Hot Topic Michael Voss - Okay, he's gone ... but when?

[DangerousD]

A process is only as good as the applicants

Last process we told the AFL media we only wanted an experienced coach, removing most of the applicants in the process.

 

[DangerousD]

I guess what I'm saying is your above point would have applied last time.
Our final three was Voss, Kingsley and Giansiracusa.
Here's an article from a year or so before we were looking

Coaches next in line: The assistants with the most impressive CVs

Where do the next batch of first-time senior AFL coaches come from? Check it out

www.afl.com.au

That’s 4 years ago and doesn’t even include Carr who’s taking over at Port, Cox who got the Swans job, McRae who’s won a flag, Voss who we chose and mcqualter.

So I wouldn’t pay much attention to an article like that in relation to who’s around, if the article didn’t even have several of the next coaches on it.

 

[DangerousD]

That was just an off the cuff remark by Judd. Never an official position (as if you would ever officially have such a position).
Two of the final 3 would have been first time coaches.

I feel it wasn’t just one off hand remark and it was a theme that was mentioned several times, it has even been mentioned here that Kingsley and someone else were offered assistant roles,.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I feel it wasn’t just one off hand remark and it was a theme that was mentioned several times, it has even been mentioned here that Kingsley and someone else were offered assistant roles,.

Actually that was before the Teague appointment anyway

 

[DangerousD]

Actually that was before the Teague appointment anyway

I have just asked ChatGPT and it has said that Sayers explicitly stated the club was seeking the best, most experienced coach to lead the team in 2022.

That’s from an article in fox sports.

It also said the club publicly emphasised their intention to appoint an experienced coach.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

That’s 4 years ago and doesn’t even include Carr who’s taking over at Port, Cox who got the Swans job, McRae who’s won a flag, Voss who we chose and mcqualter.

So I wouldn’t pay much attention to an article like that in relation to who’s around, if the article didn’t even have several of the next coaches on it.

That was more or less the field before we replaced Teague

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I have just asked ChatGPT and it has said that Sayers explicitly stated the club was seeking the best, most experienced coach to lead the team in 2022.

That’s from an article in fox sports.

It also said the club publicly emphasised their intention to appoint an experienced coach.

Why didn't apply that should have?

 

[DangerousD]

Why didn't apply that should have?

I remember we interviewed Pyke at the time, we were constantly linked to Clarkson with talk here a few times that a deal was likely, we were linked with Lyon but ultimately i have no idea who else applied.

I assume because the club made it clear we were after a coach who already had experience, that all the quality assistants didn’t apply or didn’t progress in the process.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

it has even been mentioned here that Kingsley and someone else were offered assistant roles

Yes Voss was seen as better leader, Kingsley as better tactically. They tried to get best of both worlds.
One thing I'll say as that any need for strong & uniting leadership coming out of the Teague situation has passed now, and in fact we risk a new divided situation if things don't start falling into place soon..

 

[DangerousD]

That was more or less the field before we replaced Teague

Just highlighting that there’s lots of others out there that clubs rate, that might not be known to the public, evident by several coaches being appointed who aren’t on that list.

I or most people here would have no idea how good an assistant is, how would anyone outside the industry or even outside a club know.

 

[DangerousD]

Yes Voss was seen as better leader, Kingsley as better tactically. They tried to get best of both worlds.
One thing I'll say as that any need for strong & uniting leadership coming out of the Teague situation has passed now, and in fact we risk a new divided situation if things don't start falling into place soon..

A few have mentioned in regards to assistants, would quality assistants want to come and work under Voss?

 

[swuzzlebubble]

I have just asked ChatGPT and it has said that Sayers explicitly stated the club was seeking the best, most experienced coach to lead the team in 2022.

That’s from an article in fox sports.

It also said the club publicly emphasised their intention to appoint an experienced coach.

Sayers said this in the presser announcing Teague sacking. I think it's a pretty general statement that doesn't specifically rule anyone in or out. 'Most experienced' doesn't just mean senior coaching experience

“It won’t surprise anyone that, come tomorrow, I’ll be in the market looking for the best, most experienced coach to bring the potential of our playing list to the fore. And that will kick off in earnest tomorrow,” Sayers said

 

[swuzzlebubble]

A few have mentioned in regards to assistants, would quality assistants want to come and work under Voss?

I'm in favour of getting a new senior assistant who brings more layers to the game plan.
But I can see this potentially being an issue unless Voss is open to changing things around because there's no point bringing someone in if they can't have enough influence.
But then where does it leave the HC if his game plan is put aside?
Certainly needs to be handled carefully and involve building on strengths we have.

 

[branedotorg]

So he should hold some of them accountable now, set some higher standards on field and drop some players who continue to go against team instructions or minimum output.

charlie curnow? patrick cripps? sam walsh?

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

Don’t worry everyone, he said we’ll get to work again. Everything will be ok..

 

[jj1978]

Is Voss going to be able to accept new assistants and be comfortable being uncomfortable? Basically it’s a step away from the club saying we’ve lost faith in him. Will he be able to be malleable enough to work with them and construct better strategies and improve ball handling? Basically he’d be replaced without being replaced. Just use him for pressers and to make us look better for sticking fat. Behind the scenes could end up super political and chaotic. We are Carlton.

 

[jj1978]

Don’t worry everyone, he said we’ll get to work again. Everything will be ok..

I’m on the train getting to work now. No sign of Voss???

If he’s consistent I suppose we end up having our good half of the season after the bye.

 

[DangerousD]

charlie curnow? patrick cripps? sam walsh?

For sure, it pisses me off that Curnow is in the leadership group, drop him, call Cripps out for being selfish, Walsh the same, make one of them the sub.

Walsh and Cripps are a bit different imo, both try their guts out, sometimes try to much, Curnow on the other hand drops his head and gives up.

There’s plenty of others who are putting up consistent below their own standard performances and should be sent to the VFL

 

[RAPPA]

Is Voss going to be able to accept new assistants and be comfortable being uncomfortable? Basically it’s a step away from the club saying we’ve lost faith in him. Will he be able to be malleable enough to work with them and construct better strategies and improve ball handling? Basically he’d be replaced without being replaced. Just use him for pressers and to make us look better for sticking fat. Behind the scenes could end up super political and chaotic. We are Carlton.

I don't think it's a matter of him accepting new assistants. That suggests he's safe. I'd say any overhaul of the assistants will also come with a new head coach. Vossy is 4 years deep and all things are trending towards a bottom 10 finish. Short of a miracle, he ain't coaching beyond 2025. Also, even if a miracle happens and we repeat 2023, I'd still be inclined to move him and the assistants on because that'll be 4 consecutive years where we played half seasons - not sustainable.

 

[DangerousD]

Sayers said this in the presser announcing Teague sacking. I think it's a pretty general statement that doesn't specifically rule anyone in or out. 'Most experienced' doesn't just mean senior coaching experience

“It won’t surprise anyone that, come tomorrow, I’ll be in the market looking for the best, most experienced coach to bring the potential of our playing list to the fore. And that will kick off in earnest tomorrow,” Sayers said

We then made a long and continued pursuit of Clarkson, interviewed Voss, Pyke and there was the stuff with Lyon and that’s the ones we know about.

To me that’s crystal clear, an assistant coach isn’t an experienced coach, they’ve never coached before.

When the president makes that statement and then targets Clarkson, Lyon, Pyke and settles on Voss, he did exactly as he said, we went and hired the best and most experienced coach (that was interested)

After going rookie coaches with Bolton and Teague and failing, i thought the club was petrified.

But its all good, not everyone sees things the same.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

We then made a long and continued pursuit of Clarkson, interviewed Voss, Pyke and there was the stuff with Lyon and that’s the ones we know about.

To me that’s crystal clear, an assistant coach isn’t an experienced coach, they’ve never coached before.

When the president makes that statement and then targets Clarkson, Lyon, Pyke and settles on Voss, he did exactly as he said, we went and hired the best and most experienced coach (that was interested)

After going rookie coaches with Bolton and Teague and failing, i thought the club was petrified.

But its all good, not everyone sees things the same.

I think the overt pursuit of Clarkson probably impacted more than any "ra ra" statements about wanting the most experienced person

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I changed my vote to Hayden Skipworth

Hayden Skipworth

Age

43

Ht

177cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.3

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

2.4

4star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

5.8

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.4

4star

. Heaps of experience, worked his way up from development coach to midfield coach and senior assistant behind Craig McRae

Craig Mcrae

Age

52

Ht

176cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.9

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.9

4star

G

1.2

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.2

4star

K

10.6

4star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.2

3star

G

1.4

5star

. If there is one thing that works well for the Pies, it's the midfield.

He also understands what it takes to win in the modern game, and what kind of players we need. The Pies cobble together a team that does not have recognisable stars when they start, and then grow into guns. They grab them from everywhere.

 

[kreuze_missile]

I changed my vote to Hayden Skipworth. Heaps of experience, worked his way up from development coach to midfield coach and senior assistant behind Craig McRae. If there is one thing that works well for the Pies, it's the midfield.

He also understands what it takes to win in the modern game, and what kind of players we need. The Pies cobble together a team that does not have recognisable stars when they start, and then grow into guns. They grab them from everywhere.

First thing I do whenever I hear a new assistant coach name is jump onto YouTube and look at some of their previous interviews.

I know nothing about his coaching career but he certainly doesn’t come across as someone with a high IQ.

 

[Jatz]

First thing I do whenever I hear a new assistant coach name is jump onto YouTube and look at some of their previous interviews.

I know nothing about his coaching career but he certainly doesn’t come across as someone with a high IQ.

Why do you think he appealed to Collingwood?

 

[Gointocarlton]

I changed my vote to Hayden Skipworth. Heaps of experience, worked his way up from development coach to midfield coach and senior assistant behind Craig McRae. If there is one thing that works well for the Pies, it's the midfield.

He also understands what it takes to win in the modern game, and what kind of players we need. The Pies cobble together a team that does not have recognisable stars when they start, and then grow into guns. They grab them from everywhere.

Brendan Bolton was the senior assistant and midfield coach at Collingwood under McRae in the premiership year. Just saying.