey being in a super draft making him dirt cheap.
They happen to sink low and get a high pick before Campbell's bid came.
Their top draft picks from 2019 haven't made it yet.
So 4 top 10 draft gifts are significant, they've had 5 of late and considering we have finished bottom traded for Carlton and GWs 1st and still only had 3 in the same time period shows a flawed system

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

As if Jordan Dawson is leaving the current Swans (last three games - 100 point thrashing of WC, beat Premiership contenders Bulldogs, gave GWS a six goal start and 4 goal beating and all away from home) for a struggling bottom four outfit like ours. Same with all those GC players "coming home".

We need to stop pissing into the wind with these pipe dreams!

Sadly since the whispers of him maybe being a target of ours emerged he's gone to another level. Rankine has the right idea.