Rumour Bluemour Discussion XXXVIII

[Aphrodite]

#BUMP from February


Re: 'Alleged' rumours resurfacing ...

Folks, this is the way things are here.

Posters are responsible for what they post. Moderators can not attest to the accuracy or otherwise of any rumour posted.

Moderators will intervene for a couple of reasons.

1. If a thread is threatening to be derailed because of a post.

2. If invested parties request the removal of material.

None of this draws a conclusion as to the accuracy or otherwise of the original post.

There is no need to further speculate. What will be will be.

Also, you need to remember that this thread like all parts of this forum is bound by the rules of poster conduct. If you want to express skepticism towards a rumour that's fine, but having a crack at posters who are contributors to this forum is simply not on and will be acted upon.

Simply put, don't be a dick.

Thanks all!

 

[Flaggers22]

If anything NOT reacting until after the season is the more mature and professional response. Considered and measured is what we need more than anything.

It's a selfish decision. The board wants to dispel the notion that they're prone to knee jerk decisions.

If you know you have the wrong person there's no reason to delay the decision. What information could they have gathered in the last 5 weeks that they didn't have?

Here are some downsides to delaying the call, as I see it:

• There'll be player discontent regardless of the decision - as some players will be be pro Voss and others anti-Voss. Delaying the decision just prolongs the uncertainty, which invariably leads to increased stress and anxiety.
• Selecting from n pool is less desirable than n + 1. Put simply, Melbourne now have an opportunity to beat us to the best candidate.
• Leading candidates will likely evaluate the list and start to formulate a concept of a game plan, if there is a vacancy. The sooner we act, the sooner we draw the attention of the most conscientious and motivated candidates. The more time they have to analyse the situation the better, and I'm not sure we'd garner the same attention without a vacancy.
• It's unethical. I don't think Michael Voss is a talented head coach, but I do admire and respect him as a person. I don't think it's right to string him along. If I were in Priestley's shoes I wouldn't have opted for a middle ground. I'd either guarantee he'd fulfil his contract or sack him. It would've instantly dispelled all uncertainty.
• We are currently prisoners to Voss' biases. If we envisage that we'll be changing training methods, game style or even selection preferences, what is the point in reinforcing those methods for another 8 weeks?

 

[swuzzlebubble]

He's being groomed to take over from Ross at the Aints.

Would be very surprised to see him here.

Nothing formal so he's fair game

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Are you open to Goodwin Aphrodite?
I wouldn't think there'd be too many keen on him to be honest.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

He's being groomed to take over from Ross at the Aints.

Would be very surprised to see him here.

Really? Ross is about to reap the benefits of a nice young list he's helped build, he's looking very comfortable. Since when is he prepping to leave?

 

[Blue__Balls]

He's being groomed to take over from Ross at the Aints.

Would be very surprised to see him here.

Question will be...when does Ross want to give it away?

If Melbourne or Carlton approach him this year, and he feels he's ready - he'd be silly to knock back that opportunity in the hopes that Lyon pulls up stumps soon.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Question will be...when does Ross want to give it away?

If Melbourne or Carlton approach him this year, and he feels he's ready - he'd be silly to knock back that opportunity in the hopes that Lyon pulls up stumps soon.

Also depends on which list he'd prefer to coach. He may not rate the Saints, but happy to ride it out and take over unless/until something more appealing comes along.

 

[bluesDeluxe]

He’s been observing, and likely heavily involved - but as I’m sure we both know he officially takes his position on Aug 15.

Cook would want to get his hands dirty and have a coach sacking on his resume just before he retires off onto the sunset..

 

[Aphrodite]

Wasn't there a report/rumour earlier in the year that Saints had set up a succession plan so when Ross leaves Enright would become head coach?

Sure was:-

Shock Saints ‘handover’ plan: Hall of Fame player reportedly ‘earmarked’ to replace Lyon

Shock Saints ‘handover’ plan: Hall of Fame player reportedly ‘earmarked’ to replace Lyon

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[carlton_99]

Sure was:-

Shock Saints ‘handover’ plan: Hall of Fame player reportedly ‘earmarked’ to replace Lyon

Shock Saints ‘handover’ plan: Hall of Fame player reportedly ‘earmarked’ to replace Lyon

www.foxsports.com.au

Yeh just deleted my post as I saw someone else had mentioned it above.

 

[Blue Pulse]

I'll say this - what I do like from Melbourne is that they made this move after a big win. Yeah, it was against WC, so it doesn't really count. But at least at surface level it looks less like a reactive "rahr, we lost, sack the coach!" decision.

Hopefully he had the chance to enjoy a win with the players, and go out on something approaching a positive note, as opposed to their whole weekend being doom and gloom after a loss.

Double edge sword I feel. As a coach if he got sacked after the STK debacle, he would probably feel that he had it coming.

The next week they responded and won well and he will feel quite happy about the response. Nek minute

 

[Blue__Balls]

It's a selfish decision. The board wants to dispel the notion that they're prone to knee jerk decisions.

If you know you have the wrong person there's no reason to delay the decision. What information could they have gathered in the last 5 weeks that they didn't have?

Here are some downsides to delaying the call, as I see it:

• There'll be player discontent regardless of the decision - as some players will be be pro Voss and others anti-Voss. Delaying the decision just prolongs the uncertainty, which invariably leads to increased stress and anxiety.
• Selecting from n pool is less desirable than n + 1. Put simply, Melbourne now have an opportunity to beat us to the best candidate.
• Leading candidates will likely evaluate the list and start to formulate a concept of a game plan, if there is a vacancy. The sooner we act, the sooner we draw the attention of the most conscientious and motivated candidates. The more time they have to analyse the situation the better, and I'm not sure we'd garner the same attention without a vacancy.
• It's unethical. I don't think Michael Voss is a talented head coach, but I do admire and respect him as a person. I don't think it's right to string him along. If I were in Priestley's shoes I wouldn't have opted for a middle ground. I'd either guarantee he'd fulfil his contract or sack him. It would've instantly dispelled all uncertainty.
• We are currently prisoners to Vossy biases. If we envisage that we'll be changing training methods, game style or even selection preferences, what is the point in reinforcing those methods for another 8 weeks?

1. If there's player discontent regardless, then it's neither a point for or against.

2. Sacking Voss a fortnight before Melbourne sack Goodwin wouldn't prevent them from beating us to our preferred candidate anyway. Almost all of the good candidates are tied up in roles at other clubs, many still in the hunt for finals, any approaches made would be through their managers rather than an exhaustive interview process.

3. Those conscientious and motivated candidates will very likely be paying close attention to Carlton anyway, given they are conscientious and motivated and we're strongly rumoured to be about to sack our coach as soon as the season ends.

4. Having Voss see out his contract (which mind you, runs til the end of next year) is not "unethical". If anything, it's the opposite - he's being allowed to ply his trade until the season is done, at which point the club will be in a position to make their decision known.

5. Quite clearly not the case, and you can tell by watching the games. We are trying new things, we are moving players around, we are playing kids - Vossy isn't refusing to budge on what he was doing early in the season, there are simply limitations on just how much you can change once you're in the routine of "prep, play, recover".

 

[DangerousD]

He's being groomed to take over from Ross at the Aints.

Would be very surprised to see him here.

I wouldn’t be so sure, until something is announced in terms of a succession plan, I wouldn’t be hanging my hat on that, I haven’t seen Ross give any indication of a desire to step down.


Unless he thought he wasn’t ready, id assume he would put his hand up for vacant jobs, you never know how far the next one is away.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Yeh just deleted my post as I saw someone else had mentioned it above.

The thing is an article like that probably comes out because his manager is getting his name out there.

 

[CJMB]

Was anything said that was different from like 5+ years ago? It's been known he can't remember his career for years.

I know there's been 'talk' for while but to the best of my knowledge it was never voluntarily self-declared like this.

 

[CJMB]

My response was in context of 'what players at Carlton saw' - not what the Club decided to do strategically- which was (basically) and each way bet on making finals and building for the future...

as a senior player I would have been pizzd orf- because I want a flag and an easier job to do every week - not be a baby sitter to developing high school kids AND seeing the starting team's capability diminished not improved...

You got to understand the mindset of the playing group and how they would 'parse' the Club's moves from their perspective.
Players have their wishes , Club has its strategy and supporters have their expectations. Not all three things are in alignment at all times - and then you toss in the vagaries of bad luck with injuries and things can compound negatively - very quickly.

Wright's job as CEO is to get all stakeholders aligned - that is the real issue he is dealing with. Aligning players, Club and supporters is what builds unity and common direction.

In the context of a dysfunctional coaching regime (whatever is dysfunctional about it ) this adds enormous pressure on the whole equation. Some players will genuinely like Voss others wont - sorting out the player portfolio will be a secondary matter- fortunately Carlton holds the cards in terms of contracts for all the costly ones. Best case scenario is new coach appointment makes all teh players feel good and pressure is released.

but any neww coach will have to be able to sell the idea that teh older players arent going to nbe baby sitting - that finals or nbetter is a real thing because a,b,c, and d...

oh yeah, 100%. The dysfunction and disbelief would be significant. At the same time, see the forest from the trees and all that.

I guess my post was more of an exploration of how much worse we could be right now if we took the other path - all in on the senior players and trying to get a flag right now - for all those players to have the same 2025 seasons as they did. Which is a bleak thought, even compared to where we are now...

 

[Blue Pulse]

Ross would be in agreeance of a succession plan as much as Clarkson was.

If Enright is considering a move to us, (in the current pickle the club is in) I would assume the only reason he would contemplate the move is if Bartel has been given a handshake move to HOF

 

[tarczonandjane]

Simon “get me some of the good gear” Goodwin. That’s how I will always remember him.

It’s a no from me… and I would imagine plenty of others too.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Really? Ross is about to reap the benefits of a nice young list he's helped build, he's looking very comfortable. Since when is he prepping to leave?

Ross is about to lose NWM according to C4. That young list build goes up in smoke if he walks

 

[GoBlues!]

I've heard from a mate with good connections at another AFL club that Corey Enright will be coaching at our club next year. Not sure of the validity or what coaching role - just feeding the information heard.

Maybe getting Bartel and Enright over to the club is Brian Cook’s farewell gift?

 

[bradfisher14]

Ross is about to lose NWM according to C4. That young list build goes up in smoke if he walks

So you reckon Saints turf Ross and appoint Enright if NWM goes?

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

enright stuff reads more of a public circus manipulation to keep him there and keep him engaged.

Dunno why he'd leave for Carlton though. Unless we have someone for him to learn off or greater opportunity...?

 

[ESKIE]

Simon “get me some of the good gear” Goodwin. That’s how I will always remember him.

It’s a no from me… and I would imagine plenty of others too.

Goody good gear !

 

[Bluebag13]

You don’t think that staff would be flying if they won a game… ebbs and flows of sport. I would find it difficult to believe how staff wouldn’t get caught up.

Well in a way they shouldn't.
Coops93 summed int up pretty well. That's the difference between high performance industry and supporters like us

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Ross would be in agreeance of a succession plan as much as Clarkson was.

If Enright is considering a move to us, (in the current pickle the club is in) I would assume the only reason he would contemplate the move is if Bartel has been given a handshake move to HOF

Agree - Bartel and Cook connection.

They'd know if Enright has the right stuff to coach a big club on a mini-re-build.

 

[Coona Blues]

I've heard from a mate with good connections at another AFL club that Corey Enright will be coaching at our club next year. Not sure of the validity or what coaching role - just feeding the information heard.

Enright is one of a handful of highly regarded young coaching prospects. I don’t have inside info to clubs’ info, I couldn’t begin to assess one candidate over another, but if our current and perhaps future brains trust have him duly assessed and chosen, I would certainly get right behind it.