Autopsy Round 10 - West Coast v St Kilda

[sasaint]

McClennan selection just as diabolical as it seemed

I don’t think we will see McClennan again in the senior side. RTB looked like he was going to have a stroke when Gus passed to the Eagles player.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Serious question - were the umpires local WA umpires? Have never seen such abysmal, lopsided decisions. Even the commentary identified they were extremely lenient on West Coast time allowed to hold the ball in tackles.

 

[StCicatriz]

In all fairness, Ryan is probably West Coast's best player this year.

I love Ryan. Spent many years watching him in the WAFL he's hardly an inside mid!!!

 

[sauce_head]

In his presser Ross mentioned Macrae getting a knee in the back and needing scans.

I didn’t notice anything.

Hopefully he’s ok.

Probably from Reid. The amount of times that guy puts his knees into people on the ground is insane. Nobody mentions it.

 

[PJays]

In terms of soul crushing losses post rebuild (2013) where does this rank?

v Port 2021
and
v Essendon 2017

Today wasn't even the worst game this season, honestly.

For example the Dogs seem to annihilate us every year or so. And usually early in the year.

And considering those are at Marvel- where we fancy ourselves- they seem worse to me.

Really hard to feel any hope at all whatsoever considering how many false dawns we've had 2016 ononwards.

I can't think of any time in the past 15 years where we've had a group of young players like Nas, King (he's only 24), Phillipou, Henry, Owens, Wilson, Windhager, Caminiti, Travaglia, and Tauru.

Many have shown plenty (Nas would possibly be AA if the team was picked today. Many had King AA at the halfway point of the 2022 season). Others are more potential based comments (Travaglia, Tauru). But nonetheless we've got an exciting young crew.

And we're playing more kids this year than anyone- including West Coast or Richmond- and who knows where that leads in 1 or 2 years time.

There's your hope.

 

[Plugger35]

In terms of soul crushing losses post rebuild (2013) where does this rank?

v Port 2021
and
v Essendon 2017

probably the only two that stand out this much?
Going down to the dogs 100+ in 2021 got us an open letter but with four years of ****all between then and now I think this might top the lot.

Really hard to feel any hope at all whatsoever considering how many false dawns we've had 2016 onwards.

It's not the worst loss I've seen but it is up there considering we lost to a team that hasn't won a game for more than a year.

It wasn't surprising though, West Coast have been getting close to a win and we opened the door with the help of their umpires.

It's a far cry from the good old days of the 90s when we could beat West Coast at home against the odds and against the umpires.




A shame we sacked the guy that coached us in that game at the end of the year even though he took us to finals 2 years in a row.

 

[EddieMurphy]

They've got Harley Reid- one of the most highly rated youngsters to enter the AFL system in decades. Now in year 2

This year they added Graham and Baker- 2-time premiership players with close to 150 games experience.

They've got Oscar Allen who managed to kick 53 goals in 2023 in a team that won 3 games. He's played about 50% of games over the past 18 months but played today.

Last season they were 4-8 in 12 games in Perth, with 3 of those wins by 35 points or more. That's not an embarrassing record at all. Coming into this season, there was reason to think they might exceed that in 2025. Maybe they still do.

All those things didn't stop them losing 9 games this year, including 4 or 5 games in Perth? Appreciate your optimism but it's got to be tempered with realism. We comprehensively got out played in the basics, the non negotiables like effort and tackling. Our team selection makes no sense to fans or industry pundits. Our list management, we just need some honesty from the club, we have years of grind before any sort of success.

 

[westernsainter]

Today wasn't even the worst game this season, honestly.

For example the Dogs seem to annihilate us every year or so. And usually early in the year.

And considering those are at Marvel- where we fancy ourselves- they seem worse to me.



I can't think of any time in the past 15 years where we've had a group of young players like Nas, King (he's only 24), Phillipou, Henry, Owens, Wilson, Windhager, Caminiti, Travaglia, and Tauru.

Many have shown plenty (Nas would possibly be AA if the team was picked today. Many had King AA at the halfway point of the 2022 season). Others are more potential based comments (Travaglia, Tauru). But nonetheless we've got an exciting young crew.

And we're playing more kids this year than anyone- including West Coast or Richmond- and who knows where that leads in 1 or 2 years time.

There's your hope.

I have very little faith that Henry or Caminiti are ever going to be more than depth and I'm not seeing it with Windhager or Wilson this year either if I'm being honest.

Going into 2017 I was extremely bullish about a group of blokes under 24, which included the following players we all rated as future talent: Battle, Phillips, Gresham, Long, Goddard, Lonie, McKenzie, McCartin, Steele, Marshall, Acres, Billings, Sinclair, Dunstan, Membrey, Webster, Longer, Ross, Newnes and Bruce.

Eight are still in the league. Four playing for us.

I think I'm ready to start being realistic about our young talent until they start to rack up coaches votes, AA40 nominations and wins - external confirmation that we are actually developing.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Brad Hill needs to play VFL next week. Hunter Clarke will offer more than him.

If he’s selected next week, selection integrity is in the bin.

Should look to move him on at the end of year, just pay him out. Scared to make contact.


Still think Caminiti is a liability on field. Hope I’m wrong about him.

Higgins is a star, doesn’t stop giving 110%. Glad he picked his bag.

Caminiti is not and never will be a defender that’s the problem he was actually showing potential early in his career when played up forward

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Wilson needs a spell for his own sake, currently the worst kick in the league by some distance

Great idea get rid of one of the few players we have that can actually cover the ground at pace Wilson is the least of our problems

 

[westernsainter]

Great idea get rid of one of the few players we have that can actually cover the ground at pace Wilson is the least of our problems

Oh I'm certainly not saying get rid, I just think for the sake of his development he could really use dropping down a couple weeks to get his mojo back. Worked wonders for Pou last year.

 

[Plugger35]

I know Supercoach scores aren't the be all and end all but it rates players impact on the game and Caminiti was our 5th highest rated player behind Marshall, Sinclair, Wilkie and Steele.

That surprised me as I don't think he had a great game today but he is worth persisting with given our lack of quality tall KPPs.

As for Wilson I thought he was pretty good today, he provided some run and kicked a couple of goals, I wouldn't be dropping him.

I would be dropping Garcia and Collard before him for Boxshall and Butler, Hill should be on thin ice too but he won't get dropped.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Normally Nas has astronomical meters gained.
We played him in the midfield and we lost a lot of that, and we weren't great in the midfield.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I know Supercoach scores aren't the be all and end all but it rates players impact on the game and Caminiti was our 5th highest rated player behind Marshall, Sinclair, Wilkie and Steele.

That surprised me as I don't think he had a great game today but he is worth persisting with given our lack of quality tall KPPs.

As for Wilson I thought he was pretty good today, he provided some run and kicked a couple of goals, I wouldn't be dropping him.

I would be dropping Garcia and Collard before him for Boxshall and Butler, Hill should be on thin ice too but he won't get dropped.

Butler had 3 disposals in the VFL.
( But did kick 2 goals ).

In hindsight ,Jones or Clark would have been a better inclusion than either Philipou or Travaglia.

 

[Plugger35]

Butler had 3 disposals in the VFL.
( But did kick 2 goals ).

In hindsight ,Jones or Clark would have been a better inclusion than either Philipou or Travaglia.

Phillipou was pretty good, he didn't get a lot of it but when he did get it he used it well, he's a class act and we don't have many.

Travaglia didn't get much of a chance as the sub, he needs to get more of a chance with a full game.

I think it's safe to say that we aren't playing finals so it's time to start giving the kids more of a crack.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Disgraceful effort. I knew we were going to lose this game when I saw Macrae just stand still and let his opponent slowly jog past him with the ball in the opening minutes.

List build and selection just doesn't make sense. We're carrying too many mids who can't get the ball and/or kick it to a teammate. Our wings are fumbly turnover merchants who dominate the GPS. We played a bloke who can't hit a target in the VFL. We continue to play Byrnes in defence who is an absolute liability. Our only power forward can't get on the park.

Good thing we're going to land our 1.7mil big fish to replace our ruck who just had 27 disposals, 40 hitouts, 8 marks, 5 tackles, 5 clearances and a goal. We'll probably end up trading him out for a third rounder next year after the two rucks don't work together.

As many others have mentioned, the squad is physically weak compared to other clubs. Yet there is no evidence of this so-called superior running capacity reaping any reward.

 

[Plugger35]

How do you solve a problem like St Kilda?

Not even the greatest minds in the world can work that one out.

 

[LuckyBounce!]

How do you solve a problem like St Kilda?

Not even the greatest minds in the world can work that one out.

Merge or re-locate

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Cupboard is bare for next week. Jones, Clark, Heath, Box put their hands up so we could see some shuffling of the mids. I hope we finally have a look at Heath.

Spots are there for the taking if Henry and Butler could do anything but they're barely VFL standard at the moment.

 

[Ads734]

Ik this goes against most of the whining. But checks notes

We won
Clearances and contested ball. Now fine maybe we evened up clearances after game was done but still. It’s fairly obvious the game was won from our turnovers as Ross spoke about. NOT our midfield.

The game was lost here.

Clangers

 

[tomjoad]

Supporting St.Kilda is just like being in an abusive relationship, stupidly and blindly believing that things will change.
Oh well.

 

[bergholt]

Ross said the midfield mix was wrong and we've lost the ability to move it from back to forward, I reckon that's about the sum of it.

The problem and answer are Sinclair and Nas.

Neither of them are mids. Playing them in the midfield is robbing Peter to pay Paul cents on the dollar - we basically always look worse in that situation. I totally get why they're trying it, because we're short of dynamism in the midfield, but it's time to give up on that. Leave them at half back and keep that our ball-movement strength.

 

[bergholt]

Ross said the midfield mix was wrong and we've lost the ability to move it from back to forward, I reckon that's about the sum of it.

The problem and answer are Sinclair and Nas.

Neither of them are mids. Playing them in the midfield is robbing Peter to pay Paul cents on the dollar - we basically always look worse in that situation. I totally get why they're trying it, because we're short of dynamism in the midfield, but it's time to give up on that. Leave them at half back and keep that our ball-movement strength.

And then experiment with everything else in the midfield.

Jones is seeing it like a beach ball in the twos, give him a few more shots. Get Clark into the mix once he's match fit. Get Pou back to full fitness. Give Hugo some time in the twos to sharpen him up. See if Maxy Hall can play as a mid for bursts. Get Carroll into form and give him a run. Give Wilson and/or Byrnes an extended run as inside mids in the twos and see if they can impact in there. Keep tempering Boxy and Trav, they both have good attributes.

Hard to do all that and still win games, as we're seeing. A bunch of experimentation is necessary - we have exactly one AFL ready inside mid right now (Macrae) and regardless of short-term wins and losses, we need to get to the point where we have multiple strong mids as soon as possible.

 

[phantom13]

And then experiment with everything else in the midfield.

Jones is seeing it like a beach ball in the twos, give him a few more shots. Get Clark into the mix once he's match fit. Get Pou back to full fitness. Give Hugo some time in the twos to sharpen him up. See if Maxy Hall can play as a mid for bursts. Get Carroll into form and give him a run. Give Wilson and/or Byrnes an extended run as inside mids in the twos and see if they can impact in there. Keep tempering Boxy and Trav, they both have good attributes.

Hard to do all that and still win games, as we're seeing. A bunch of experimentation is necessary - we have exactly one AFL ready inside mid right now (Macrae) and regardless of short-term wins and losses, we need to get to the point where we have multiple strong mids as soon as possible.

Winning games is a bit meaningless now to me. I know I’ve said (and I’m sure everyone follows my every word) that we need to win games and make finals to swing at FAs but a loss like yesterdays kind of kills that anyway, short of winning into the top 4 yesterdays loss (which could be the only one the eagles get this year) is an uncleanable stain on the season imo.

Move the magnets, do whatever, I thought we were in a wide open race in a pack of teams between 5th and 14th but I reckon we might actually be a bottom 4 side this year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Winning games is a bit meaningless now to me. I know I’ve said (and I’m sure everyone follows my every word) that we need to win games and make finals to swing at FAs but a loss like yesterdays kind of kills that anyway, short of winning into the top 4 yesterdays loss (which could be the only one the eagles get this year) is an uncleanable stain on the season imo.

Move the magnets, do whatever, I thought we were in a wide open race in a pack of teams between 5th and 14th but I reckon we might actually be a bottom 4 side this year.

Unless we find a way to win games, we go into next season well drilled on losing games.
Downward spiral.