Test Frank Worrell Trophy Third Test (D/N) West Indies v Australia July 12-16 0400hrs 13/7 @ Sabina Park, Jamaica

[TheGoatBaron]

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

and he'll probably get 'dropped' for the next test.

Who should be 'dropped' to make way for him?

 

[Gethelred]

That was pre-torn calf Lyon though who had strong form behind him whereas post-torn calf Lyon is certainly showing signs of not being as potent or consistent.

No doubt he starts the series in Perth but how he goes there might dictate what they do from that game on especially with another pink ball test looming in what’s proven to be fast-bowler heaven in previous pink-ball Tests in Brisbane.

A Bazball England is certainly vulnerable to spin but that’s only really been evident on those subcontinent tracks. My mad idea is if things go pear-shaped to start the Ashes the Aussies go full Pakistan and scarify the rest of the pitches with old nails ect. & get the giant fans out like they did and go with both Lyon & Kuhnemann, as I back our team easily in subcontinent conditions over them.

Ben Stokes has gone out to two blokes in test cricket more than any other: Ravi Ashwin, and Nathan Lyon. 4 of the top 5 wicket takers against him are spinners. Joe Root has a blatant vulnerability to Cummins and Hazlewood, but Lyon's also gotten him 8 times. If you go through the English middle order - Pope down - they have all had massive issues with Ashwin and Lyon over their careers.

To some extent, this comes courtesy of having played against them quite a bit; you're gonna get repeat wickets against someone you play against a lot. But it's a commonly understood thing within international cricket that just coming to Australia and playing without a spinner means your quicks are gonna get tired. England's successful tour of Australia - the only successful Ashes tour that resulted in the away side's victory - was borne from two things: an inability for Australia to get Alastair Cook out, and them rotating their bowlers to give the quicks who needed it a rest. India just fell here because their centrepiece wasn't fit for the entire series and they couldn't reliably use Jadeja and Ashwin/Sundar to soak up deliveries.

England are going to come after him, purely to put overs into the quicks early. Including Boland instead leaves us looking exceedingly one paced. Lyon has made a habit throughout his career of pulling a rabbit out of the hat when people thought he was done.

I also question whether or not Lyon's form has been down all that much. He's barely had to bowl; games have been over well before day 5, and he's barely seemed to be needed. One of the downsides of fielding an all time pace quartet is that your spinner regardless of quality is going to only get the third or fourth look at the bats.

We'll see, I guess.

 

[western royboy]

It is bloody sad to see the Windies fall from what they became under Clive Lloyd.

No cricket side in history matched the 80's line up.

As much as they smashed us for years (and every other nation) you couldn't help but be in awe at their batsman and the conveyor belt of fast bowlers they produced. They were awesome to watch.

We have all seen the demise of WI test cricket and the standard going down hill for years. So one must ask where are the past greats of that era? Are they involved in WI cricket in any capacity as advisors, specialised coaches etc? Has the WI hierarchy asked them to help the test side in any way, shape or form?

Or don't they simply give a shit?

Imagine having Haynes; Vivi; Greenidge; Lara etc on board to help the batsman. It's not a guaranteed panacea to success but surely it would have to help?

Unfortunately it’s way beyond getting the old boys in to rally the troops. Due to the nature of the West Indies ie. a conglomeration of island nations and changes in revenue streams with changes in society, they are all on the wrong side of these. I would love to suggest it’s just a cyclical thing but it’s not.

 

[cricketnut14]

Who should be 'dropped' to make way for him?

boland will probably be dropped for lyon.

it's a luxury to have 4 gun quicks - can't go wrong in whichever 3 we pick.

 

[Headless]

Blimey!

 

[Westend]

Underprepared wickets with a pink ball and a duke is not test cricket there is too much of an advantage to the bowling units

 

[sr36]

It is bloody sad to see the Windies fall from what they became under Clive Lloyd.

No cricket side in history matched the 80's line up.

As much as they smashed us for years (and every other nation) you couldn't help but be in awe at their batsman and the conveyor belt of fast bowlers they produced. They were awesome to watch.

We have all seen the demise of WI test cricket and the standard going down hill for years. So one must ask where are the past greats of that era? Are they involved in WI cricket in any capacity as advisors, specialised coaches etc? Has the WI hierarchy asked them to help the test side in any way, shape or form?

Or don't they simply give a shit?

Imagine having Haynes; Vivi; Greenidge; Lara etc on board to help the batsman. It's not a guaranteed panacea to success but surely it would have to help?

I think the current bowling dominance around the world being put down to T20 is rubbish in terms of the big cricket nations, but it's true in terms of WI cricket. There's no money in long form cricket in WI. For talented batsmen the money is to be made from giving yourself the space to clear the pickets.

 

[Westend]

Is Carey okay ?? Took a big hit to the helmet when he batted

 

[Cold Sober]

'There were two teams out there today, unfortunately only one was playing cricket'.

 

[revo333]

Now I haven't watched the whole Test match but what was the reason for the send-off from Starc to Seales?

I saw a few send offs from the WI bowlers this test.

 

[Cold Sober]

Pink ball cricket is not 'cricket'.

 

[Crankyhawk]

That's what they are upset about after what the WI just served up? Really?

nah they are just ripping into the team, and how there is apparently zero players that can bat in all the nations, and ripping into supporters who think "sack the captain/ sack this player/ that player" and calling for them to accept that they are shit and to only play the bangladesh, afghanistan of the world, and have less bowler friendly pitches

 

[revo333]

Unfortunately it’s way beyond getting the old boys in to rally the troops. Due to the nature of the West Indies ie. a conglomeration of island nations and changes in revenue streams with changes in society, they are all on the wrong side of these. I would love to suggest it’s just a cyclical thing but it’s not.

It's a political mess.

 

[PhatBoy]

Unfortunately it’s way beyond getting the old boys in to rally the troops. Due to the nature of the West Indies ie. a conglomeration of island nations and changes in revenue streams with changes in society, they are all on the wrong side of these. I would love to suggest it’s just a cyclical thing but it’s not.

Definitely not cyclical.

But selection policies have a huge huge impact on it

 

[Grumpyshades]

decided not to watch last night and slept in

still in shock..good day for Starc and Boland
bad day for world cricket and WI

 

[sr36]

Ben Stokes has gone out to two blokes in test cricket more than any other: Ravi Ashwin, and Nathan Lyon. 4 of the top 5 wicket takers against him are spinners. Joe Root has a blatant vulnerability to Cummins and Hazlewood, but Lyon's also gotten him 8 times. If you go through the English middle order - Pope down - they have all had massive issues with Ashwin and Lyon over their careers.

To some extent, this comes courtesy of having played against them quite a bit; you're gonna get repeat wickets against someone you play against a lot. But it's a commonly understood thing within international cricket that just coming to Australia and playing without a spinner means your quicks are gonna get tired. England's successful tour of Australia - the only successful Ashes tour that resulted in the away side's victory - was borne from two things: an inability for Australia to get Alastair Cook out, and them rotating their bowlers to give the quicks who needed it a rest. India just fell here because their centrepiece wasn't fit for the entire series and they couldn't reliably use Jadeja and Ashwin/Sundar to soak up deliveries.

England are going to come after him, purely to put overs into the quicks early. Including Boland instead leaves us looking exceedingly one paced. Lyon has made a habit throughout his career of pulling a rabbit out of the hat when people thought he was done.

I also question whether or not Lyon's form has been down all that much. He's barely had to bowl; games have been over well before day 5, and he's barely seemed to be needed. One of the downsides of fielding an all time pace quartet is that your spinner regardless of quality is going to only get the third or fourth look at the bats.

We'll see, I guess.

I think it comes down to conditions and also whether Green is bowling well. If condiitons are like last summer - I wouldn't play either Lyon or a 4th seamer. Strengthen the batting by bringing McSweeney into the middle order and go with an attack of 3 seamers, Green, Webster and then if necessary some part time spin from Mcsweeney, Head or Webster.

 

[PhatBoy]

nah they are just ripping into the team, and how there is apparently zero players that can bat in all the nations, and ripping into supporters who think "sack the captain/ sack this player/ that player" and calling for them to accept that they are shit and to only play the bangladesh, afghanistan of the world, and have less bowler friendly pitches

The home fans are a strange bunch in many respects.

I watch a series like that and my first thought is immediately - I mean obviously I’m shattered by the batting - but it is ‘f**ken hell, we REALLY have something here with the ball. Let’s find SOMETHING with the bat because we have a sniff of being able to compete.’

Bowlers are what make teams competitive. Not batsmen. We have bowlers. This entire series, dire as it has been, should be a catalyst not a death knell

 

[davidgoes4wce]

'There were two teams out there today, unfortunately only one was playing cricket'.

Players batting in grade cricket in Australia would have been a better contest to the Aussie quicks today. Yes I understood Starc and Boland bowled well. But the defensive technique in seeing off the new ball, was truly exposed by a brittle batting lineup offering no whimper.

 

[Tugga27]

How did Cameron Green go today?

Where were you yesterday?

 

[Crankyhawk]

The home fans are a strange bunch in many respects.

I watch a series like that and my first thought is immediately - I mean obviously I’m shattered by the batting - but it is ‘f**ken hell, we REALLY have something here with the ball. Let’s find SOMETHING with the bat because we have a sniff of being able to compete.’

Bowlers are what make teams competitive. Not batsmen. We have bowlers. This entire series, dire as it has been, should be a catalyst not a death knell

I have to assume that yourself and the guy hosting the podcast are much more knowledgable about the state of WI cricket than I am, and he is not seeing a path to recovery for the batsmen. Says that the players who have just failed were getting reasonable averages (40s) in their first class,, you'd think that they are facing their own class bowlers so maybe there was juicing up of the test pitches to lean into the strengths

I was hopeful that WI would get a 100-150 in the 4th innings and maybe more with the sunlight session...

 

[Cmarsh]

Players batting in grade cricket in Australia would have been a better contest to the Aussie quicks today. Yes I understood Starc and Boland bowled well. But the defensive technique in seeing off the new ball, was truly exposed by a brittle batting lineup offering no whimper.

Grade cricketers would have shown a fist to Starc and Boland with a new ball? Seen some bizarre takes on this board but geez...

 

[Cmarsh]

How did Cameron Green go today?

Top scored for Australia. I suggest you use www.google.com to look it up.

 

[benbrown]

Good mornings work,hope we can rotate Boland in for an ashes test just to keep the pressure on and refresh the bowlers

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Good mornings work,hope we can rotate Boland in for an ashes test just to keep the pressure on and refresh the bowlers

He'll play Melbourne at least. There won't be too much resting in the Ashes players have a long break leading in