How do you rate David Koch's tenure as Port president?

[The Terrible Thinker]

Why does Port get 2 to 3 million more per year and 30 more of the last decade more than Crows?

I’m really interested in how this SA situation with the two clubs work because something doesn’t add up…considering the fact that both clubs ultimately have to answer to the AFL commission on all things financial.

A good question for the SANFL to answer between 1997-2014 when they controlled both AFL clubs. The Crows got benefits from the SANFL in having their HQ as Footy Park which Port never got especially being based at Alberton. Plus they had access to a larger membership and sponsorship base.

Port on the other hand were forced by the SANFL to split club in two separate corporate entities from 1997 to 2011 as part of the AFL sub licence agreement. Both entities then had to compete against each other for dwindling members, sponsors & resources. Originally Port only wanted to transition into the AFL and not bother with an SANFL club going forward for this reason. Keep in mind there was no AFL reserves sides in SA, dropped AFL players had to go back to their designated SANFL team to get a run.

The AFL recognized the sh!t sandwich the SANFL was giving Port and decided to step in after 2014. SANFL had the last laugh though by charging us $4M for the sub-licence in 1997, then another $4M for us to transfer control to the in AFL 2014.

After negotiating a better stadium deal in 2015, things started to turn around for the club and we will clear our legacy debt this year.

Do we attribute this success to Koch and Co. Maybe from an commercial point in terms of new sponsorship and opportunities. But Andrew Demetriou & Brett Duncanson ultimately turn around this club from the bin fire it was heading towards in 2012. Along with Tim Giniver & George Fiacchi who merged the separate AFL & SANFL PAFC entities back into one.

 

[Shane Heard]

Adelaide are a bigger club than Port. Port have bridged the gap but they are still bigger. Just like Essendon are a bigger club than Melbourne.

Yes well we might be “bigger” than the MFC but so are many others.

You should see our annual report..which btw has a tiny link for members who want to peruse the finer details.

It’s a complex web of a report detailing the income and liabilities of this big club.

Essendon FC have three main properties under their management that make up the bulk of the outgoing numbers.

Tullamarine training centre..Windy Hill and the Melton Gaming Club.

I’m pretty sure we’re still paying off the fines, payouts and other costs linked to the mess we got into a few years ago.

You need to be a forensic accountant to fully understand it.

Essendon Football Club 2024 Financial Result

Essendon has released its 2024 Annual Report.

www.essendonfc.com.au

 

[Shane Heard]

A good question for the SANFL to answer between 1997-2014 when they controlled both AFL clubs. The Crows got benefits from the SANFL in having their HQ as Footy Park which Port never got especially being based at Alberton. Plus they had access to a larger membership and sponsorship base.

Port on the other hand were forced by the SANFL to split club in two separate corporate entities from 1997 to 2011 as part of the AFL sub licence agreement. Both entities then had to compete against each other for dwindling members, sponsors & resources. Originally Port only wanted to transition into the AFL and not bother with an SANFL club going forward for this reason. Keep in mind there was no AFL reserves sides in SA, dropped AFL players had to go back to their designated SANFL team to get a run.

The AFL recognized the sh!t sandwich the SANFL was giving Port and decided to step in after 2014. SANFL had the last laugh though by charging us $4M for the sub-licence in 1997, then another $4M for us to transfer control to the in AFL 2014.

After negotiating a better stadium deal in 2015, things started to turn around for the club and we will clear our legacy debt this year.

Do we attribute this success to Koch and Co. Maybe from a commercial point in terms of new sponsorship and opportunities. But Andrew Demetriou & Brett Duncanson ultimately turn around this club from the bin fire it was heading towards in 2012. Along with Tim Giniver & George Fiacchi who merged the separate AFL & SANFL PAFC entities back into one.

8 million? Jesus.

It’s sounds like the eggs running the SANFL at the time were hell bent on making Port Magies pay dearly for their decision to enter the AFL.

Which is ridiculously petty and unnecessary.

 

[rocket18]

Why does Port get 2 to 3 million more per year and 30 more of the last decade more than Crows?

I’m really interested in how this SA situation with the two clubs work because something doesn’t add up…considering the fact that both clubs ultimately have to answer to the AFL commission on all things financial.

Crows charge more than Port for their season tickets.

Both clubs have the same shitty deal with the SMA.

Port also has pokie income, I think they have two venues? Port person would know more about that then me.

Crows didn't go down the pokies path.

8 million? Jesus.

It’s sounds like the eggs running the SANFL at the time were hell bent on making Port Magies pay dearly for their decision to enter the AFL.

Which is ridiculously petty and unnecessary.

Yep, the Crows have had to pay their licence fee twice as well

Once when we entered and then again in 2014.

The 2014 fee was about 4 or 5 million more than Port had to pay despite the two licences having identical conditions.

This is all from memory, there's a very good poster on the Port board that has the facts and figures. REH.

 

[ibd77]

8 million? Jesus.

It’s sounds like the eggs running the SANFL at the time were hell bent on making Port Magies pay dearly for their decision to enter the AFL.

Which is ridiculously petty and unnecessary.

1990 was a fun time in SA apparently. Being 13, I probably didn't understand the full extent of what was actually happening.

The SANFL did a lot of things right in the 80's but they were consumed by their arrogance which led to conflict in the 90's. That arrogance is still present today even though their league is in serious decline.

The next battle lines will be grass roots footy and junior development in SA. The SANFL are not investing enough money or resources into this, leaving the pool of potential AFL talent very thin. Not good for Port or the Crows long term future for recruitment and player retention.

 

[Shane Heard]

1990 was a fun time in SA apparently. Being 13, I probably didn't understand the full extent of what was actually happening.

The SANFL did a lot of things right in the 80's but they were consumed by their arrogance which led to conflict in the 90's. That arrogance is still present today even though their league is in serious decline.

The next battle lines will be grass roots footy and junior development in SA. The SANFL are not investing enough money or resources into this, leaving the pool of potential AFL talent very thin. Not good for Port or the Crows long term future for recruitment and player retention.

The juniors part ..absolute insanity if they’re neglecting that area. SA has undoubtedly more pro Aussie rules interest from the public than WA. They are footy fanatics like Victorians.

Here in Perth, pommie parents and many others lean towards soccer and basketball participation for young Billy while the state AFL U16/colts system is compromised by development officers favouring only the elite talent.

 

[ibd77]

The juniors part ..absolute insanity if they’re neglecting that area. SA has undoubtedly more pro Aussie rules interest from the public than WA. They are footy fanatics like Victorians.

Here in Perth, pommie parents and many others lean towards soccer and basketball participation for young Billy while the state AFL U16/colts system is compromised by development officers favouring only the elite talent.

Got to ask our CEO serious question about junior development and he said a few interesting things.

1. The AFL should consider an under 18's national competition with all clubs represented.

2. Reintroduction of zoning so AFL clubs can invest their own time and money in their regions and not rely of third party leagues to do this for them.

I doubt this will happen as Gillon was unresponsive to an national reserves competition. Dillon is completely useless, probably the worst AFL CEO to date. His legacy will be more scandals as chases the dollar and not reinvesting back into the league. The situation with the umpires is diabolical.

 

[kickazz]

He is a knob, but he got rid of the tarps.

 

[Papa G]

Off topic. But I've always thought the WAFL and SANFL teams should be financially rewarded for producing talent. At the moment there really isn't any incentive to produce great juniors, you're only going to lose them to the AFL. Why would you bother? But if your WAFL/SANFL club gets paid for producing talent, the carrot is way bigger.

 

[ibd77]

Off topic. But I've always thought the WAFL and SANFL teams should be financially rewarded for producing talent. At the moment there really isn't any incentive to produce great juniors, you're only going to lose them to the AFL. Why would you bother? But if your WAFL/SANFL club gets paid for producing talent, the carrot is way bigger.

Should transfer fees be a thing in trades?

 

[Shane Heard]

He is a knob, but he got rid of the tarps.

He’s a tarp eliminator.

One could bask in that glory..i suppose.

 

[Shane Heard]

Off topic. But I've always thought the WAFL and SANFL teams should be financially rewarded for producing talent. At the moment there really isn't any incentive to produce great juniors, you're only going to lose them to the AFL. Why would you bother? But if your WAFL/SANFL club gets paid for producing talent, the carrot is way bigger.

Are you serious?

Where would you distribute the money paid forth on junior development candidates?


The entire aim of the junior system on a national level is to generate elite talent that can handle league level at 18/19/20 years of age.


That league being..the Australian Football League.

Where the f are you going to send them elsewhere? The WAFL or SANFL or VFL?

Those leagues are for second tier re tardos who can’t cut it in the big comp.

 

[Papa G]

Um. I reckon you missed the entire point there. The point of the system in Victoria where the non descript Oakleigh Bumbandits play the Western Prepubescents or whatever they are called is to produce souless AFL drones, it is their entire reason for being. They aren't real clubs. The SANFL and WAFL clubs are real clubs who are striving to win their competitions for their own reasons. What is their incentive to create AFL players? What is their incentive for great junior development if they are going to put the work in then just lose the player to the AFL? There is none so why would you bother? It's easier to pay some 24 year old gumby from Mildura $30k a year to play. The point is there isn't the incentive for the SANFL and WAFL for junior development, we can see that in the numbers, the talent coming out of SA and WA seems to be less and less.

 

[Shane Heard]

Um. I reckon you missed the entire point there. The point of the system in Victoria where the non descript Oakleigh Bumbandits play the Western Prepubescents or whatever they are called is to produce souless AFL drones, it is their entire reason for being. They aren't real clubs. The SANFL and WAFL clubs are real clubs who are striving to win their competitions for their own reasons. What is their incentive to create AFL players? What is their incentive for great junior development if they are going to put the work in then just lose the player to the AFL? There is none so why would you bother? It's easier to pay some 24 year old gumby from Mildura $30k a year to play. The point is there isn't the incentive for the SANFL and WAFL for junior development, we can see that in the numbers, the talent coming out of SA and WA seems to be less and less.

The Victorian U19 comp is called the talent league for a reason.

To develop elite talent by grouping the talent together in teams representing the area they come from.

Obviously they aren’t real clubs. They are development squads.



“The competition is the primary sources of recruitment for the clubs of the AFL with around three quarters of all players selected from its ranks in each AFL draft.[2] It provides an opportunity for talented young regional players to participate in a high standard competition without having to relocate too far from their place of origin. The competition has a very successful pathway with players missing AFL selection often being recruited by semi-professional state, country and regional leagues throughout Australia.”


The WAFL in the last 20 years is a joke.


More than half the teams in the league have zero chance of winning flag because of the resources available to the stronger clubs and the AFL aligned ones.

 

[Daka]

He brought stability to the club at a time when they needed it, probably has overstayed his welcome a bit imo not sure what PA fans think of that.

I think people will look at his time as a bit of a mixed bag no Premiership which counts for a lot. but brought good stability on and off-field. and the club is in a pretty good position financially I would suggest.

 

[Papa G]

Shane Heard. This is exactly my point. The Victorian system is 100% designed to produce AFL players. This is not the case in either WA or SA. The path is through the WAFL or the SANFL. That aint changing any time soon. These clubs have no incentive to develop juniors just so they can be taken by AFL clubs. What I'm saying, is that if the WAFL/SANFL clubs were financially incentivised to develop players then maybe they would do a far better job of it.

 

[ibd77]

Shane Heard. This is exactly my point. The Victorian system is 100% designed to produce AFL players. This is not the case in either WA or SA. The path is through the WAFL or the SANFL. That aint changing any time soon. These clubs have no incentive to develop juniors just so they can be taken by AFL clubs. What I'm saying, is that if the WAFL/SANFL clubs were financially incentivised to develop players then maybe they would do a far better job of it.

SANFL's focus is to be the 2nd best league in the country. Not to be a feeder league into the AFL

Most of the league is made up of washed up AFL players trying to get back onto an AFL list or just happy to run around in a second rate league.

However even the claim of 2nd best league is under threat as the senior state team lost to WA and VIC this year.