List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[jwikked]

A ball hasn't been kicked and I have almost lost interest.
Thinking of going to Collingwood v Geelong tonight but not our game Sunday.

The injuries have just put a blade through my hopes.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

If you have lost interest, there’s no need to remind us every few days. This post is all the notice anyone needs

 

[hangdog]

A ball hasn't been kicked and I have almost lost interest.
Thinking of going to Collingwood v Geelong tonight but not our game Sunday.

The injuries have just put a blade through my hopes.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Get excited by seeing Caminiti, Pou, NWM, Stocker, Byrnes, Owens, Windy, Bytel instead of focusing on who's out.

 

[ScrappyDo]

The way the injury front is looking you might get your wish

Yeah I'm thinking the same, but in truth all the players who I actually want to see getting game time are all fit ATM. If they put the queue in the rack at the bye then maybe Van Es can get a run, or maybe even Keeler. So long as Windy, Chito, Nas and Pou get every game possible then I'm happy with anything.

 

[Joffaboy]

Yeah I'm thinking the same, but in truth all the players who I actually want to see getting game time are all fit ATM. If they put the queue in the rack at the bye then maybe Van Es can get a run, or maybe even Keeler. So long as Windy, Chito, Nas and Pou get every game possible then I'm happy with anything.

I am pretty happy with what I see in Van Es at training. If we snagged a TDK or Ben Mackay I reckon we will have a very sturdy backline in years to come. Van Es is so solid at his age, I reckon it will be an inspired draft selection.

 

[stavro#4]

Everyone needs to relax abit.

Getting way to wrist slitty and we haven’t even played our first game.

Injuries are shit. But it’s about time we found a few from nowhere - like other clubs seem to do with regularity.

Then we can start to piece together what the off-season might look like.

 

[gringo2011]

Everyone needs to relax abit.

Getting way to wrist slitty and we haven’t even played our first game.

Injuries are s**t. But it’s about time we found a few from nowhere - like other clubs seem to do with regularity.

Then we can start to piece together what the off-season might look like.

I thought you were leading the low expectations brigade?

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I think now the season has started the reality of the amount of talent we have sitting in the stands is biting. I agree with others though I will be excited to see Caminiti, Phillipou, Owens get their chances. Even Cordy and Stocker if he plays hold some intrigue in what they might produce. Hopefully NWM can become a real attacking weapon out of defence, plus watching the evolution of our new game plan and how it stands up.

Re a future list management possibility what did we all think of De Koning's game last night? One thing I didnt know about him was he is a left footer and has a huge peg on him. He took one really strong mark in defence, but otherwise he looked a bit heavy and is not that mobile. People have suggested turning him into a key defender, I really cant see that he has the tools to do that.

 

[stavro#4]

I thought you were leading the low expectations brigade?

I do have low expectations.

But I’m wildly confident about where this season will lead too - which is why I wouldn’t bat an eye lid about who we traded - as long as it isn’t King/Steele/Sincs/Marshall

 

[gringo2011]

I think now the season has started the reality of the amount of talent we have sitting in the stands is biting. I agree with others though I will be excited to see Caminiti, Phillipou, Owens get their chances. Even Cordy and Stocker if he plays hold some intrigue in what they might produce. Hopefully NWM can become a real attacking weapon out of defence, plus watching the evolution of our new game plan and how it stands up.

Re a future list management possibility what did we all think of De Koning's game last night? One thing I didnt know about him was he is a left footer and has a huge peg on him. He took one really strong mark in defence, but otherwise he looked a bit heavy and is not that mobile. People have suggested turning him into a key defender, I really cant see that he has the tools to do that.

That mark from behind looked like his brother. I thought he looked okay myself. Probably not far off Roma already to be honest and still young enough to become very good. Not sure I want to spend what he'd cost though. We need to start to find our own instead of trying to trade in what we're missing. It's inefficient unless you can find a few diamonds in the rough. We haven't got enough young talent to sit out of more drafts.

 

[gringo2011]

I do have low expectations.

But I’m wildly confident about where this season will lead too - which is why I wouldn’t bat an eye lid about who we traded - as long as it isn’t King/Steele/Sincs/Marshall

I just don't get the confidence. We either have a list that's close so only need to pick a few specific needs up or we need to rebuild and that takes time and probably does require trade away a few to have a real crack in 3 or 4 seasons time.

It's different if we lose players who want out but can't see how trading out players who would get us anything back helps the list. If Clark for example steps up he'll be hard to trade, if he doesn't he'd be lucky to get us a second round pick back.

If Gresham has another injury prone season he's probably not worth more than $500k and then gets us shit compo. If he has a star season we'd be crazy to let hm go.

Even if Nas wants out I doubt that we get the king's ransom some are hoping for. Post have nothing worth trading and he'll want to go there. Best we get is a future first or a player and change.

 

[hayes]

That mark from behind looked like his brother. I thought he looked okay myself. Probably not far off Roma already to be honest and still young enough to become very good. Not sure I want to spend what he'd cost though. We need to start to find our own instead of trying to trade in what we're missing. It's inefficient unless you can find a few diamonds in the rough. We haven't got enough young talent to sit out of more drafts.

All off-season it was draft draft draft, we’ve ignored the draft we’re going to the draft. Not even round 1 and we’re apparently chasing players that will cost us draft picks. I get the appeal (not for the price of course) and we’re not going to get him but I’m with you, we need to start finding our own.

 

[George]

If you have lost interest, there’s no need to remind us every few days. This post is all the notice anyone needs

 

[stavro#4]

I just don't get the confidence. We either have a list that's close so only need to pick a few specific needs up or we need to rebuild and that takes time and probably does require trade away a few to have a real crack in 3 or 4 seasons time.

It's different if we lose players who want out but can't see how trading out players who would get us anything back helps the list. If Clark for example steps up he'll be hard to trade, if he doesn't he'd be lucky to get us a second round pick back.

If Gresham has another injury prone season he's probably not worth more than $500k and then gets us s**t compo. If he has a star season we'd be crazy to let hm go.

Even if Nas wants out I doubt that we get the king's ransom some are hoping for. Post have nothing worth trading and he'll want to go there. Best we get is a future first or a player and change.

I said from the day we got the first hard core link to Ross.

That we will ultimately walk away at the end of this season and know what we have on this list.

Is it good?

Is it bad?

Do we need more to contend?

Do we need to do a mini rebuild?

I stand by that.

If anyone had expectations Ross was going to elevate us immediately - then I question if they have actually listened to the man himself

 

[SaintsofSteel]

I just don't get the confidence. We either have a list that's close so only need to pick a few specific needs up or we need to rebuild and that takes time and probably does require trade away a few to have a real crack in 3 or 4 seasons time.

It's different if we lose players who want out but can't see how trading out players who would get us anything back helps the list. If Clark for example steps up he'll be hard to trade, if he doesn't he'd be lucky to get us a second round pick back.

If Gresham has another injury prone season he's probably not worth more than $500k and then gets us s**t compo. If he has a star season we'd be crazy to let hm go.

Even if Nas wants out I doubt that we get the king's ransom some are hoping for. Post have nothing worth trading and he'll want to go there. Best we get is a future first or a player and change.

I would be less confident if we traded out our 1st pick/s again this year or next! But if we can nail the next couple of drafts, and pick up the odd cheap FA or trade for list needs we will be off and running.

Just think by that time we could have Windhager, Owens, Phillipou & Hotton playing full time mids, plus whoever else we add. Heath killing it in the ruck, Van Es and Adams holding down key defensive positions and Keeler, Hayes & Caminiti providing the 2nd and 3rd tall roles we desparately need.

If we lose NWM we will pick up a decent trade eg Bergman. So the future is a lot brighter than it may seem atm.

 

[George]

I said from the day we got the first hard core link to Ross.

That we will ultimately walk away at the end of this season and know what we have on this list.

Is it good?

Is it bad?

Do we need more to contend?

Do we need to do a mini rebuild?

I stand by that.

If anyone had expectations Ross was going to elevate us immediately - then I question if they have actually listened to the man himself

I just don't understand what is left to find out. We blooded heaps of young players under Ratten. I don't think we need to spend an entire year figuring out if a handful of players will make it or not. We finished 10th and 10th the last two years, to me we don't have a premiership list and that hasn't been developed properly so we will need to undertake a rebuild to fix that, primarily the issues we now face of having brought in older established players for the sake of going to the draft. Why does a coach like Ross Lyon need 12 months to figure that out? Our deficiencies seem pretty obvious.

However, with the list we currently have, we should be playing finals this year. If we missed by a game last year, have an easier schedule this year coupled with an apparently vastly improved coaching staff and standards, then finding 1 or 2 wins should not be a problem.

To me (and probably others), spending a year to "find out" about players seems like an excuse. If Ross truly believes in a possibility mindset then why doesn't he apply that thinking to this year. He has deliberately watered down expectation with the "year of exploration" stuff but we shouldn't just accept that, we have a list capable of playing finals and so that should be the aim. Fremantle had 14 wins and finished 7th the first year under Ross in a year he said that he needed to find out about the list as well. No reason why that can't be us.

I feel like the narrative coming from him is that we are going to slide a bit because we're going to try new things and play kids. We've played kids last year and the year before that. We can do both.

It won't take much either - a bit of mental fortitude instilled into the players should be enough to get 1 or 2 more wins. If they actually have a crack every quarter of every game that's all it will take, too often we have gone to sleep or not turned up and it has cost us come the end of the year. It won't take much to find ourselves playing finals this year. I don't understand why people are okay with us not making the eight - it's gettable and we should be expecting it as supporters.

 

[gringo2011]

I said from the day we got the first hard core link to Ross.

That we will ultimately walk away at the end of this season and know what we have on this list.

Is it good?

Is it bad?

Do we need more to contend?

Do we need to do a mini rebuild?

I stand by that.

If anyone had expectations Ross was going to elevate us immediately - then I question if they have actually listened to the man himself

You are saying that you expect very little from 2023 but how are you so confident the year after? That sounds like hope more than certainty. I want to believe but need a reason to trust them after years of them taking missteps. Selling off players and hoping to trade in players from other clubs that aren't absolute top line players doesn't sound like a solid direction to me. Just what we've been doing since he left last time.

I think Lyon will straighten a lot of stuff up just not sold on the idea that things will just work out without a solid plan.

 

[gringo2011]

I would be less confident if we traded out our 1st pick/s again this year or next! But if we can nail the next couple of drafts, and pick up the odd cheap FA or trade for list needs we will be off and running.

Just think by that time we could have Windhager, Owens, Phillipou & Hotton playing full time mids, plus whoever else we add. Heath killing it in the ruck, Van Es and Adams holding down key defensive positions and Keeler, Hayes & Caminiti providing the 2nd and 3rd tall roles we desparately need.

If we lose NWM we will pick up a decent trade eg Bergman. So the future is a lot brighter than it may seem atm.

If all of those guys make it to be best 22 players it will be an over achievement if you go by history. Not many players make the grade let alone become bedrock best 22 players. You'd think that's still at least 3 or 4 years away too. I'm desperate for wins now.

 

[gringo2011]

I just don't understand what is left to find out. We blooded heaps of young players under Ratten. I don't think we need to spend an entire year figuring out if a handful of players will make it or not. We finished 10th and 10th the last two years, to me we don't have a premiership list and that hasn't been developed properly so we will need to undertake a rebuild to fix that, primarily the issues we now face of having brought in older established players for the sake of going to the draft. Why does a coach like Ross Lyon need 12 months to figure that out? Our deficiencies seem pretty obvious.

However, with the list we currently have, we should be playing finals this year. If we missed by a game last year, have an easier schedule this year coupled with an apparently vastly improved coaching staff and standards, then finding 1 or 2 wins should not be a problem.

To me (and probably others), spending a year to "find out" about players seems like an excuse. If Ross truly believes in a possibility mindset then why doesn't he apply that thinking to this year. He has deliberately watered down expectation with the "year of exploration" stuff but we shouldn't just accept that, we have a list capable of playing finals and so that should be the aim. Fremantle had 14 wins and finished 7th the first year under Ross in a year he said that he needed to find out about the list as well. No reason why that can't be us.

I feel like the narrative coming from him is that we are going to slide a bit because we're going to try new things and play kids. We've played kids last year and the year before that. We can do both.

It won't take much either - a bit of mental fortitude instilled into the players should be enough to get 1 or 2 more wins. If they actually have a crack every quarter of every game that's all it will take, too often we have gone to sleep or not turned up and it has cost us come the end of the year. It won't take much to find ourselves playing finals this year. I don't understand why people are okay with us not making the eight - it's gettable and we should be expecting it as supporters.

My hope is that Ross is saying he'll cull hard to get them playing for their careers and it's a ploy.

 

[Mowman]

I said from the day we got the first hard core link to Ross.

That we will ultimately walk away at the end of this season and know what we have on this list.

Is it good?

Is it bad?

Do we need more to contend?

Do we need to do a mini rebuild?

I stand by that.

If anyone had expectations Ross was going to elevate us immediately - then I question if they have actually listened to the man himself

We finished 10th last year 1 game out of finals losing 8 of the last 11

I dont think its to much for long suffering supporters to expect with a much better head coach with his hand picked team to support him to win at least 2 more games.

if we are in that bad of a position that we need a full rebuild Bassett & Leathlean should stand down

 

[stavro#4]

We finished 10th last year 1 game out of finals losing 8 of the last 11

I dont think its to much for long suffering supporters to expect with a much better head coach with his hand picked team to support him to win at least 2 more games.

if we are in that bad of a position that we need a full rebuild Bassett & Leathlean should stand down

And yet the man himself said he needs 12 months. Just like the first time here and at Freo.

We will know what position we are in by September.

Ultimately - it isn’t about a finals series. It’s about winning the god damn thing. Now injuries haven’t helped and I’m not saying we should write the year off.

But if by years end he wants to make wholesale changes. It means this cake isn’t good enough to get to the big dance.

 

[George]

My hope is that Ross is saying he'll cull hard to get them playing for their careers and it's a ploy.

I'm just so sick of the excuses. We appointed Lyon and the rest of the footy dept newbies so we couldn't make excuses, but now they have arrived that's what we're doing. Not making finals this year would be a failure any way you slice it IMO. If we want to be truly elite then we develop the list and play finals at the same time. Sides like Geelong and Sydney have no issue with it.

 

[gringo2011]

And yet the man himself said he needs 12 months. Just like the first time here and at Freo.

We will know what position we are in by September.

Ultimately - it isn’t about a finals series. It’s about winning the god damn thing. Now injuries haven’t helped and I’m not saying we should write the year off.

But if by years end he wants to make wholesale changes. It means this cake isn’t good enough to get to the big dance.

He's not selling the season so far. I've gone from can't wait to can't wait until it's over.

 

[George]

I'm desperate for wins now.

This is the same for a majority of the supporter base. Tired of waiting and being told it'll all come good and we just need to wait another year.

 

[Mowman]

And yet the man himself said he needs 12 months. Just like the first time here and at Freo.

We will know what position we are in by September.

Ultimately - it isn’t about a finals series. It’s about winning the god damn thing. Now injuries haven’t helped and I’m not saying we should write the year off.

But if by years end he wants to make wholesale changes. It means this cake isn’t good enough to get to the big dance.

Yeah i get

But if at years end he wants/needs to make wholesale changes the people that have been there for a while need to go

I love the club its part of my family but I'm F##king done with its ok lets wait for next year, because we will get to the end of next year and we will hear the same thing

Enough is enough just get it right and stop bullshitting supporters and if you're not up to the job move on

 

[SaintsofSteel]

If all of those guys make it to be best 22 players it will be an over achievement if you go by history. Not many players make the grade let alone become bedrock best 22 players. You'd think that's still at least 3 or 4 years away too. I'm desperate for wins now.

The St Kilda of the past you might have been right, but I am confident our talent identification and player development is now 500% better than it was. You only have to see these kids train/playing to know they are our future.