Preview Changes vs Collingwood - Round 20, 2021

[Tugga27]

Out - Rotham, In - Barrass
Out - Ryan, In - Winder
Out - Allen, In - Vardy
Don't mind Witherden to the wing over Brander.

Barrass isnt ready.

 

[WCE_phil]

Outs: Brander, Ryan, Kelly, Allen (last 3 are injured or playing injured. Kelly definitely hurt something early in the third)
Ins: Foley, Nelson, Winder and Hope like * Redden is back from injury, I think it'll be 50/50 as I don't think Barrass will be ready.

Play West, Nelson and Redden primarily as mids. We are literally out of options and I thought Gov was very good as a second ruck.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I'd be happy with Winder (if fit) for Ryan as the only change.

Foley medical sub, replacing Brander who shouldn't be anywhere near our 22 until he strings together a run of irresistible form in the WAFL and proves he's up to senior footy.

Calls for Rotham to be dropped are deranged - made a couple of obvious errors but was otherwise excellent. The way he bodylined the loose ball when the Saints were pressing in front of goal - you can't buy that kind of thing

Rotham is a gun and probably the most likely of our young players showing AA ability.

Utterly disagree with Brander. Should be played more on ball not less and at AFL then better.

Don’t need both of West and Hutchings and Brander should have got the nod over one of them.


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[Balls In]

Rotham is a gun and probably the most likely of our young players showing AA ability.

Utterly disagree with Brander. Should be played more on ball not less and at AFL then better.

Don’t need both of West and Hutchings and Brander should have got the nod over one of them.


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Rotham errors directly cost three goals today but he did some good things and was involved at least. Brander just doesn't scream AFL.

 

[ep2018]

God speed Barrass.

 

[DickDunn]

Rotham is a gun and probably the most likely of our young players showing AA ability.

Utterly disagree with Brander. Should be played more on ball not less and at AFL then better.

Don’t need both of West and Hutchings and Brander should have got the nod over one of them.


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I'd really like Brander to come good but he just looked so far off the pace today. What is it about him that would make him a good onballer in your opinion? I haven't really seen him play at WAFL level so I might be missing something there.

For me, he doesn't seem like he has anywhere near enough physicality to play on the ball. He really doesn't seem to handle pressure well and there were times today where he was trying to be too cute when he did have it - almost like he's overestimating his own ability?

 

[Smeg Head]

Pies would be onto a winner playing over here with a crowd if they could. I mean they travel and play the ground well, finals are out for them anyway so would make financial sense.

 

[ziad]

Barrass isnt ready.

Thats an issue for us. Having seen King destroy Harry the pies are likely to play a 2.1m at FF. Harry will develop but at the moment he lacks the smarts and worringly the athletic ability. Our lack of team defence also left him exposed.

 

[ziad]

I'd really like Brander to come good but he just looked so far off the pace today. What is it about him that would make him a good onballer in your opinion? I haven't really seen him play at WAFL level so I might be missing something there.

For me, he doesn't seem like he has anywhere near enough physicality to play on the ball. He really doesn't seem to handle pressure well and there were times today where he was trying to be too cute when he did have it - almost like he's overestimating his own ability?

He is the player I have seen in the WAFL. Just not explosive or agile enough to play midfield. He gets caught like a baby girraf. He is still soft in contests making it difficult to see him as key forward taking the beltings JD does.

I was keen to see him come on for Ruan (not happy with the injury) thinking ok this is you chance to show us what you have.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Mason Cox

46

Mason Cox

Age

33

Ht

211cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.7

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

3.5

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.2

4star

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.8

5star

is gonna rip us a new one again while we sit back and make snide comments about how s**t he is

 

[Tugga27]

Thats an issue for us. Having seen King destroy Harry the pies are likely to play a 2.1m at FF. Harry will develop but at the moment he lacks the smarts and worringly the athletic ability. Our lack of team defence also left him exposed.

Yep

Missed Barrass alright.
But TBF to Harry, King killed everyone that went on him.

 

[Tugga27]

Mason Cox is gonna rip us a new one again while we sit back and make snide comments about how sh*t he is

You can get on with me

 

[ArdentEagle]

King is much faster and more athletic than Cox. It was more the separation that he got that allowed him to clunk some. HE will learn from this.
I'll back HE in to play on the giant and win. Think he'll surprise a few people on this board.

 

[ziad]

Rotham errors directly cost three goals today but he did some good things and was involved at least. Brander just doesn't scream AFL.

Rotham makes 3 a game but his positives are much metter than other options.

 

[ziad]

King is much faster and more athletic than Cox. It was more the separation that he got that allowed him to clunk some. HE will learn from this.
I'll back HE in to play on the giant and win. Think he'll surprise a few people on this board.

Unfortunately I think you are under rating Cox. He is no King but he can lead. Mind you noit sure Barrass would have done a lot better against King. Perhaps saves 1-2 goals?

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

Thats an issue for us. Having seen King destroy Harry the pies are likely to play a 2.1m at FF. Harry will develop but at the moment he lacks the smarts and worringly the athletic ability. Our lack of team defence also left him exposed.

Let's be honest, the way King was grabbing them he was going to kick a bag against any defender. St Kilda has got a gem in King. He will be very difficult to play against once he gets more AFL ready which is a scary prospect.

 

[Chris_6678]

Out: Ryan
In: Winder

Didnt look out of place when played a few months ago.

 

[KERRPOW]

Allen looks and plays banged up. Needs a few weeks off IMO

 

[beatlesmith]

OUT: Ryan, Hutchings
IN: Winder, Brander
Nelson to sub.

Winder may be a bit raw but I in Ryan’s absence we will desperately need pace and pressure in the forward line.

Some harsh criticisms of Brander in here. He was clearly AFL standard and worthy of a spot in the 22 earlier in the season when he had the opportunity to string games together. Then he got injured and now we’ve turned on him again. He played with very little confidence yesterday, but he should be given the opportunity to string games together again. Otherwise we risk losing a player with great traits and potential for the sake of giving Mark Hutchings

34

Mark Hutchings

Age

32

Ht

182cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.8

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.3

5star

CL

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

19.4

5star

K

12.6

5star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

3.6

5star

a swan song on a wing.

I think he has the potential to be a very good complimentary piece to the midfield with athleticism, size and utility to be a point of difference.

 

[Ok Boomer]

In - Winder, Foley
Out - Ryan, Brander

 

[Balls In]

Some harsh criticisms of Brander in here. He was clearly AFL standard and worthy of a spot in the 22 earlier in the season when he had the opportunity to string games together.

He is really struggling. I sincerely hope he comes good but I have McDougall level doubts at this point and for the same reasons. Just no mongrel about him. As a key forward he is well behind Allen and Waterman as a future prospect - would get destroyed by the gorilla key defenders. As a midfielder what does he really offer? Definately not a contested beast and doesnt take a lot of marks around the ground, is slower and less mobile than the smaller players. Overtaken by West imo.

 

[beatlesmith]

He is really struggling. I sincerely hope he comes good but I have McDougall level doubts at this point and for the same reasons. Just no mongrel about him. As a key forward he is well behind Allen and Waterman as a future prospect - would get destroyed by the gorilla key defenders. As a midfielder what does he really offer? Definately not a contested beast and doesnt take a lot of marks around the ground, is slower and less mobile than the smaller players. Overtaken by West imo.

I don’t know how he’s “really struggling”. He had a poor game - his first game in the seniors in eight weeks. West was also ineffectual this week for what it’s worth.

I disagree with your assessment of him and I think that as wingman he offers quite a bit. He’s athletic (certainly more athletic than West or Edwards) and he runs hard to space. He’s good overhead linking play between the forward and back lines (averaging a shade under 5 marks a game). When he’s playing with confidence (as he was earlier in the season) he’s damaging with his ball use and movement in traffic. He’s kicked 5 goals from 10 games, only bettered among midfielders by Sheed (7) and Kelly (6) from more games.

Go back and look at the votes threads for rounds 3-9. He was named among our bests by posters in each game except the Geelong debacle. He was one of our better players for a good chunk of the season. You even made the following glowing comments about him in the match threads
“Elliot Brander looking good”
“Beautiful footy Brander”
“Branders got that knack of kicking it in a way that creates momentum”
“Best I’ve seen Brander”
“ + Picking Brander and then Allen and Ryan!”

West has had one good game out of two so let’s pump the brakes. Entirely premature to say that he has “gone past him”. I like West, but I’m not sure how effective he’s going to be shafted onto a flank/wing full time with Shuey and Redden back and Yeo at 100% fitness. I think Brander is better suited to playing that defensive wing/flank role that our 6th/7th midfielder is forced to play because he doesn’t need to be at the coalface to be effective. I’d play him over Hutchings and then spend the next couple of weeks working out which of he, West and O’Neill make the cut when Shuey and Redden return.

 

[Tugga27]

I don’t know how he’s “really struggling”. He had a poor game - his first game in the seniors in eight weeks. West was also ineffectual this week for what it’s worth.

I disagree with your assessment of him and I think that as wingman he offers quite a bit. He’s athletic (certainly more athletic than West or Edwards) and he runs hard to space. He’s good overhead linking play between the forward and back lines (averaging a shade under 5 marks a game). When he’s playing with confidence (as he was earlier in the season) he’s damaging with his ball use and movement in traffic. He’s kicked 5 goals from 10 games, only bettered among midfielders by Sheed (7) and Kelly (6) from more games.

Go back and look at the votes threads for rounds 3-9. He was named among our bests by posters in each game except the Geelong debacle. He was one of our better players for a good chunk of the season. You even made the following glowing comments about him in the match threads
“Elliot Brander looking good”
“Beautiful footy Brander”
“Branders got that knack of kicking it in a way that creates momentum”
“Best I’ve seen Brander”
“ + Picking Brander and then Allen and Ryan!”

West has had one good game out of two so let’s pump the brakes. Entirely premature to say that he has “gone past him”. I like West, but I’m not sure how effective he’s going to be shafted onto a flank/wing full time with Shuey and Redden back and Yeo at 100% fitness. I think Brander is better suited to playing that defensive wing/flank role that our 6th/7th midfielder is forced to play because he doesn’t need to be at the coalface to be effective. I’d play him over Hutchings and then spend the next couple of weeks working out which of he, West and O’Neill make the cut when Shuey and Redden return.

Not really fair to be comparing Brander To West IMO.
Brander was a high draft pick.

West is a see ball get ball player and is really IMO a depth player.
Has limited skills but at least he tackles and gets hold of it which is what we need right now.

The thing I don't like about Brander is that he plays timid.
If he can't get that out of his game, he won't make it.

 

[beatlesmith]

Not really fair to be comparing Brander To West IMO.
Brander was a high draft pick.

West is a see ball get ball player and is really IMO a depth player.
Has limited skills but at least he tackles and gets hold of it which is what we need right now.

The thing I don't like about Brander is that he plays timid.
If he can't get that out of his game, he won't make it.

I was responding to the other poster who said that West had gone past Brander. Ultimately they’re both going to be competing (along with Hutch, Edwards and O’Neill) for that seventh mid/wing role so some comparison is inevitable.

I agree that Brander does sometimes play timidly. Sometimes he doesn’t. Very much a confidence and form player who plays better when given a role and allowed to string games together. Similar to Petch in that respect.

 

[Balls In]

I don’t know how he’s “really struggling”. He had a poor game - his first game in the seniors in eight weeks. West was also ineffectual this week for what it’s worth.

I disagree with your assessment of him and I think that as wingman he offers quite a bit. He’s athletic (certainly more athletic than West or Edwards) and he runs hard to space. He’s good overhead linking play between the forward and back lines (averaging a shade under 5 marks a game). When he’s playing with confidence (as he was earlier in the season) he’s damaging with his ball use and movement in traffic. He’s kicked 5 goals from 10 games, only bettered among midfielders by Sheed (7) and Kelly (6) from more games.

Go back and look at the votes threads for rounds 3-9. He was named among our bests by posters in each game except the Geelong debacle. He was one of our better players for a good chunk of the season. You even made the following glowing comments about him in the match threads
“Elliot Brander looking good”
“Beautiful footy Brander”
“Branders got that knack of kicking it in a way that creates momentum”
“Best I’ve seen Brander”
“ + Picking Brander and then Allen and Ryan!”

West has had one good game out of two so let’s pump the brakes. Entirely premature to say that he has “gone past him”. I like West, but I’m not sure how effective he’s going to be shafted onto a flank/wing full time with Shuey and Redden back and Yeo at 100% fitness. I think Brander is better suited to playing that defensive wing/flank role that our 6th/7th midfielder is forced to play because he doesn’t need to be at the coalface to be effective. I’d play him over Hutchings and then spend the next couple of weeks working out which of he, West and O’Neill make the cut when Shuey and Redden return.

Been wrong with players before and hopefully am here. I want him to succeed. It was a shocking game though and an opportunity lost. I'm also on the look out for players who break long periods of positive ball movement with momentum killers and Brander had a couple of shockers. Part of it is coaching but if you are taking posession midfield in space but go backwards without looking forward at options then in a big Balls In no no. Do that and fluff the possession resulting in 5minutes of footy stuck at half back, its a droppable offence.