List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[pebblesofsand]

Who is the comparison between Pebbles?

A GOP who can't a game for us in the seniors and another gop called Tom De Koning.

 

[moirae42]

Ross has already said that we will be going to the draft.

I don't have a problem with seeing Gresham go for a 2nd rounder. It's all he is worth.

Sure you want to maximize that currency, but be realistic. He is a pretty poor field kick. Any mid-long range kick is a flat out blast, without any precision or real power. His clearance kicking is bog poor. You all know it.
Has goal sense, but believe it or not, this year has been his best return in the past five seasons.. FIVE YEARS.
At his peak he is a 30-50 goal a year player, but has not been at that level in some time.

So the question is, do you stop his midfield attempt and keep him as a flat out small forward?

What would Dan Butler be worth on the market? Or Higgins? Would you get a better return?

How many blokes on this list are untradeable?

Two? Three? Owens, Nas....? Who else?

Who is actually going to get it done?

 

[CursingFijian]

So TDK and Dow are now guns?

St Kilda has that affect on opposition players.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Ross has already said that we will be going to the draft.

I don't have a problem with seeing Gresham go for a 2nd rounder. It's all he is worth.

Sure you want to maximize that currency, but be realistic. He is a pretty poor field kick. Any mid-long range kick is a flat out blast, without any precision or real power. His clearance kicking is bog poor. You all know it.
Has goal sense, but believe it or not, this year has been his best return in the past five seasons.. FIVE YEARS.
At his peak he is a 30-50 goal a year player, but has not been at that level in some time.

So the question is, do you stop his midfield attempt and keep him as a flat out small forward?

What would Dan Butler be worth on the market? Or Higgins? Would you get a better return?

How many blokes on this list are untradeable?

Two? Three? Owens, Nas....? Who else?

Who is actually going to get it done?

Prefer both Butler and Higgins to Gresh actually.

 

[beside the seaside]

Sam Mitchell will turn Gresh into top 5 most lethal small forward

Can he fix the fact that he struggles to kick the ball more than 30 metres?

 

[TheNewEnsign]

Sam Mitchell will turn Gresh into top 5 most lethal small forward

Maybe he does, but it's not really relevant tbh because he's not going to be that for us. I think we've settled on Higgins in that role, who has done pretty well this year (5th in the Coleman out of small forwards) and is 18 months younger than Gresh. Also Hig can kick from more than 35m out (although sometimes he bites off a bit more than he should).

If Steele had stayed at GWS he never would have had game time and would be a second (ish) string midfielder like Bytel for us, probably never the consistency or chance to really explore his potential. GWS were right to let him go however, they didn't see it and had no place for him. Same for Gresh, he just needs a new club and role.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Anyone who can’t kick 40m can frankly get stuffed

 

[70s sainter]

Maybe he does, but it's not really relevant tbh because he's not going to be that for us. I think we've settled on Higgins in that role, who has done pretty well this year (5th in the Coleman out of small forwards) and is 18 months younger than Gresh. Also Hig can kick from more than 35m out (although sometimes he bites off a bit more than he should).

If Steele had stayed at GWS he never would have had game time and would be a second (ish) string midfielder like Bytel for us, probably never the consistency or chance to really explore his potential. GWS were right to let him go however, they didn't see it and had no place for him. Same for Gresh, he just needs a new club and role.

Agree. We don’t have many players with currency that are above our needs . He is one because as a mid it hasn’t worked for him . Mids are our absolute priority.

 

[moirae42]

Absolute priority.

 

[sunny3193]

A GOP who can't a game for us in the seniors and another gop called Tom De Koning.

Well you’ve given me half of the equation.
Your comparison remains as clear as mud.

 

[BigMonty]

Wood had as many clangers as Gresh had disposals against Blues. Cannot have two chaotic decision makers in Gresh and Higgins in fwd 50, prefer Higgins and Billings, least you know what you get with Jack.

Gresh may be better in a different set up...so go with our blessing....get a pick in the 20s is what I would expect.

My take on our young players...Sharman has hard hands and drops plenty realitively simple marks, Membrey does not. Not sure Coops makes it have Con Gorozidies feelings about him. Sadly.

Camaniti will be a player and will get much better in next three years. Someone said bit like North's Petrie...yes please I'd that is the case. Doesn't drop many when he gets his hands on them alas Coops does.

So unless we get something decent Membrey and Jack stay... with Butler Higgins and King the others in the fwd 50.
Must say Wood and Membrey as wingers is a mouth watering thought.

McKenzie was almost first picked when played so he should be an inclusion next year with Coffield.

Backs settled and replacements coming on at Sandy.

So Flanders hasn't resigned suggests he is leaving Dodge. The deal just has to be negotiated...better if he nominates us.

Cannot see Parish coming just makes no sense.

Melbourne will get Pick 1 from WCE bookmark it.
We can get GCS pick 6 and potentially get Sanders otherwise stay where we are.
Few variables at the moment but would seriously consider a worst case trade of our current and future first for their First and Flanders and maybe Sharpe thrown in.

We could have in effect Coffield McKenzie and Flanders as new players with Sanders as the new boom recruit and second season injury delayed Ollie Hotton.

That's 5 players to interchange with current 23 players the likes of Gresh Byrnes Sharman Stocker and Clarke. Throw in Hill as well.

Selection next year will be interesting.



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[PoppedCorn]

Sam Mitchell will turn Gresh into top 5 most lethal small forward

Will play him on the goal line so he makes the distance

 

[pebblesofsand]

Well you’ve given me half of the equation.
Your comparison remains as clear as mud.

We only have 1 GOP ruckman running around in the 2's who's played 56 senior games.

The league is full of GOP rucks, no sense overpaying for them.

 

[sunny3193]

We only have 1 GOP ruckman running around in the 2's who's played 56 senior games.

The league is full of GOP rucks, no sense overpaying for them.

Is there some reason why you can’t say his name?
We have a Voldemort rucking at Sandringham?

 

[MrFoster]

Not popular opinion, but we should get Flanders, Crouch, Dow and 2 more young mids from the draft, get a competent tap ruckman that can actually win some clear taps, will change our midfield instantly.

 

[joydivision22]

I don’t think we need another ruck.

Marshall is great as a ruck but we need to ask him to be a ruckman.. not a ruckman / link up midfielder who also goes forward and drops behind the play. His best footy is winning clearances and pushing forward and being a marking target, which is a much more classic role. He’d need to put on more size and run less ks.

To add to that.. young Keeler is showing plenty at vfl level in year 1 as that aerobic ruck. Plays the style of football that could play earlier if he can build up the tank.

Heath slowly building each facet up but won’t be ready until his size becomes the advantage at around 24-25yo. Campbell is still strong back up.

 

[Jade Buddha]

We will trade in mids around 23years old not draft them.


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??

 

[PandaG]

People blamed Richo and Ratts , well let me tell you not a lot has changed with RTB and the list is better than what it was a few years ago, I really don't see a light at the end of the tunnel

All that has changed is that Ross knows the list is shit, the other two thought we were in the window. Ratts and richo were absolutely horrendous

 

[PandaG]

I'm pretty worried by the time that we eventually/ever draft some talented midfielders and work on that department - it's going to be the same time we say goodbye to our key players i.e Steele, Sincs, Hill, Wilkie, Wood and we'll be stuck in the same cycle of mediocrity. A horrible position to be in.

They arnt the priority with the current coaches so please don’t worry

Hill & Steele should be moved on now and Wood will help develop the new bunch. Sincs and Wilkie could play longer and be key experienced leaders when our younger guys get to 25-26

And from where I have been watching
Outside of Sincs and Wilkie, hill and Steele are far from being out key players

 

[MrFoster]

All that has changed is that Ross knows the list is s**t, the other two thought we were in the window. Ratts and richo were absolutely horrendous

to be fair, Ratts did try to fix the problem, except he identified the wrong problem.

He looked at the stats in Richo years, we get plenty of forward 50 entries, but has very low conversion rate, so he thought if we add more run/polish, it’ll fix the problem. What he missed was that every chance we had, we just long bomb on King’s head King all game for fun.. didn’t have the midfield craft or the mids that can actually win the ball and feed the runners..

And Rath is the guy feeding him stats.. Rath is an idiot, anyone who can’t see we have problem winning the contested ball is blind.. that’s why using stats to tell a story is not always accurate.. Billings scores high in champion data, but does bugger all with the ball chipping side ways and backwards.. Marshall is elite in scoring champion data points, but can’t win a tap to advantage to save himself, that’s why our midfield functioned so much better every time Ryder was rucking last year. Heck, Marshall was a CHB in the juniors, only played ruck sparingly. And it shows. Yes he get lots of kicks, but most of them are to no one, I’d rather those possessions were hand ball to a mid streaming forward.

 

[Sun Ra]

to be fair, Ratts did try to fix the problem, except he identified the wrong problem.

He looked at the stats in Richo years, we get plenty of forward 50 entries, but has very low conversion rate, so he thought if we add more run/polish, it’ll fix the problem. What he missed was that every chance we had, we just long bomb on King’s head King all game for fun.. didn’t have the midfield craft or the mids that can actually win the ball and feed the runners..

And Rath is the guy feeding him stats.. Rath is an idiot, anyone who can’t see we have problem winning the contested ball is blind.. that’s why using stats to tell a story is not always accurate.. Billings scores high in champion data, but does bugger all with the ball chipping side ways and backwards.. Marshall is elite in scoring champion data points, but can’t win a tap to advantage to save himself, that’s why our midfield functioned so much better every time Ryder was rucking last year. Heck, Marshall was a CHB in the juniors, only played ruck sparingly. And it shows. Yes he get lots of kicks, but most of them are to no one, I’d rather those possessions were hand ball to a mid streaming forward.

Agree about Ryder - when he was fit and in the ruck it was a chalk and cheese comparison with when Marshall was in there imo.
Not to say that Marshall doesn't compete and his game against the Dees a few weeks ago where he took Gawn and Grundy to the
cleaners shows what he can do.

I was disappointed the club didn't keep Paddy on as a Ruck Coach actually - he would have been great for Keeler as a mentor you'd reckon.

 

[bird_man]

Parish sounding more likely to leave after Scott's interview last night

 

[Yabadoo22]

Anyone who can’t kick 40m can frankly get stuffed

Jack higgins really frustrates me as a player and this is why. Having a set shot for goal, he doesn’t make the distance from 40 out, he lacks composure to size up good options, often just throwing it towards goal, and although he looks to try hard to pressure, he is so slow for a small that he never actually lays a tackle. He only kicks goals through being at the right place at the right time (footy nous) or the odd freakish goal. I will probably get hate for this, but I think he is severely overrated.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Is there some reason why you can’t say his name?
We have a Voldemort rucking at Sandringham?

Ha ha - nah I'm just following the selection panel.

He's clearly a persona non grata in their view (and many in this forum) irrespective of the fact that he has been as statistically effective as many of the options put forward to "partner" Marshall in the future.

Putting Voldemort aside, I've just been staggered that throughout a year where we have at times absolutely struggled to have an effective forward presence, the selectors have never tried used any of the three ruck/forward options that we have running around at Sandy in unison with Marshall.

So if that's their attitude, why bother chasing another ruck/forward?

 

[BrutThough]

Parish sounding more likely to leave after Scott's interview last night

Off to Geelong you'd assume.