List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

[George]

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

www.bigfooty.com

Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino

38

Oscar Clavarino

Age

26

Ht

197cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Def

No player stats available

Sam Alabakis

45

Sam Alabakis

Age

28

Ht

211cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

No player stats available

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle

2

Jake Carlisle

Age

34

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

8.7

3star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

116.3

2star

D

11.7

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

3.3

2star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

12.4

4star

K

6.4

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

6.6

5star

T

0.8

3star

Dylan Roberton

17

Dylan Roberton

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

373.2

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

1.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

215.0

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

Shaun McKernan

27

Shaun Mckernan

Age

35

Ht

196cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.4

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

17.0

5star

K

8.2

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.2

3star

James Frawley

24

James Frawley

Age

37

Ht

193cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

5.1

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

135.4

2star

D

8.7

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.7

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.9

2star

MG

135.4

2star

D

9.0

3star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan

27

Luke Dunstan

Age

30

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.7

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

13.0

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

9.0

5star

CL

2.0

4star

D

18.2

5star

K

6.0

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

6.2

5star

CL

4.2

5star

(RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie

13

Jack Lonie

Age

29

Ht

175cm

Wt

70kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.8

4star

G

0.9

4star

D

10.7

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.7

4star

D

13.4

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

1.0

4star

- Link
25. Dean Kent

25

Dean Kent

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

8.3

3star

HB

4.5

3star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

10.4

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.2

5star

D

7.6

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.0

5star

G

0.6

3star

- Link
39. Darragh Joyce

41

Darragh Joyce

Age

28

Ht

195cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

3star

MG

207.6

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.4

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

4star

MG

207.6

4star

- Link
41. Paul Hunter

41

Paul Hunter

Age

32

Ht

200cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Ruck

No player stats available

- Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

 

[pebblesofsand]

Back online watching my clubs 9th flag since 2004.

Mayo sadly had a quiet game but the conditions were slippery not rainy. He seemed to hit the packs hard and get his hands to the footy but not clunk them. It's a pity cause his last game against south was as dominant I've seen from a CHF at subi in a long long time. Leading up to this he was marking everything. Just a pity today they didn't stick.

The guy has it. Moves well. Isn't scared. Demands the footy. He looks in awesome nick. It's like Glen jackovich reincarnate.

Here's another name. Nick Martin. He has something.

The reserves were played earlier in the day. Johnsons game I feel isn't a good barometer. It looked like he was playing a pure shutdown role which was super frustrating. I wish he had a run at it. I am worried he has shades of acres though.

Borchet awesome in the reserves. I think 2nd game back after a leg injury saw him miss alot of the season. He would have probably played in Mayo's spot if he didn't get injured.

We ain't missing Parker. He's not a fwd. Not good enough in the midfield. Ball use poor.

Watched the game - Mayo certainly has grown into his body. Contested well in the ruck and really covered the ground well. Don't think the style of game that was played last night suited him.

Of the others - probably certainly Martin looked a possibility. Toby McQuilkin might be a chance if he could borrow a few KG's off Brock Higgins.

Speaking of Higgins - looks like he'd been having a few in the front bar and the coach rang him up to see if he could fill in but jeez he's got pretty good ruck craft for someone who's listed as 193 cm (and 103 kg's)

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

We’ve traded to get 3 of those 6 blokes

Goes back to what I said earlier in the week with our past drafting & poor development has meant we are never ahead of the curve & always overspending at the trade table because our past drafting is horrendous

Ive always argued that Trout’s greatest weakness was that he played it safe. All of the picks that are now rightfully looked back upon with scorn were conservative and considered safe bets at the time.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that our development of young players has been pretty atrocious until recently. I also don’t think its a coincidence that we’ve had the arse out of out pants & our footy dept spend was mile behind most other clubs until they brought in the soft cap.


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[gringo2011]

On what planet is Billings nowhere near best 22 in a top 4 side!?

Seb was also our best player across our two finals last year, including doing an excellent job on Bontempelli.

Hopefully if he stays this gives him the reality check he needs to get right back to his best- which was good enough to make an AA squad, finish top 10 in the coaches votes and win two B&F’s.

The fans have turned him into a barely VFL standard soft **** in their minds in case he left and now the stain is stuck fast. We were running out of whipping boys anyway.

 

[gringo2011]

The worst thing about Dunstan is not really about him - its about the fact that we had no one clearly better than him to fill his spot in the team.

I think that's why he's bitter too. He was clearly our second best mid in his run of games and he's held to a different standard to the others. We don't have a great midfield but he was the one singled out. I think it was already planned in 2020.... he wasn't going to make it and we chased Crouch to replace him.

We had planned to cull Webster, Dunny and drop the wages of Billings and Seb to use their spare money on Ben King and signing up guys like Coff and Clark to the kind of deals that Ross, Dunny and Webster are on so that we can repeat the process.

Webster has no competition and needs to stay around incase Paton never comes good so Dunny goes and we need to extract the extra out of Seb's and Billings' wages.

 

[AirWinmar]

Apparently our players become 10x the player they actually were when they are about to leave

I'd say complete opposite, for some. When a player is leaving then they are crap and have never been any good according to some supporters

 

[George]

I'd say complete opposite, for some. When a player is leaving then they are crap and have never been any good according to some supporters

Whatever fits the narrative they want to peddle. In the case of Dunstan, there's a good body of work there to realise he isn't at the level required for us to improve. Fortunately a handful of games doesn't hold more weight than 7 years.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I think that's why he's bitter too. He was clearly our second best mid in his run of games and he's held to a different standard to the others. We don't have a great midfield but he was the one singled out. I think it was already planned in 2020.... he wasn't going to make it and we chased Crouch to replace him.

We had planned to cull Webster, Dunny and drop the wages of Billings and Seb to use their spare money on Ben King and signing up guys like Coff and Clark to the kind of deals that Ross, Dunny and Webster are on so that we can repeat the process.

Webster has no competition and needs to stay around incase Paton never comes good so Dunny goes and we need to extract the extra out of Seb's and Billings' wages.

Since when did we plan to cull Webster? Amazing how just like the stature of our players is elevated when we lose them, we tend to forget how good they were when they’re injured.

 

[gringo2011]

That’s how I saw it too
To be honest yes they improved but it looked like we simply ran out of gas
I put a lot of that game down to be a poor pre season
If that occurs again Ratten ought to be held accountable

I just read a match report, they kicked 12.19 to our 11.7.

They kicked 19 behinds and 11 OOTF. 30 missed shots! Dougal had 28 disposals and 8 intercepts as well. I'd say we weren't in that match apart from them kicking themselves out of an easy kill.

 

[gringo2011]

Since when did we plan to cull Webster? Amazing how just like the stature of our players is elevated when we lose them, we tend to forget how good they were when they’re injured.

He was nowhere near best 22 and injured in 2020, they would have seen all those legacy contracts as money to take off the books.

 

[gringo2011]

So just to be clear instead of going for players like Brodie or Constable many prefer Naish because he is cheap and the coaches instructions would be pretty simple for him to understand?

I'd prefer Truncheon over Brodie and Constable. He may be no better but he might be. Naish is a free hit at some experienced filler. Worth a roll of the dice if he trains with us and looks okay.

 

[gringo2011]

I think the issue with brodie will be the salary. We just don't have the space in the cap or the appetite for longer term deals.

I thinks there's some ducks and drakes going on between us and essendon in that regard. I think essendon are trying to get us to commit more of our cap to depth. Hopefully we don't bite.

Why Essendon?

 

[AaronSCHQ]

Where did the talk of Clark being traded come from? Something with substance or just a bit of chatter on here?

 

[gringo2011]

Ive always argued that Trout’s greatest weakness was that he played it safe. All of the picks that are now rightfully looked back upon with scorn were conservative and considered safe bets at the time.

I don’t think there’s any doubt that our development of young players has been pretty atrocious until recently. I also don’t think its a coincidence that we’ve had the arse out of out pants & our footy dept spend was mile behind most other clubs until they brought in the soft cap.


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I don't know about that, he just had a knack for missing the good ones. He went safe when we needed some balls and risky when we needed some common sense. I always give him an out because I think we asked him to find clean-skins so he instantly wrote off guys like DeGoey who had attitude. I used to get down to the club for stuff back then and the guys he drafted were absolutely the most polite well mannered kids in footy. Paddy McCartin might have been an average player but he was one of the nicest kids I've met, same with Dmac.

I think we asked a guy that was an old school footy coach with no skills in recruiting and no psychological testing credentials to make decisions he wasn't qualified to make. And gave him 8 years or something.

Development was non existent and we told players to meet standards and markers at Sandy who as a club operated their own program trying to get their own wins. Players met the standards and the communication was up to players to come back and ask for clarification and those standards and markers were changed when Richo didn't want to play them but made out that they weren't ever agreed too.

We really had very little structure or system in place for development and didn't hold anyone to account or even care to look at it. It's the one thing I think Finnis has been an absolute failure in, football department spend has only started to be addressed recently.

I think really assertive young footballers can make it against the tide but when you select kids with compliant personalities and sack players that question the system then you end up with the perfect storm of poor drafting, poor development and poor outcomes.

 

[George]

Where did the talk of Clark being traded come from? Something with substance or just a bit of chatter on here?

Just rubbish. Some bloke from Mt. Eliza reckons Robert Harvey is giving away Hawthorn's trade strategies.

 

[ScrappyDo]

We should trade Coff, Clark and Pato for picks this year, then Batts and Long for future picks.
That way we can finish further down the ladder and get better draft picks to fix the hole in our list in the 21-23yo group.
Makes sense to me...

 

[SaintyMcSaintface]

I don't know about that, he just had a knack for missing the good ones. He went safe when we needed some balls and risky when we needed some common sense. I always give him an out because I think we asked him to find clean-skins so he instantly wrote off guys like DeGoey who had attitude. I used to get down to the club for stuff back then and the guys he drafted were absolutely the most polite well mannered kids in footy. Paddy McCartin might have been an average player but he was one of the nicest kids I've met, same with Dmac.

I think we asked a guy that was an old school footy coach with no skills in recruiting and no psychological testing credentials to make decisions he wasn't qualified to make. And gave him 8 years or something.

Development was non existent and we told players to meet standards and markers at Sandy who as a club operated their own program trying to get their own wins. Players met the standards and the communication was up to players to come back and ask for clarification and those standards and markers were changed when Richo didn't want to play them but made out that they weren't ever agreed too.

We really had very little structure or system in place for development and didn't hold anyone to account or even care to look at it. It's the one thing I think Finnis has been an absolute failure in, football department spend has only started to be addressed recently.

I think really assertive young footballers can make it against the tide but when you select kids with compliant personalities and sack players that question the system then you end up with the perfect storm of poor drafting, poor development and poor outcomes.

Some good insight there.

In regards to Finnis, it's crazy to think of what he inherited. Came in March 2014, club was just coming through significant cap issues and two months earlier had embarked on the delusional Road to 2018 strategy. It's taken time for Finnis to dismantle everything and it's probably gotten easier since a new president came in.

 

[AaronSCHQ]

Just rubbish. Some bloke from Mt. Eliza reckons Robert Harvey is giving away Hawthorn's trade strategies.

No dramas... I saw Rors talking about it and then a few others, could I couldn't be bothered flicking back. Would be a stupid trade to even consider, unless it was for Pick 1.

Also, I don't think Robert Harvey would be privy to all of Hawthorn's trade strategies. I have no idea how the ins and outs of a footy club work. I am sure the coaching group were briefed on possible trades, but they'd be given the list after trade period and told, "here you go".

Side note, I'm a school teacher in Regional VIC (Shepparton). Obviously not thrilled about another lockdown. But for the week or two we are in lockdown, I can turn my attention to the trade period at least, something that I really enjoy! (also golf courses are open!).

 

[bird_man]

I think that's why he's bitter too. He was clearly our second best mid in his run of games and he's held to a different standard to the others. We don't have a great midfield but he was the one singled out. I think it was already planned in 2020.... he wasn't going to make it and we chased Crouch to replace him.

We had planned to cull Webster, Dunny and drop the wages of Billings and Seb to use their spare money on Ben King and signing up guys like Coff and Clark to the kind of deals that Ross, Dunny and Webster are on so that we can repeat the process.

Webster has no competition and needs to stay around incase Paton never comes good so Dunny goes and we need to extract the extra out of Seb's and Billings' wages.

Not sure we are dropping the wages of Billings and Ross just to fit King in.

More likely we are dropping their wages because they haven't lived up to their previous contract size.

If that allows us to get Bing or anyone else with spare cap room then its smart list management not overpaying average players.

Looks like our cap is heading to a healthy spot by not overpaying everyone like we have a few lucky ones.

 

[gringo2011]

We should trade Coff, Clark and Pato for picks this year, then Batts and Long for future picks.
That way we can finish further down the ladder and get better draft picks to fix the hole in our list in the 21-23yo group.
Makes sense to me...

We should see if Gold Coast would take Sharman and Max King for Ben King as well. Generational talent like him are too good to not go after.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

The fans have turned him into a barely VFL standard soft **** in their minds in case he left and now the stain is stuck fast. We were running out of whipping boys anyway.

I’m very confident that JB will make a few of these opinions look very silly next season.

Hope so anyway.


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[Winmar2Lockett]

I don't know about that, he just had a knack for missing the good ones. He went safe when we needed some balls and risky when we needed some common sense. I always give him an out because I think we asked him to find clean-skins so he instantly wrote off guys like DeGoey who had attitude. I used to get down to the club for stuff back then and the guys he drafted were absolutely the most polite well mannered kids in footy. Paddy McCartin might have been an average player but he was one of the nicest kids I've met, same with Dmac.

I think we asked a guy that was an old school footy coach with no skills in recruiting and no psychological testing credentials to make decisions he wasn't qualified to make. And gave him 8 years or something.

Development was non existent and we told players to meet standards and markers at Sandy who as a club operated their own program trying to get their own wins. Players met the standards and the communication was up to players to come back and ask for clarification and those standards and markers were changed when Richo didn't want to play them but made out that they weren't ever agreed too.

We really had very little structure or system in place for development and didn't hold anyone to account or even care to look at it. It's the one thing I think Finnis has been an absolute failure in, football department spend has only started to be addressed recently.

I think really assertive young footballers can make it against the tide but when you select kids with compliant personalities and sack players that question the system then you end up with the perfect storm of poor drafting, poor development and poor outcomes.

When did Trout ever go risky?

Maybe Dmac over Touk… can’t think of any others.

Paddy wasn’t an average player & despite what the short memory merchants will tell you, was showing very good signs when he was on the park…. And in a very very ordinary side mind you.

DeGoey was never in the mix so not sure why he’s even mentioned. May as well ask why Cripps was taken instead of Billings.


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[Joffaboy]

We’ve traded to get 3 of those 6 blokes

Goes back to what I said earlier in the week with our past drafting & poor development has meant we are never ahead of the curve & always overspending at the trade table because our past drafting is horrendous

Different way of looking at it. From those 2 drafts we have over a 3rd of the first 22 (I forgot Membrey).

I don't really care how we get them, you draft those 8 and they would have taken this long to develop.
The drafting from those years was pretty bad, the result from those years pretty good.

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure we are dropping the wages of Billings and Ross just to fit King in.

More likely we are dropping their wages because they haven't lived up to their previous contract size.

If that allows us to get Bing or anyone else with spare cap room than its smart lust management not overpaying average players.

Possibly, we signed them on potential.....which we are doing with Clark and Coffield as well. Trying to push their wages down is a good thing but you need to bring players along selling a dream not put fissures in the playing list. Hopefully they can bring a few around to a vision not make bad blood between the playing group, managers and the club.

I'd say there seems to be a few guys that aren't feeling very appreciated at the moment. I know on here the testosterone fuelled posters will say it's about time and that we should line them up for a kick in the nuts but culture and unification are important. It's hard won and easily lost.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Some good insight there.

In regards to Finnis, it's crazy to think of what he inherited. Came in March 2014, club was just coming through significant cap issues and two months earlier had embarked on the delusional Road to 2018 strategy. It's taken time for Finnis to dismantle everything and it's probably gotten easier since a new president came in.

The Road to 2018 strategy was nothing more than a marketing & membership tactic. Tried to keep people on board until things improved. Unfortunately lots took it as a personal promise.

Finnis has been fantastic in stabilising the club & getting us back to Moorabbin. Lethers has been huge in getting the on field performance heading in the right direction (not withstanding what we hope is just a slip up this year).


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[Joffaboy]

When was Webster on the chopping block?

I have never heard that on here or anywhere.