List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[Mutineer]

So Hurn is likely to get moved in from West Coast.

Thoughts on bringing him in as a defensive assistant coach and as SANFL captain?

Our young defenders would really benefit from a mentor like him.

What's Matty Wright done wrong?

 

[MRB37]

Good thoughts ......do you think we had too many attacking minded players in the 2017 GF ?

Seemed like RICH's defensive minded smalls were the diff

I agree, we need to overlay some class into the team now .....but not at the expense of abdicating the defensive aspect

What did Nicks say ....."if you don't want to defend, there's the door"

I reckon with Richmond it was not necessarily too many offensive minded players, but the mix of our guys didn't work either. Like to man up Rance we had to pick between using Otten, who was strong defensively, but had trouble keeping up with Rance speed wise, or Jenkins, who had the speed to keep up, but didn't have defensive hardness and Cameron and Betts too small. Gov was a guy who could give us both if we had him there, could also work over Houli too. Then the other end we lose Smith who is our big offensive weapon and we're left with pure defense down back and lose that big kick that often kicked off our turnover offense.

Then the midfield was very much a case of "get ball above anything else" I think and when Sloane was tagged out we didn't have the ability to clamp down defensively in response. I always think of that scene in the Amazon doc where they're going through the footage on their midfield defence and Brad Crouch keeps going back to the point they lost the clearance as the issue where Nicks is trying to get them to understand where they need to be from a team defensive POV when that happens.

At the very least I don't think we'd see a player like Atkins in the side with Nicks, which is why I think Sholl won't be with us next year.

 

[Mutineer]

Tigers smalls were “defensive” eh?.. massive revision of the history there by you.. nice!

Strange.. i recall everyone in awe of how attacking they were.. the “mosquito fleet” that just tore opp teams apart by attacking in waves.. a fleet of fast, attacking goal kicking smalls.

Hilarious how anyone that class that as defensive minded play first and foremost!..

Rowe, mchenry and murphy wouldnt have even got a look in in that tigers team of 2017..

Blighty is right. Being defensive first and foremost doesnt win games.. the proof is in the adelaide crows pudding. Just take one look at our win/loss ratio for the past 3 seasons!

I think you might be rewriting history a bit too , their game was built around oppressive defensive pressure which caused the turnover...that's when they got on their bikes...

 

[WaynesWorld19]

At the very least I don't think we'd see a player like Atkins in the side with Nicks, which is why I think Sholl won't be with us next year.

 

[MRB37]

What's Matty Wright done wrong?

I was gonna say "he'll be 33 next year, might be time to hang it up" but Hurn will be 35, so kinda blows that argument out the water!

No issue if we brought him in as a defensive development coach though, never replaced Brent Reilly in that role when he left for South Adelaide.

 

[Mutineer]

I was gonna say "he'll be 33 next year, might be time to hang it up" but Hurn will be 35, so kinda blows that argument out the water!

No issue if we brought him in as a defensive development coach though, never replaced Brent Reilly in that role when he left for South Adelaide.

Moved back to half back on the weekend and was probably the Crows most influential player on the day 31 disposals 8 r50's, averaged 2 goals a game when played forward....hardly the signs of a player that needs to hang up his boots at SANFL level?

 

[119others]

Have you been watching the SANFL games?..

You ask what else he provides other than speed?..

Well mercurial goal kicking is definitely in his kit bag.. he’s kicked some awesome goals this year including a freakish one from the boundary.. and he just missed one against the tigers where he took 4 bounces down the wing before doing a dribble kick that was going through but a tigers player dived and got a finger tip to it..



I cant see many, if any faults, with his decision making.

His score involvements?… i can think of dozens of occassions where he’s very unselfishly dished off to team mates when he couldve actually kicked the goals himself and I am certain his score involvement stats would be high.

And * off with this “importantly defensive minded” bullshit.. I am so sick of hearing that this is important.. this crap is why we have ended up with spuds like Murphy and mchenry clogging up the small forward position.. so *n what if they are defendive minded!.. pointless if at the same time you arent kicking *in goals too!.. they are meant to be forwards not defenders!

Seriously over hearing people writing the youth off like Newchurch without even watching our SANFL games based on the BS posters like Mego Red, who has a man crush on spuds like murphy and mchenry as small forwards, spin about them.

We are a rebuilding side FFS!!!… we have a kid with xfactor, skills, blistering speed and great goal sense in the SANFL and we havent given him a run because we instead have preferred two spuds that provide not a lot more than defensive effort. Its a *ing deadset joke.

Just like Worrell shoildve been bought in months ago.. so shouldve Newchurch.. but nooooo, not with the defensive nana’s running our club!.. cant have anything exciting.. gotta stick to the boring game plan and defensive structures!.

Thanks for the response even if slightly emotional….you make some insightful points which I was hoping for and I watch absolutely zilch SANFL- hence me asking open, neutral questions re what he brings to the table.

 

[Soggy2112]

Blighty is right. Being defensive first and foremost doesnt win games.. the proof is in the adelaide crows pudding. Just take one look at our win/loss ratio for the past 3 seasons!

The majority of successful rebuilds did so by developing a strong defensive game first, and improving their attacking game later on, Richmond are a prime example of this, go look at their scores for and against as they developed. Nicks’ choosing to emphasise defence first is a sound theory based on evidence from many successful teams. I don’t disagree that he’s played Murphy and McHenry too much, but that is one individual mistake, not a sign that his whole approach is wrong.

We are the youngest and least experienced list. It does not matter what game plan or attack/defence balance we implement, we will lose more than we win, that’s the reality of a rebuild. However, building a defensive base to then build the rest of our game on (adding high skilled players in Dawson and Rankine helps this significantly) is a good idea.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Thanks for the response even if slightly emotional….you make some insightful points which I was hoping for and I watch absolutely zilch SANFL- hence me asking open, neutral questions re what he brings to the table.

Dont read it the wrong way.. My frustrations and swearing in those comments wasnt aimed at you at all..

it was aimed at the club!…

 

[119others]

Frampton TRADE to COLLINGWOOD
Himmelberg TRADE to Freo
Crouch TRADE
Seedsman RETIRE
Brown? RETIRE/TRADE
Rowe DELIST - possible rookie
Ben Davis DELIST

Hinge 2 year deal
Turner 1 year deal
Borlase 1 year deal
Newchurch 1 year deal
McAsey, Sholl KEEP

Sounds about right except Sholl likely to also depart based on rumours whilst not being picked In the Snrs. And Borlase perhaps sub size / speed to make it at the level according to many.

Thoughts on Frampton and Himmelberg worth - 3rd rounders? I personally think we will keep one of them and actually prefer Frampton but it’s close to a nil all draw

 

[Mutineer]

So Hurn is likely to get moved in from West Coast.

Thoughts on bringing him in as a defensive assistant coach and as SANFL captain?

Our young defenders would really benefit from a mentor like him.

Not according to the WCE Chairman recently?

Thought one of the commwentators at our game on the weekend said he was likely to get another year?

West Coast veteran Shannon Hurn expected to play on in 2023

"His focus and his leadership in that group is essential."

www.zerohanger.com

West Coast veteran Shannon Hurn is expected to play on in 2023, which will be his eighteenth season in the game, according to Eagles chairman Russell Gibbs.

Hurn made his debut in 2006 for the Eagles and has since played 316 games, becoming West Coast's game record holder.


The premiership captain has played 15 matches thus far in 2022, in what has been an otherwise disappointing season for the club, averaging 21.7 disposals, 7.6 marks and 384.6 metres gained.

Gibbs appeared on ABC Sport on Saturday, and when asked if Hurn would remain in Eagles colours next season, answered emphatically.


"Yes," Gibbs said.

"Yes, as a player.

"Not only is he an exceptional player, the way he prepares himself is elite. You can see that just looking at the guy.

"His focus and his leadership in that group is essential.

"It's essential as you're bringing these young guys in like Jai Culley and Brady Hough ... to have a guy like Shannon Hurn. "

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Tigers smalls were “defensive” eh?.. massive revision of the history there by you.. nice!

Strange.. i recall everyone in awe of how attacking they were.. the “mosquito fleet” that just tore opp teams apart by attacking in waves.. a fleet of fast, attacking goal kicking smalls.

Hilarious how anyone that class that as defensive minded play first and foremost!..

Rowe, mchenry and murphy wouldnt have even got a look in in that tigers team of 2017..

Blighty is right. Being defensive first and foremost doesnt win games.. the proof is in the adelaide crows pudding. Just take one look at our win/loss ratio for the past 3 seasons!

They were also the best defensive forwards in the comp

One of the commentators on Friday night footy last week said that nearly all premiership teams have that trait and mentioned Richmond

Think they were talking about Elliot 3 HTB tackle goals at the time

 

[Betts are off]

Not according to the WCE Chairman recently?

Thought one of the commwentators at our game on the weekend said he was likely to get another year?

West Coast veteran Shannon Hurn expected to play on in 2023

"His focus and his leadership in that group is essential."

www.zerohanger.com

I'd like to see Bunga keep going around for WCE. Plus I doubt he plays SANFL when he retires. I suspect he'll go back home and play for his childhood club Angaston.

People around the Valley last year seemed to all think that was essentially a foregone conclusion.

 

[Soggy2112]

Not according to the WCE Chairman recently?

Thought one of the commwentators at our game on the weekend said he was likely to get another year?

West Coast veteran Shannon Hurn expected to play on in 2023

"His focus and his leadership in that group is essential."

www.zerohanger.com

The chairman’s comments do seem pretty emphatic, but they need to move some players on. Not including Kennedy, they had 8 30+ year olds playing on Sunday. That’s not a good sign in a two win team.

 

[Mego Red]

Sounds about right except Sholl likely to also depart based on rumours whilst not being picked In the Snrs. And Borlase perhaps sub size / speed to make it at the level according to many.

Thoughts on Frampton and Himmelberg worth - 3rd rounders? I personally think we will keep one of them and actually prefer Frampton but it’s close to a nil all draw

I have similar views to you - I lean towards keeping Sholl, because he's signed, inexpensive, excellent in the SANFL and we're not getting much if he goes.

I think we have enough players leaving that it makes sense to keep someone like him, but the club may have already decided otherwise.

I'd keep one of Berg and Frampton, but maybe both go and someone like Cox comes in?

I don't think Borlase makes it, but there's nothing lost keeping him until his Cat B qualification finishes up.

 

[Mego Red]

They were also the best defensive forwards in the comp

One of the commentators on Friday night footy last week said that nearly all premiership teams have that trait and mentioned Richmond

Think they were talking about Elliot 3 HTB tackle goals at the time

In 2017:

"Richmond was No.2 in the competition for forward-half turnovers (28.9 per game), behind fellow grand finalist Adelaide (29.3)."

 

[GreyCrow]

What's Matty Wright done wrong?

Why don't you ever want the club to improve?

 

[Bob Neil]

So my idea is offer Ned McHenry

25

Ned Mchenry

Age

23

Ht

179cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

9.7

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.0

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.0

1star

to Essendon. There’s a few decent reasons why I think they (and he) would at least consider it.

• We hope to land Rankine in which case Ned is surplus to our requirements
• Essendon are screaming out for a decent small forward since Tippa retired and supposedly were/are all in on Rankine as well so they have a clear need. They made one (!!) F50 tackle on the weekend.
• McHenry is not a fit for us as we need more polish (hence Rankine) but if their primary need (esp playing at Marvel a lot) is manic pressure then he could offer it.
• He’d be cheap, he’s Victorian, a former first round pick with 50 games under his belt so could be seen as a shrewd acquisition.

Let’s do a former Crow and favourite son in Ben Rutten

Ben Rutten

Age

40

Ht

190cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.4

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.0

3star

a solid and trade them Ned McHenry

25

Ned Mchenry

Age

23

Ht

179cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.7

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

5.7

4star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.3

4star

G

0.0

1star

D

9.7

2star

K

4.0

1star

HB

5.7

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

10.0

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

6.4

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.0

1star

.

 

[crows dude]

So everyone is signed bar
Frampton
Himmelberg
Rowe
Turner
Borlase
Newchurch
Davis

Strachan and Butts as Rookies are signed for next year

Can Strachan and Butts stay as Rookies or do they have to go on the senior last next year.

 

[Great8]

So my idea is offer Ned McHenry to Essendon. There’s a few decent reasons why I think they (and he) would at least consider it.

• We hope to land Rankine in which case Ned is surplus to our requirements
• Essendon are screaming out for a decent small forward since Tippa retired and supposedly were/are all in on Rankine as well so they have a clear need. They made one (!!) F50 tackle on the weekend.
• McHenry is not a fit for us as we need more polish (hence Rankine) but if their primary need (esp playing at Marvel a lot) is manic pressure then he could offer it.
• He’d be cheap, he’s Victorian, a former first round pick with 50 games under his belt so could be seen as a shrewd acquisition.

Let’s do a former Crow and favourite son in Ben Rutten a solid and trade them Ned McHenry.

We absolutely need a small forward but Rutten probably won’t play one anyway. We took Menzie in the MSD and he came on as sub against North and had 9 touches in a quarter only to be banished to the VFL the next week. Tex Wanganeen has just extended his contract and we will draft the Davey twins this year so I think we have enough depth. We desperately need a strong mid but no we won’t take Crouch off your hands

 

[Golumless]

Blighty is right. Being defensive first and foremost doesnt win games.. the proof is in the adelaide crows pudding. Just take one look at our win/loss ratio for the past 3 seasons!

Not the best example seeing considering Adelaides list, you could make a genuine case that the club has overperformed in the last two years.

7 wins last year with two against top 4 sides (i.e. we were a five win team on average).
Probably 8 this year despite being on our own island, experience/age wise (and noting most player development occurs in the preseason).

 

[Mutineer]

Why don't you ever want the club to improve?

SANFL team is going fine, the improvement in that regard is fine and most of the young players have performed admirably when called up to the League team, perhaps you haven't noticed. Matty Wright has been great with his on field leadership by the way as I'm sure the regular SANFL watchers will attest.

 

[George Kramer]

This has most probably been asked and answered a few times, but out of the current uncontracted players, whats the maximum we can keep and how many draft picks would that leave?

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

This has most probably been asked and answered a few times, but out of the current uncontracted players, whats the maximum we can keep and how many draft picks would that leave?

This is where Vader has a chance to shine as the answer is a little more complicated due to potential list size reversion to pre-COVID levels.

 

[George Kramer]

This is where Vader has a chance to shine as the answer is a little more complicated due to potential list size reversion to pre-COVID levels.

Unfortunately for him he has me on ignore