Opinion Brian Cook - Carlton's rebuild still has a fair way to go

[Arr0w]

I read more than write, but then I see what you did, and remembered you always do the same.

Now it's quite funny, you did exactly what you are telling me to do, the poster put up a decent post and all you did is go on a rant.

Anyway, couldn't be bothered with you, so good luck telling us nothing as usual.

Carlton may be the break out team, but can Voss get them to defend as a team, I doubt it from what I saw last year, too many one way players, and Voss was a failure 1st time round.

So Voss was part of a team that was able to defend, but won't be able to change a poor Teague gameplan and instill a more appropriate gameplan

Then that old chestnut of Voss being a failed coach previously

This is what you are basing your opinions on?

As stated previously, I believe we are in a group that is fighting for 2-3 spots for the 8, beyond that, there are a number of factors, namely injuries to players at all clubs that impact results

 

[00Stinger]

You based your view on certain criteria and it was refuted based on no actual competition trends/history, whether that is player injuries or previous ladder positions

And you just backed my point up

Can't argue with delusional people

This thread is very similar to one last year and one the year before. Carlton supporters over rating their list again. If it was so great then why did none of the proven coaches want the gig?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

 

[LoungeLizard]

So Voss was part of a team that was able to defend, but won't be able to change a poor Teague gameplan and instill a more appropriate gameplan

Then that old chestnut of Voss being a failed coach previously

This is what you are basing your opinions on?

As stated previously, I believe we are in a group that is fighting for 2-3 spots for the 8, beyond that, there are a number of factors, namely injuries to players at all clubs that impact results

And I think you're wrong.

And yes, a failed coach does not inspire me with confidence.

 

[Arr0w]

And you just backed my point up

Can't argue with delusional people

This thread is very similar to one last year and one the year before. Carlton supporters over rating their list again. If it was so great then why did none of the proven coaches want the gig?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

I don't overrated the list at all and I don't share the same views as other supporters, so best you stop playing the man and debate content, if you have anything new

 

[Arr0w]

And I think you're wrong.

And yes, a failed coach does not inspire me with confidence.

Lucky we don't need your approval then

 

[chunkylover53]

So in short, Carlton will be great despite every serious indicator saying otherwise

Seems similar to last year and the year before that and the year before that ext....

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

What were the serious indicators that predicted Melbournes success? And Richmonds before that? Am intrigued.

And you just backed my point up

Can't argue with delusional people

This thread is very similar to one last year and one the year before. Carlton supporters over rating their list again. If it was so great then why did none of the proven coaches want the gig?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

Lol. Pretty selective approach to your argument here.

Clarkson admitted he was tempted but committed to his year off, Lyon didn't want to go through a process. Who else shunned us?

You conveniently ignored that Brian Cook, Adam Cerra, George Hewitt and Lewis Young all went out of their way to come to us. Can't be that doom and gloom, can it?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Going into 2022 with the 11th oldest list, 14th for average games played.

Expectations are too harsh on both sides. We are well on our way but not near contention yet.

 

[00Stinger]

What were the serious indicators that predicted Melbournes success? And Richmonds before that? Am intrigued.



Lol. Pretty selective approach to your argument here.

Clarkson admitted he was tempted but committed to his year off, Lyon didn't want to go through a process. Who else shunned us?

You conveniently ignored that Brian Cook, Adam Cerra, George Hewitt and Lewis Young all went out of their way to come to us. Can't be that doom and gloom, can it?

Richmond and Melbourne aren't comparable to Carlton as much as you want them to be

Richmond had 3 consecutive finals appearances and one bad year before they went on their run. Didnt sack their coach despite the calls too

Hell even Melbourne had gone 9th, 4th, 17th, 9th (so one bad year). Also didn't sack their coach despite the calls too

Carlton have ben shit for a long period of time

Melbourne and Richmond had stability, kept their coaches and didn't buckle to the pressure, Carlton haven't

Melbourne and Richmond had been fairly stable off the park, Carlton just sacked their CEO so they have not been

Clarko is hardly going to come out and shit on a club publically that he knocked back. Ditto Lyon, but you sacked your coach thinking you would get one of the two big fish and ended up with Crazy Vossy. Hopefully his learning off Hinkley at how to not show up in finals makes him a better coach that his butcher job at Brisbane

You signed Lewis Young ****ing lol, 24 ordinary games over 5 years what a signing. All of the clubs must have been fighting for his elusive signature.

Hewitt and Cerra are good young players with potential, but that is a dirty word. Remember when Jack Martin was going to be the savior 2 years ago? Mitch McGovern? Adam Saad? the list goes on

 

[chunkylover53]

Richmond and Melbourne aren't comparable to Carlton as much as you want them to be

Richmond had 3 consecutive finals appearances and one bad year before they went on their run. Didnt sack their coach despite the calls too

3 consecutive finals exits** after a 6 year rebuild. Sacking the coach? What's that got to do with it? How are Teague and Hardwick similar? You said it yourself - three consecutive finals appearances with mostly year-on-year improvement. What'd Teague do? He couldn't even take a team with 4xAA quality players within arms reach of the 8.

Hell even Melbourne had gone 9th, 4th, 17th, 9th (so one bad year). Also didn't sack their coach despite the calls too

Why would you sack a coach who made a prelim 2 years prior? All hail stable Melbourne.

Carlton have ben sh*t for a long period of time

Lmao, good argument. Melbourne just won their first flag in 60 years and you're trying to use this 'history predicts present and future' argument. You're better than this.

Melbourne and Richmond had been fairly stable off the park, Carlton just sacked their CEO so they have not been

Post-2016, Dan Richardson came out and said the list was built to only make the 8, then they almost had a board spill. Then their long-time hero Deledio walked out on them Yeah, such stability! Yep, just a little blip of a year in the big grand plan, right?.

The AFL literally had to intervene to save Melbourne from themselves - you are just rewriting history.

We sacked Cain Liddle because he was a shit CEO, something you have been going on about for years as you had personal dealings with him. Should we not have sacked him for the sake of 'stability' - what are you arguing here? We've replaced him with Brian Cook which should be a big step forward.

Clarko is hardly going to come out and sh*t on a club publically that he knocked back. Ditto Lyon, but you sacked your coach thinking you would get one of the two big fish and ended up with Crazy Vossy. Hopefully his learning off Hinkley at how to not show up in finals makes him a better coach that his butcher job at Brisbane

So despite no evidence that they rejected our offer because of our list, you've just decided to make it so via assumption? What kind of bullshit is that? Of course Clarkson was our priority - why wouldn't he be? Lyon was all in publicly (did you not see him on Footy Classified?) until it was asked he go through a process. Whether it be stubborn pride or nerves about his dirty laundry at Freo, we will never know why he pulled out - but I'm fairly sure it wasn't because he didn't rate our list. We've ended up with Voss who wasn't our priority but I'm confident it's a better option than Teague.

You signed Lewis Young ******* lol, 24 ordinary games over 5 years what a signing. All of the clubs must have been fighting for his elusive signature.

Hewitt and Cerra are good young players with potential, but that is a dirty word. Remember when Jack Martin was going to be the savior 2 years ago? Mitch McGovern? Adam Saad? the list goes on

You're just going on tangents of "lUl CaRlToN r ShIt!!' and ignoring the point. You tried to argue that our list must be shit because Clarko and Lyon didn't want to coach us. I pointed out that 4 AFL employees (Cook, Cerra, Hewitt & Young) - 3 of which 17 other clubs would love, I'm sure - went out of their way to come to us that things mustn't be as bad as you think they are; you just responded with "LOL THEY'RE SHIT ANYWAY JACK MARTIN!!1"

It's clear you're not up for addressing what anyone brings, so not sure why you're in this thread.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Trying not to trash talk.

Carlton has some genuine A grade talent. A good spine (jones is an issue) and solid depth. But I reckon the list isn't a great balance. So they could jump, certainly top 8 talent is there. But injuries and/or confidence/form could hurt them.

But learning a new game plan usually takes a year. So I would expect spotty form this year as they learn to plan Voss' game. That usually leads to underperformance, followed by (hopefully) better performance.

So I would expect no break out, but by the end of 2022 signs of a much tougher team to beat. 2023 might be the year they finally step up.

But we'll see. Carlton's powerbrokers have a history of wanting to interfere.

 

[Arr0w]

Trying not to trash talk.

Carlton has some genuine A grade talent. A good spine (jones is an issue) and solid depth. But I reckon the list isn't a great balance. So they could jump, certainly top 8 talent is there. But injuries and/or confidence/form could hurt them.

But learning a new game plan usually takes a year. So I would expect spotty form this year as they learn to plan Voss' game. That usually leads to underperformance, followed by (hopefully) better performance.

So I would expect no break out, but by the end of 2022 signs of a much tougher team to beat. 2023 might be the year they finally step up.

But we'll see. Carlton's powerbrokers have a history of wanting to interfere.

Certainly valid factors. The area that most concerns me is our thin spine, more than the gameplan itself. I feel that with a reasonable number of contested mids, Teague's gameplan didn't suit these types.

Teague also played an outdated 1v1 defensive setup, while most if not all sides were generally running with zone defensive setups. This will be the biggest change and as you stated, it might take a while to bed down

 

[00Stinger]

3 consecutive finals exits** after a 6 year rebuild. Sacking the coach? What's that got to do with it? How are Teague and Hardwick similar? You said it yourself - three consecutive finals appearances with mostly year-on-year improvement. What'd Teague do? He couldn't even take a team with 4xAA quality players within arms reach of the 8.



Why would you sack a coach who made a prelim 2 years prior? All hail stable Melbourne.



Lmao, good argument. Melbourne just won their first flag in 60 years and you're trying to use this 'history predicts present and future' argument. You're better than this.



Post-2016, Dan Richardson came out and said the list was built to only make the 8, then they almost had a board spill. Then their long-time hero Deledio walked out on them Yeah, such stability! Yep, just a little blip of a year in the big grand plan, right?.

The AFL literally had to intervene to save Melbourne from themselves - you are just rewriting history.

We sacked Cain Liddle because he was a sh*t CEO, something you have been going on about for years as you had personal dealings with him. Should we not have sacked him for the sake of 'stability' - what are you arguing here? We've replaced him with Brian Cook which should be a big step forward.



So despite no evidence that they rejected our offer because of our list, you've just decided to make it so via assumption? What kind of bullshit is that? Of course Clarkson was our priority - why wouldn't he be? Lyon was all in publicly (did you not see him on Footy Classified?) until it was asked he go through a process. Whether it be stubborn pride or nerves about his dirty laundry at Freo, we will never know why he pulled out - but I'm fairly sure it wasn't because he didn't rate our list. We've ended up with Voss who wasn't our priority but I'm confident it's a better option than Teague.



You're just going on tangents of "lUl CaRlToN r sh*t!!' and ignoring the point. You tried to argue that our list must be sh*t because Clarko and Lyon didn't want to coach us. I pointed out that 4 AFL employees (Cook, Cerra, Hewitt & Young) - 3 of which 17 other clubs would love, I'm sure - went out of their way to come to us that things mustn't be as bad as you think they are; you just responded with "LOL THEY'RE sh*t ANYWAY JACK MARTIN!!1"

It's clear you're not up for addressing what anyone brings, so not sure why you're in this thread.

So you and a few other Carltons supporters in here have the main argument of Melbourne and Richmond did it so we will despite there being very few similarities between the sides.

And if anyone points out the difference they are wrong lol

This off season is eerily similar to last years off season with Carlton

Voss and the staff need time to build a culture, list and gameplan. Assuming they are going to make a huge leap in one season is just going to doom them as it has the previous coaching administrations

 

[chunkylover53]

So you and a few other Carltons supporters in here have the main argument of Melbourne and Richmond did it so we will despite there being very few similarities between the sides.

No, I use the Richmond/Melbourne reference to counter the inane argument that "Carlton have always been shit therefore will always be shit".

FYI, I do see a few similarities in Richmonds 2016 list vs. Carltons - Coleman medalist (Riewoldt/McKay), 2x AA-quality mids (Cotchin/Martin/Walsh/Cripps), gun full-back (Rance/Weitering).

And if anyone points out the difference they are wrong lol

This off season is eerily similar to last years off season with Carlton

Voss and the staff need time to build a culture, list and gameplan. Assuming they are going to make a huge leap in one season is just going to doom them as it has the previous coaching administrations

I don't think many Carlton fans are expecting a huge leap. I'm expecting to make the 8 - which is an extra 3-4 wins on 2021 which isn't unreasonable considering how poorly we played all year along with our injuries. If you really don't think we have a list capable of making the 8 then I'd like to read some deeper reasons as to why, rather than just resorting to shallow arguments of "lol coz carlton have always been shit, lol crazy vossy".

 

[Foxman98]

Can we stop pretending Carlton have a good list. Walsh is good but if he was at Gold Coast and not Carlton he wouldn't be hyped as much, Weitering is a top 5 player at his position, McKay is good but has Ben Brown

50

Ben Brown

Age

31

Ht

200cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.7

3star

K

7.7

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.2

3star

G

2.2

5star

D

7.9

2star

K

6.3

3star

HB

1.6

1star

M

3.7

4star

T

0.9

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

1.2

4star

at north only target vibes about him. Outside of those 3 the list is very average, Saad was easily replaced by Hind who was cheaper and better, Williams and Martin are soft and lazy. Cerra wasn't a top 3 mid at Freo who are apparently worse off than Carlton yet he is going to come in and save the day. They were poor defensively last year and lost their 2nd best defender, They don't kick enough goals and lost their 2nd highest goal kicker. Carlton fans please let me know where all this blind delusion you all have comes from

 

[00Stinger]

No, I use the Richmond/Melbourne reference to counter the inane argument that "Carlton have always been sh*t therefore will always be sh*t".

FYI, I do see a few similarities in Richmonds 2016 list vs. Carltons - Coleman medalist (Riewoldt/McKay), 2x AA-quality mids (Cotchin/Martin/Walsh/Cripps), gun full-back (Rance/Weitering).



I don't think many Carlton fans are expecting a huge leap. I'm expecting to make the 8 - which is an extra 3-4 wins on 2021 which isn't unreasonable considering how poorly we played all year along with our injuries. If you really don't think we have a list capable of making the 8 then I'd like to read some deeper reasons as to why, rather than just resorting to shallow arguments of "lol coz carlton have always been sh*t, lol crazy vossy".

For starters I never used the Carlton have always ben shit argument.

Next point, you have to agree that there has to be doubt on whether Voss is a good coach especially after his first stint as a coach. Can he install a good culture/game plan/game style? Nobody really knows, to me that is a big question mark

Next point, I see the three teams directly above you improving (Richmond & St Kilda if they can get injury free) and Freo (youthful improvement). West Coast I can see falling away but other than that I can't see an obvious candidate for a top 8 team to just fall away. So moving up 5 spots isn't going to be easy

Cripps as I've stated before looks cooked so I wouldn't be banking on him to drive you forward. Maybe he gets back to his previous form but I don't think he will

You have lost your FB out of the blue, who is going to replace him? I know you will point to Melbourne with Petty but don't forget we already had 2 to premium KPD's to help cover him

The other big query is the list may have a few top end players but looks very average with a lot of average best 22 players and little to no depth. You are going to hope like hell that a few youngsters improve out of sight to change this, that is another big query

I personally would be betting on Carlton not going backwards, maybe even improving but still not making the 8. 2023-24 seems more likely to me.

 

[Triniboy]

Richmond and Melbourne aren't comparable to Carlton as much as you want them to be

Richmond had 3 consecutive finals appearances and one bad year before they went on their run. Didnt sack their coach despite the calls too

Hell even Melbourne had gone 9th, 4th, 17th, 9th (so one bad year). Also didn't sack their coach despite the calls too

Carlton have ben sh*t for a long period of time

Melbourne and Richmond had stability, kept their coaches and didn't buckle to the pressure, Carlton haven't

Melbourne and Richmond had been fairly stable off the park, Carlton just sacked their CEO so they have not been

Clarko is hardly going to come out and sh*t on a club publically that he knocked back. Ditto Lyon, but you sacked your coach thinking you would get one of the two big fish and ended up with Crazy Vossy. Hopefully his learning off Hinkley at how to not show up in finals makes him a better coach that his butcher job at Brisbane

You signed Lewis Young ******* lol, 24 ordinary games over 5 years what a signing. All of the clubs must have been fighting for his elusive signature.

Hewitt and Cerra are good young players with potential, but that is a dirty word. Remember when Jack Martin was going to be the savior 2 years ago? Mitch McGovern? Adam Saad? the list goes on

this type of tripe is laughable from someone who is south of 30 with little life experiences. if you find it difficult to say anything positive best say zip.
enjoy the premiership for the next 3-4 months !

 

[Golumless]

Nah, Carlton aren't allowed to have nice things this century.

 

[Jobe Watson]

In 2021, Carlton had the Coleman Medalist, a Brownlow-contending midfielder and a top 3 key defender... and still couldn't get close to the 8. Maybe the majority of the list just sucks?

I'm sure 2022 will be different, though. With Crazy Vozzy at the helm what could go wrong.

 

[adammania9]

Oh you are one of these posters, throwing up some names/opinions rather analyzing

Then using the old, first time in 20 years thingie. This has obviously triggered your frustration, us finishing above you

Pies and a couple of other contenders are looking like being bottom 4 teams, yet you state:

"names that would sit in their 10-15 area would make up one of the poorest groups in the comp."

So would that mean our players ranked in the 1-9 and 16 onward are better than the Pies and the other bottom 4 contender?

I’ve read this several times and have no idea what you’re trying to say for the first few paragraphs

Does seeing Carlton finish above Collingwood frustrate me? Eh couldn’t care less really, personally I’d wait for my side to win more than 8 games before getting lippy

Regarding that last paragraph, obviously yes I think Carlton’s top 10 should be better than Collingwood’s; one team should be competing at a higher level than it is, the other is at the beginning of a rebuild.

All in all - who the hell mentioned Collingwood anyway? I certainly didn’t, this is the Carlton thread champ.

 

[Arr0w]

I’ve read this several times and have no idea what you’re trying to say for the first few paragraphs

Does seeing Carlton finish above Collingwood frustrate me? Eh couldn’t care less really, personally I’d wait for my side to win more than 8 games before getting lippy

Regarding that last paragraph, obviously yes I think Carlton’s top 10 should be better than Collingwood’s; one team should be competing at a higher level than it is, the other is at the beginning of a rebuild.

All in all - who the hell mentioned Collingwood anyway? I certainly didn’t, this is the Carlton thread champ.

Well if you are going to state our 10-15 ranked are one of the poorest in the league, surely we can compare it to other sides.

But you keep going with your "champ" comments when you get challenged

 

[B4Bear]

I expect to see more losses like they had against North this year. Unless they harden up they are going nowhere fast. Their midfield fell to pieces against a bunch of kids who put them to the sword.

There is a reason they were outside the eight this year, and unless Voss is a miracle worker, I expect them to miss again in 2022.

 

[chunkylover53]

For starters I never used the Carlton have always ben sh*t argument.

Next point, you have to agree that there has to be doubt on whether Voss is a good coach especially after his first stint as a coach. Can he install a good culture/game plan/game style? Nobody really knows, to me that is a big question mark

Voss took BL to the finals, then in his final year won 8 games. Teague won 8 games this year and you claim we should have kept him - yet Voss is forever doomed to be a shit coach? He was only sacked sacked as Brisbane thought they had Roos, whole thing was a disaster and plenty of BL fans admit he was stiff to get the sack when he did. So no, nobody really knows but your bias against him is obvious considering your stance on other coaches (eg Teague) whom had inferior performances as coach.

Next point, I see the three teams directly above you improving (Richmond & St Kilda if they can get injury free) and Freo (youthful improvement). West Coast I can see falling away but other than that I can't see an obvious candidate for a top 8 team to just fall away. So moving up 5 spots isn't going to be easy

Would like to know why people will think two of the older lists in the league are due to improve. Richmond built their dynasty off Dusty who is 10kg lighter after a hectic kidney injury, Riewoldt is old, as is Cotchin etc. St Kilda showed arguably less than us last year (didn't we beat them by 10+ goals?) with an older list, but they'll improve? Are Hannebery and Hill going to come good? We pinched Freo's best young midfielder and beat them twice last year, but agreed they will improve.

You have lost your FB out of the blue, who is going to replace him? I know you will point to Melbourne with Petty but don't forget we already had 2 to premium KPD's to help cover him

Agreed it's a big loss. If Marchbank can get on the park it would certainly help but it does leave a big hole.

Cripps as I've stated before looks cooked so I wouldn't be banking on him to drive you forward. Maybe he gets back to his previous form but I don't think he will

Lol people carry on like Cripps is 31. He's 26 and was the premium contested mid in the league basically from the age of 20. He's had 2 poor years, neither of which were helped by injury. If only supporters wrote off players from their own team so easily.

The other big query is the list may have a few top end players but looks very average with a lot of average best 22 players and little to no depth. You are going to hope like hell that a few youngsters improve out of sight to change this, that is another big query

You assume our older players like Cripps are done whilst assuming once again our youngsters won't improve, you're just a talking 'worst case scenario' for Carlton.

I personally would be betting on Carlton not going backwards, maybe even improving but still not making the 8. 2023-24 seems more likely to me.

Maybe.

 

[Opine]

Richmond and Melbourne aren't comparable to Carlton as much as you want them to be

Richmond had 3 consecutive finals appearances and one bad year before they went on their run. Didnt sack their coach despite the calls too

Hell even Melbourne had gone 9th, 4th, 17th, 9th (so one bad year). Also didn't sack their coach despite the calls too

Carlton have ben sh*t for a long period of time

Melbourne and Richmond had stability, kept their coaches and didn't buckle to the pressure, Carlton haven't

Melbourne and Richmond had been fairly stable off the park, Carlton just sacked their CEO so they have not been

Clarko is hardly going to come out and sh*t on a club publically that he knocked back. Ditto Lyon, but you sacked your coach thinking you would get one of the two big fish and ended up with Crazy Vossy. Hopefully his learning off Hinkley at how to not show up in finals makes him a better coach that his butcher job at Brisbane

You signed Lewis Young ******* lol, 24 ordinary games over 5 years what a signing. All of the clubs must have been fighting for his elusive signature.

Hewitt and Cerra are good young players with potential, but that is a dirty word. Remember when Jack Martin was going to be the savior 2 years ago? Mitch McGovern? Adam Saad? the list goes on

You were objectively somewhat justified in your commentary until you got to the last 2 sentences; your last sentence in particular is classic trolling. As for your disparaging commentary about Voss, don’t get too far ahead of yourself; one premiership in a compromised season doesn’t adequately atone for how appalling your club has been.

 

[00Stinger]

Voss took BL to the finals, then in his final year won 8 games. Teague won 8 games this year and you claim we should have kept him - yet Voss is forever doomed to be a sh*t coach? He was only sacked sacked as Brisbane thought they had Roos, whole thing was a disaster and plenty of BL fans admit he was stiff to get the sack when he did. So no, nobody really knows but your bias against him is obvious considering your stance on other coaches (eg Teague) whom had inferior performances as coach.

The point is how Voss is going to go as coch is a big unknown, he could be great or he could be worse than Teague. That is a very big variable

Would like to know why people will think two of the older lists in the league are due to improve. Richmond built their dynasty off Dusty who is 10kg lighter after a hectic kidney injury, Riewoldt is old, as is Cotchin etc. St Kilda showed arguably less than us last year (didn't we beat them by 10+ goals?) with an older list, but they'll improve? Are Hannebery and Hill going to come good? We pinched Freo's best young midfielder and beat them twice last year, but agreed they will improve.

Both Richmond and St Kilda were killed with injuries last year. You wouldn't expect that to happen again and they have proven with healthy lists they are top 8 sides.

Lol people carry on like Cripps is 31. He's 26 and was the premium contested mid in the league basically from the age of 20. He's had 2 poor years, neither of which were helped by injury. If only supporters wrote off players from their own team so easily.

The point is he hasn't been good for 2 years, that is a big sample size. Can he get over his injuries is the question, he may be able to but once again this is another big what if

You assume our older players like Cripps are done whilst assuming once again our youngsters won't improve, you're just a talking 'worst case scenario' for Carlton.

No I never said your youngsters won't improve, I said for you to really improve as a team a couple of them will really have to step up. Jackson, Pickett & Rivers stepping up was a big reason for our improvement this year, you guys will need the same

 

[Freomaniac]

The team who finished 5th the year before, but had the hardest draw in the comp this year (all 10 double-up games against teams who were in the 8 at the time they played them each time), mixed with the worst injury run (most games missed by best 22), sub-par fitness and some horrific form and confidence lapses. Would hardly be a surprise to see a bounce back up the ladder. Especially if King continues on with his late-season form.

Don’t personally see West Coast (who finished 9th) being a big climber, with Kennedy and Hurn being so old now. But that’s just my opinion.

If you have a different opinion, that’s what you’re here to post.

I am not here to pot shot your club....

But lets look back at saints and Carltons 2020 season...

2020 was a weird season with the corona virus. There was also those 16 minute quarters which lead to lower scoring games and also some close margins. Saints had their fair share of close games, some were wins, some were losses.

Saints finished 6th at the end of the season with a 10-7 record, beat the dogs in an elimination final and ended up 5th on the ladder after finals.

Carlton got 11th with a 7-10 record and 11th spot. only 2 of those wins were by over 10 points. A 52 point win vs the dogs and a 33 point win vs the suns. The other 5 wins were by 9 points or less. Yet some people and media were convinced that Carlton were going to make finals in 2021. I didn't.

Now lets bring up both teams 2021 season.

Saints were competitive in most games. Now saints fans complained about their draw how it was the hardest in the AFL. Well, here is the thing. This cuts both ways. Yeah saints had a hard draw. they had double up games vs the 2020 finalists vs the likes of Geelong, Richmond, Port and Eagles. All 4 made finals in 2020. Yet saints made the top 6 and were certain to get at least the 6th toughest draw stats wise. Equalization and all.

I wont be suprised if saints finish between 5th to 8th again in 2022 with an easier draw, less injuries, more consistency to their 2nd tier and younger players in their best 22 and hoping some close games ended up being wins.

Carlton posted and 8 win 14 loss record. Again, it was inflated partially because of those freo away games. You would assume carlton will improve next season with an easier draw, one year more of experience with the youth and a better coach.