QAFL 2022

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Longy_Zillmere said:
Normally agree with your thinking but this one’s off the rocker. Labrador, Morningside, Palm Beach, Mt G, Sherwood, Surfers, Brodbeach, Noosa all don’t have top tier womens teams.

Womens teams at local clubs all pay rego etc as well. Plus add another revenue stream having more players at clubs, plus also make it easier for heaps of teams to get grants. Not sure how having more club members requires any additional funding from AFLQ?
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Disagree Longy_Zillmere with notion of Women's football. Club budgets need to now cater for seniors, colts, Div 4 and lower grades(old blokes who can't give it away) and Masters and Womens football. The budget doesn't stretch that far. It used to be that a club only had to fund Seniors, Ressies and Colts and the rest made up support staff and volunteers. This will be perceived as being politically incorrect but its reality the other groups don't bring in big sponsorship dollars and churn money over the bar and can in fact be a financial burden all in the name of being inclusive.

In relation to the competition, it is definitely not a State League and that was made obvious by the Qld Government take on recent COVID restrictions. It is classified as "Community football" I actually think the most practical way to run the competition is to split into regions aligned with the Lions and Suns Regions
Brisbane League - Morningside, Mt Gravatt, Sherwood, Aspley, Grange, Noosa and Maroochydore
Gold coast League - Labrador. Southport reserves, Broadbaeach, Surfers, PBC
Redlands could be in either
Leaves room to add a couple of teams to each league and reduces travel and lots of extra expenses.
 
2010premier said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think the points and salary caps are vital tools for equalisation.

Nobody enjoys massive blowouts, Sundays match at the Cats despite a very healthy crowd the atmosphere was flat because of the lack of contest.

Finding the right balance and grading players correctly (even though it benefits my club personally I don’t think VFL players that aren’t homegrown should be a 1 point and some of the grading of Aspley and Redland players raises eyebrows).

Salary cap serves 2 purposes one is competitive balance and the second more important purpose is helping to keep clubs more sustainable and hopefully making life a bit easier for volunteers.

To me it’s crazy that local games with crowds in the hundreds would have several players on $800 per game which would happen again in no time if there was no cap, ultimately driving player wages up and having clubs over a barrel
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2020-21 raised the top end standard of the comp. Some clubs have reacted and evolved their list to play at that standard.

The new clubs, Redlands, Maroochy, Noosa, Aspley have breathed a higher standard into the competition. If clubs want to be competitive, and challenge for a top 4 spot, the task has just got a lot harder.

Clubs are just going to have to think outside the box as per recruitment. Interstate recruits all have relocation, travel, accommodation needs, as well as jobs. Theres a lot a club can offer a player besides cash.

We arent going back. To be competitive clubs have to come UP to standard, not expect caps etc to drag those clubs back. To focus on old standards would be a mistake.

.
 
Required said:
2020-21 raised the top end standard of the comp. Some clubs have reacted and evolved their list to play at that standard.

The new clubs, Redlands, Maroochy, Noosa, Aspley have breathed a higher standard into the competition. If clubs want to be competitive, and challenge for a top 4 spot, the task has just got a lot harder.

Clubs are just going to have to think outside the box as per recruitment. Interstate recruits all have relocation, travel, accommodation needs, as well as jobs. Theres a lot a club can offer a player besides cash.

We arent going back. To be competitive clubs have to come UP to standard, not expect caps etc to drag those clubs back. To focus on old standards would be a mistake.

.
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Disagree

Redland and Aspley as examples have come into the competition largely with teams full of non local talent recruited specifically for NEAFL/VFL - this won't continue. In many cases they also retained the best young talent from QLD that largely came to them from QAFL or QFA clubs, this won't continue either.

Look at Redland on the weekend, their list of bests:

Franks (Sherwood), Huddy (Jindalee), Miller (Vic Point), Johnson (Sherwood), Hammelman (Morningside), Rolls (Kenmore/Morningside)

if Redland weren't NEAFL 2 years ago, Franks, Huddy, Johnson likely at Sherwood and Hammelman and Rolls are playing at Morningside - their local QAFL clubs.

Look at Aspley on the weekend vs Morningside:

10 interstate recruits out of their 22.

2/3 x Aspley juniors

1 x Morningside junior
1 x Sherwood junior

Granted their other local QLD talent is all from surrounding northside clubs, but thats not a list they can ever re-produce under the salary cap and points cap system in place in the future.

Noosa didn't breathe a higher standard, they came in and went winless. Then got a points cap dispensation and recruited hard and well done to them.

IF you want footy in QLD to thrive, you need a strong Senior competition - who cares if its a 'state league' or whatever, this is the essentially the highest level in QLD outside 1 club and 2 AFL reserves teams. If they don't sort out the academy, where all the best talent goes to die - then the QAFL will continue to be a sub-standard competition where you need interstate recruits to compete.

As a fan of footy in QLD, I'd prefer the QAFL to be dominated by the best talent QLD has to offer and for the level to rise naturally with that local talent, but wityh the academy destroying talented 16-19 year olds at a rate of 8 out of 10 giving footy way before they turn 20 - then every club will need to blow cash on interstate recruiting to maintain standards.
 

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thunderdoc said:
Disagree Longy_Zillmere with notion of Women's football. Club budgets need to now cater for seniors, colts, Div 4 and lower grades(old blokes who can't give it away) and Masters and Womens football. The budget doesn't stretch that far. It used to be that a club only had to fund Seniors, Ressies and Colts and the rest made up support staff and volunteers. This will be perceived as being politically incorrect but its reality the other groups don't bring in big sponsorship dollars and churn money over the bar and can in fact be a financial burden all in the name of being inclusive.

In relation to the competition, it is definitely not a State League and that was made obvious by the Qld Government take on recent COVID restrictions. It is classified as "Community football" I actually think the most practical way to run the competition is to split into regions aligned with the Lions and Suns Regions
Brisbane League - Morningside, Mt Gravatt, Sherwood, Aspley, Grange, Noosa and Maroochydore
Gold coast League - Labrador. Southport reserves, Broadbaeach, Surfers, PBC
Redlands could be in either
Leaves room to add a couple of teams to each league and reduces travel and lots of extra expenses.
Click to expand...
Then don’t run teams in those comps. It is basic business- what you do stacks up financially or you don’t do it. A club running Div 4 that loses money has rocks in its head.
 
Miller1971 said:
Disagree

Redland and Aspley as examples have come into the competition largely with teams full of non local talent recruited specifically for NEAFL/VFL - this won't continue. In many cases they also retained the best young talent from QLD that largely came to them from QAFL or QFA clubs, this won't continue either.

Look at Redland on the weekend, their list of bests:

Franks (Sherwood), Huddy (Jindalee), Miller (Vic Point), Johnson (Sherwood), Hammelman (Morningside), Rolls (Kenmore/Morningside)

if Redland weren't NEAFL 2 years ago, Franks, Huddy, Johnson likely at Sherwood and Hammelman and Rolls are playing at Morningside - their local QAFL clubs.

Look at Aspley on the weekend vs Morningside:

10 interstate recruits out of their 22.

2/3 x Aspley juniors

1 x Morningside junior
1 x Sherwood junior

Granted their other local QLD talent is all from surrounding northside clubs, but thats not a list they can ever re-produce under the salary cap and points cap system in place in the future.

Noosa didn't breathe a higher standard, they came in and went winless. Then got a points cap dispensation and recruited hard and well done to them.

IF you want footy in QLD to thrive, you need a strong Senior competition - who cares if its a 'state league' or whatever, this is the essentially the highest level in QLD outside 1 club and 2 AFL reserves teams. If they don't sort out the academy, where all the best talent goes to die - then the QAFL will continue to be a sub-standard competition where you need interstate recruits to compete.

As a fan of footy in QLD, I'd prefer the QAFL to be dominated by the best talent QLD has to offer and for the level to rise naturally with that local talent, but wityh the academy destroying talented 16-19 year olds at a rate of 8 out of 10 giving footy way before they turn 20 - then every club will need to blow cash on interstate recruiting to maintain standards.
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Redlands will retain their standard. Aspley will also. Labrador will/does and so does Broadbeach. Clubs have a natural motivation to put themselves in a position to win flags. If the top 4 are of a higher standard, the bottom 8 will strive to get better.

Noosas inaugural year was a lipmus test for them and they have reacted acordingly. Read Aspleys 'mission statement', they arent going anywhere south of the top 4. Broadbeach, Labrador are not new entries and they can compete with Aspley and Redalnds list. Mate, there is already a new standard. Its not going anywhere but up in the forseeable future as the bottom 8 clubs will react.

You think Morningside will be content being out of the top 4-5 for long? You think with the maturing of their juniors Grange will abandon thoughts of a flag? Or will they continue to surround their junior nucleus with recruits to get that flag? Etc, etc. As ive said, the top end of the comp is getting stronger and clubs will have to react or get left behind. We are seeing it in the results already this season.

We arent going back.
 
Required said:
Redlands will retain their standard. Aspley will also.
Click to expand...

Even assuming that the current points system doesn't change as as a result of the AFLQ "review" about to get underway, I can't see how Redland or Aspley can possibly maintain, let alone improve, the strength of their lists over the next few years as the ex-NEAFL/VFL guys now playing as 1 pointers start moving on for one reason or another.

Firstly, due to the points cap, as those pseudo 1 pointers leave they will either have to be replaced by local juniors or the club will have to trim the fat elsewhere to stay under the cap. For example, if Liam Dawson leaves Aspley or Jack Rolls leaves Redand those clubs aren't getting the same quality to replace them unless they import guys rated as 4/5 points and lose someone else to fit them in.

Secondly, neither Redland or Aspley have a heap of ex-juniors aged 18/19 ready to step up and be quality QAFL players straight away. Redland's Colts and juniors are weak and have been for quite a while, and Aspley's current Colts results reflect the impact of many years of them focusing on their NEAFL/VFL team whilst very talented kids became disillusioned and either left the club or gave the game away.

I'm not suggesting that Redland and Aspley won't be strong or competitive in the medium to longer term, as they are both backed by wealthy leagues clubs and Aspley's juniors in particular will regenerate, but in my view this year is surely the high watermark for both of them as the beneficiaries of the AFLQ's points largesse.
 
Judge said:
Even assuming that the current points system doesn't change as as a result of the AFLQ "review" about to get underway, I can't see how Redland or Aspley can possibly maintain, let alone improve, the strength of their lists over the next few years as the ex-NEAFL/VFL guys now playing as 1 pointers start moving on for one reason or another.

Firstly, due to the points cap, as those pseudo 1 pointers leave they will either have to be replaced by local juniors or the club will have to trim the fat elsewhere to stay under the cap. For example, if Liam Dawson leaves Aspley or Jack Rolls leaves Redand those clubs aren't getting the same quality to replace them unless they import guys rated as 4/5 points and lose someone else to fit them in.

Secondly, neither Redland or Aspley have a heap of ex-juniors aged 18/19 ready to step up and be quality QAFL players straight away. Redland's Colts and juniors are weak and have been for quite a while, and Aspley's current Colts results reflect the impact of many years of them focusing on their NEAFL/VFL team whilst very talented kids became disillusioned and either left the club or gave the game away.

I'm not suggesting that Redland and Aspley won't be strong or competitive in the medium to longer term, as they are both backed by wealthy leagues clubs and Aspley's juniors in particular will regenerate, but in my view this year is surely the high watermark for both of them as the beneficiaries of the AFLQ's points largesse.
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Labrador actually didnt have a strong juniors list either up until about 2017 when basically the entire southport u12s moved to Labrador. Many if not most of those boys were in or about to be in the Suns academy. Now i dont know how many of those boys are in 1sts now, but Labrador has recruited well and is in the top 4 anyway, and have been strong for years.

I dont know how clubs manage to fiddle the system, but like all laws, they are simply a guide for the creative..
 
Required said:
Labrador actually didnt have a strong juniors list either up until about 2017 when basically the entire southport u12s moved to Labrador. Many if not most of those boys were in or about to be in the Suns academy. Now i dont know how many of those boys are in 1sts now, but Labrador has recruited well and is in the top 4 anyway, and have been strong for years.

I dont know how clubs manage to fiddle the system, but like all laws, they are simply a guide for the creative..
Click to expand...

Everyone has been strong at some point, even Grange.

In alphabetical order (excluding clubs that have left QAFL) bold denotes highest ladder finish, * = premiership, italics = lowest place finish of current clubs

Broadbeach 4, 5, 7, 3, 2, 4, 1, 2*
Labrador 3, 1*, 1*, 1, 7, 7, 8, 1
Morningside 1*, 4, 6, 4, 3, 3, 3, 2*, 5
Mt Gravatt 5, 7, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 9
Palm Beach 2, 6, 2, 2*, 1*, 1, 4, 8
Sherwood 6, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6, 3, 7
Surfers 7, 10, 5, 7, 4, 2*, 7, 4
Wilston Grange 8, 3, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 10

Maroochydore 5, 6
Redland 3
Noosa 11

Every single club has missed finals and every single club has made a prelim final.

Broadbeach Ave ladder position 3.5, 1 x flag 1 x minor premiership
Labrador ave ladder position 3.6, 2 x flags and 4 x minor premiership
Morningside ave ladder position 3.5, 2 x flags and 1 x minor premiership
Mt Gravatt ave ladder position 5.75
Palm Beach ave ladder position 3.25, 2 x flags, 2 x minor premiership
Sherwood ave ladder position 4.8
Surfers ave ladder position 5.75, 1 x flag
Wilston Grange ave ladder position 7.7

Maroochydore n/A
Redland n/a
Noosa n/a

On those numbers, Labrador and Palmy are the standout clubs since QAFL re-introduced. Surfers the fantastic 2019 win pulling Palmy back to the field and despite Surfers having a more successful era than say Sherwood or Mt Gravatt (by virtue of a cup on the shelf!), on average they finish lower or the same on the ladder.

All interesting stuff and shows that Grange were due to move up the ladder and people forget they did finish 3rd in 2015, though it is a big outlier.
 
Miller1971 said:
Everyone has been strong at some point, even Grange.

In alphabetical order (excluding clubs that have left QAFL) bold denotes highest ladder finish, * = premiership, italics = lowest place finish of current clubs

Broadbeach 4, 5, 7, 3, 2, 4, 1, 2*
Labrador 3, 1*, 1*, 1, 7, 7, 8, 1
Morningside 1*, 4, 6, 4, 3, 3, 3, 2*, 5
Mt Gravatt 5, 7, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 9
Palm Beach 2, 6, 2, 2*, 1*, 1, 4, 8
Sherwood 6, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6, 3, 7
Surfers 7, 10, 5, 7, 4, 2*, 7, 4
Wilston Grange 8, 3, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 10

Maroochydore 5, 6
Redland 3
Noosa 11

Every single club has missed finals and every single club has made a prelim final.

Broadbeach Ave ladder position 3.5, 1 x flag 1 x minor premiership
Labrador ave ladder position 3.6, 2 x flags and 4 x minor premiership
Morningside ave ladder position 3.5, 2 x flags and 1 x minor premiership
Mt Gravatt ave ladder position 5.75
Palm Beach ave ladder position 3.25, 2 x flags, 2 x minor premiership
Sherwood ave ladder position 4.8
Surfers ave ladder position 5.75, 1 x flag
Wilston Grange ave ladder position 7.7

Maroochydore n/A
Redland n/a
Noosa n/a

On those numbers, Labrador and Palmy are the standout clubs since QAFL re-introduced. Surfers the fantastic 2019 win pulling Palmy back to the field and despite Surfers having a more successful era than say Sherwood or Mt Gravatt (by virtue of a cup on the shelf!), on average they finish lower or the same on the ladder.

All interesting stuff and shows that Grange were due to move up the ladder and people forget they did finish 3rd in 2015, though it is a big outlier.
Click to expand...
Only one undefeated premiership. Morningside 2014 ! No-one got within 5 goals of them
 
Longy_Zillmere said:
Normally agree with your thinking but this one’s off the rocker. Labrador, Morningside, Palm Beach, Mt G, Sherwood, Surfers, Brodbeach, Noosa all don’t have top tier womens teams.

Womens teams at local clubs all pay rego etc as well. Plus add another revenue stream having more players at clubs, plus also make it easier for heaps of teams to get grants. Not sure how having more club members requires any additional funding from AFLQ?
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I understand what you are saying Longy but we need the premier competition in the state to be competitive with other major footballing states, otherwise we will keep losing the best kids interstate and possibly to the game.

I think AFL whilst focusing on female participation didn’t think about impact on code overall in regards clubs bottom lines, volunteers, umpires, ground usage etc.

I have no problems with woman’s footy as I was an advocate when it first started. Whilst clubs will say they are heaps better with womens teams involved I am not disagreeing with that.

But there is no way Clubs are rolling in all this extra cash because of womens footy.

AFL have a lovely way of creating all these add ons to the game Auskick, U6’s, Girls only competitions etc and leave it to clubs to carry out the grunt work and cost impacts.

I was merely trying to point out that they need to fund these programs at club level.
 
Still Me said:
I understand what you are saying Longy but we need the premier competition in the state to be competitive with other major footballing states, otherwise we will keep losing the best kids interstate and possibly to the game.

I think AFL whilst focusing on female participation didn’t think about impact on code overall in regards clubs bottom lines, volunteers, umpires, ground usage etc.

I have no problems with woman’s footy as I was an advocate when it first started. Whilst clubs will say they are heaps better with womens teams involved I am not disagreeing with that.

But there is no way Clubs are rolling in all this extra cash because of womens footy.

AFL have a lovely way of creating all these add ons to the game Auskick, U6’s, Girls only competitions etc and leave it to clubs to carry out the grunt work and cost impacts.

I was merely trying to point out that they need to fund these programs at club level.
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I don't get why some people on here are calling it the state league it isn't, its community football gc, lions and southport are in the state league, sanfl and wafl are state leagues. this is not
 
thunderdoc said:
Disagree Longy_Zillmere with notion of Women's football. Club budgets need to now cater for seniors, colts, Div 4 and lower grades(old blokes who can't give it away) and Masters and Womens football. The budget doesn't stretch that far. It used to be that a club only had to fund Seniors, Ressies and Colts and the rest made up support staff and volunteers. This will be perceived as being politically incorrect but its reality the other groups don't bring in big sponsorship dollars and churn money over the bar and can in fact be a financial burden all in the name of being inclusive.

In relation to the competition, it is definitely not a State League and that was made obvious by the Qld Government take on recent COVID restrictions. It is classified as "Community football" I actually think the most practical way to run the competition is to split into regions aligned with the Lions and Suns Regions
Brisbane League - Morningside, Mt Gravatt, Sherwood, Aspley, Grange, Noosa and Maroochydore
Gold coast League - Labrador. Southport reserves, Broadbaeach, Surfers, PBC
Redlands could be in either
Leaves room to add a couple of teams to each league and reduces travel and lots of extra expenses.
Click to expand...
As someone who was part of a football club pre women being involved and then post women teams being included I can tell you categorically that the football club (Maroochydore) is significantly enhanced by having a squad of 55+ women around. Sponsorship is gained purely on the back of the women's program and the functions and Thurs nights grew 10 fold, not because of the numbers of women but because it suddenly became not just a place for blokes that the men's partners often felt. Without a women's space these days in your club it is very very difficult to go forward if for no other reason it is much more difficult to get grants.
I disagree Thunder with where $$ are spent. I would say that there are many players at QAFL level who do not put as much over the bar as yesteryear.
 
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freddyfudrucker said:
Then don’t run teams in those comps. It is basic business- what you do stacks up financially or you don’t do it. A club running Div 4 that loses money has rocks in its head.
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Which is why I think they do run teams in these comps - bc it does stack up. Think Thunder is miles off the mark here.
 
smy1305 said:
As someone who was part of a football club pre women being involved and then part post women teams being included I can tell you categorically that the football club (Maroochydore) is significantly enhanced by having a squad of 55+ women around. Sponsorship is gained purely on the back of the women's program and the functions and Thurs nights grew 10 fold, not because of the numbers of women but because it suddenly became not just a place for blokes that the men's partners often felt. Without a women's space these days in your club it is very very difficult to go forward if for no other reason it is much more difficult to get grants.
I disagree Thunder with where $$ are spent. I would say that there are many players at QAFL level who do not put as much over the bar as yesteryear.
Click to expand...

As pioneers in the womens space 20 years ago, it was a costly exercise back then from all reports, and again even 10 years ago there was little or not AFLQ support for it.

However, times have changed and re-introducing womens footy has been huge for us and certainly isn't a costly exercise. Sure, it requires more work, but it also provides more volunteers to do that work.

We have over 200 female participants at the club, and they all well and truly pay their way
 
Thommo 42 said:
As pioneers in the womens space 20 years ago, it was a costly exercise back then from all reports, and again even 10 years ago there was little or not AFLQ support for it.

However, times have changed and re-introducing womens footy has been huge for us and certainly isn't a costly exercise. Sure, it requires more work, but it also provides more volunteers to do that work.

We have over 200 female participants at the club, and they all well and truly pay their way
Click to expand...
And the AFL clubs understand its value too - clamouring over each other to get a side in the AFLW now. Whether ppl like it or not there are extra eyes that weren't there before, dads who now attend football with daughters when previously (reluctantly) consigned to going to netball and mums who now have an even greater reason to attend as well. Like you said the volunteer base is expanded and there is generally more hands at womens footy bc you don't have as many parents sitting back like pseudo talent scouts eye balling their own son's performance like a hawk but happy to run water or throw the ball over the head.
 
Thommo 42 said:
they won a couple by less than 5 goals, but yes thats the last time a club dropped back from a higher level and basically retained their entire list!
Click to expand...
they acutally had an entire team of players go to Aspley and Redlands. Tell me what games they won by less than 5 goals
 
save your time tommo - I have plenty!

Round 17 - 2014

Morningside 12.11 -83 def Surfers 8.13 - 61

Round 3 - 2014

Morningside 13.8 - 86 def Palm Beach 9.12 - 66
 
Comp wasn’t as strong then either. Not to compare premiership sides but Labrador, Palmys and even Broadys winning teams would match that morningside team as the overall level and standard has gotten much better
 
Miller1971 said:
save your time tommo - I have plenty!

Round 17 - 2014

Morningside 12.11 -83 def Surfers 8.13 - 61

Round 3 - 2014

Morningside 13.8 - 86 def Palm Beach 9.12 - 66
Click to expand...
Yes they were still playing NEAFL footy and everyone else was playing QAFL footy.

Just on whether clubs would run a team that loses money. Of course on balance no however most clubs would take some pain if there’s a long term gain.

No doubt for us early days of womens football financially took a while to generate its own income like anything new but girls/ womens footy is now a massive part of pretty well every footy club
 
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