List Mgmt. 2025 List Management discussion - part 2

[SaintsofSteel]

Agree, we look a completely different club to 4 weeks ago.
New sponsors coming onboard, great media coverage and positives vibes all round.
Where we were in April now looks a completely different picture.
We have positive momentum now and the club needs to adapt to this position we are in.
If we start dropping players now we could lose all that positivity and it could turn bad as quickly as it turned good.

Agree we do look a different club now! It has been a team effort but losing Nas who is the latest darling of the football world would be a HUGE HIT for the club.

Unless of course we can convince a player like Butters to come to the Saints, which by our all accounts is unlikely.

The flow on affect of losing Nas will put a dent in ongoing attendances, membership sales and possibly attracting other players.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just doing some reading on the pre season draft. I don’t think nas can refuse medical sat other clubs because the afl would consider that draft tampering. So I doubt any club can just walk him to the draft. He can choose to sit out for 12 months but that would cost him 1.4 mil. Also I would destroy Ben Williams reputations. Or am I dreaming?

There is no way in hell Nas would choose to sit out of the game for a month, let alone a year.

 

[BrutThough]

Darren Parkin (works at SEN) on this weeks Unplugged podcast is still hearing positive things about Nas staying. Believed it was questionable the past fews weeks but the tide has turned more positive towards him staying the past few days.

Hopefully there is something in this.

 

[Tom12]

There's just no scenario in which we can gift him to port for cents on the dollar.

If we lose him to the psd for nothing because they won't pay fair value (3 picks with two firsts + a real player as an example) then that's the risk we have to take.

If he doesn't want to go to the psd - sign for 2 more and we'll try figure it out in a few years time.

Club has to be as strong as we've ever been.

 

[Sully111]

My point is that improvement is not always linear. Sometimes you have to go backwards to go forwards.

I will admit that if we’re in the same position this time next year, that will be a concern. But I’m not actually surprised about where we are this year.

My issue is that we've looked like a shambles on field quite often.

It get's forgotten in the glow of the Melbourne win and young players improving but we have been TERRIBLE at times this year.

I want to see a huge focus on skills this preseason.

If we don't turn it around next season I hope they hand the keys to Enright. Let him bring in assistants of his choice etc.

 

[phantom13]

There's just no scenario in which we can gift him to port for cents on the dollar.

If we lose him to the psd for nothing because they won't pay fair value (3 picks with two firsts + a real player as an example) then that's the risk we have to take.

If he doesn't want to go to the psd - sign for 2 more and we'll try figure it out in a few years time.

Club has to be as strong as we've ever been.

Its a bit dependent on the group of players and picks.

Bergman probably means 1 first.

Berry should mean 2 firsts. (I doubt we ever get 3 picks in this unless were giving some back).

Cents on the dollar is debateable, we should be firm but we also shouldnt be assholes who refuse whats seen as a decent offer just because we can.

The reality is if he asks to leave it almost certainly gets done, we should push for value but theres a line where we arent helping ourselves and we risk the PSD thing.

Its Ports problem until they make it ours.

 

[beside the seaside]

If players want to leave and no one wants to come isn't that more on the coaches and senior players than the list manager?

SOS's job with Nas is not only to convince him dollars wise but to show Williams we won't take a crap deal. If we are going to give up arguably the best young player in the comp then we need a HUGE return. The Port people claiming otherwise need to be laughed out of the room by SOS.

 

[St Neil]

It's also on the player managers discussing potential moves without regard for how a trade gets done.

The top player managers do this. They talk to the clubs and gauge if and how a deal gets done. Only then does their client nominate a club in a trade.

If Williams hasn’t done this then he is negligent and incompetent. Presumably he has, which is why he has requested St Kilda to present terms for a 2 year contract.

This tells us that NWM has a likely preference to return to SA but that Williams understands that a deal is unlikely.

However the 2 year deal is aimed at keeping all options open in case a SA club cracks and decides to liquidate assets that can facilitate a trade.

I can’t see NWM nominating another club if a deal is unlikely or is so unsatisfactory to St Kilda that it would elicit anger and disgust among the football community, or even worse, from St Kilda itself. That’s bad and risky business.

That would significantly tarnish NWM’s brand for a long time to come. Not even Williams would be stupid enough to do that.

But the short term deal provides flexibility and means NWM can get home relatively soon if he wants, possibly even early within 1 year.

 

[akaifu]

 

[Saints TV]

Darren Parkin (works at SEN) on this weeks Unplugged podcast is still hearing positive things about Nas staying. Believed it was questionable the past fews weeks but the tide has turned more positive towards him staying the past few days.

Hopefully there is something in this.

 

[BrutThough]

The top player managers do this. They talk to the clubs and gauge if and how a deal gets done. Only then does their client nominate a club in a trade.

If Williams hasn’t done this then he is negligent and incompetent. Presumably he has, which is why he has requested St Kilda to present terms for a 2 year contract.

This tells us that NWM has a likely preference to return to SA but that Williams understands that a deal is unlikely.

However the 2 year deal is aimed at keeping all options open in case a SA club cracks and decides to liquidate assets that can facilitate a trade.

I can’t see NWM nominating another club if a deal is unlikely or is so unsatisfactory to St Kilda that it would elicit anger and disgust among the football community, or even worse, from St Kilda itself. That’s bad and risky business.

That would significantly tarnish NWM’s brand for a long time to come. Not even Williams would be stupid enough to do that.

But the short term deal provides flexibility and means NWM can get home relatively soon if he wants, possibly even early within 1 year.

I genuinely believe if Paul Conners was his manager, a deal would already be done because of the difficulties both SA clubs have in getting a deal one. One of those 2 years + a trigger for 7 type contracts that many of his clients have signed.

 

[Tom12]

Its a bit dependent on the group of players and picks.

Bergman probably means 1 first.

Berry should mean 2 firsts. (I doubt we ever get 3 picks in this unless were giving some back).

Cents on the dollar is debateable, we should be firm but we also shouldnt be assholes who refuse whats seen as a decent offer just because we can.

The reality is if he asks to leave it almost certainly gets done, we should push for value but theres a line where we arent helping ourselves and we risk the PSD thing.

Its Ports problem until they make it ours.

Possibly, also depends on what first - as we know they're very mixed in terms of value in their own right.

I agree with what you're saying, we don't want to turn down what we know is a good offer but they shouldn't be holding back on what they're able to give us.

If they haven't stacked assets to make a deal like this possible that's absolutely on them.

That's why this revolves around Butters, I don't see the club taking Bergman and a first.

 

[sauce_head]

There's just no scenario in which we can gift him to port for cents on the dollar.

If we lose him to the psd for nothing because they won't pay fair value (3 picks with two firsts + a real player as an example) then that's the risk we have to take.

If he doesn't want to go to the psd - sign for 2 more and we'll try figure it out in a few years time.

Club has to be as strong as we've ever been.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but Luke Ball strong?

We need to finish below Port to make any of this realistic. We probably won’t.

 

[botts]

Darren Parkin (works at SEN) on this weeks Unplugged podcast is still hearing positive things about Nas staying. Believed it was questionable the past fews weeks but the tide has turned more positive towards him staying the past few days.

Hopefully there is something in this.

If you could post this that would be great. Also would take it in IV form to hook straight to my veins

 

[stavro#4]

The top player managers do this. They talk to the clubs and gauge if and how a deal gets done. Only then does their client nominate a club in a trade.

If Williams hasn’t done this then he is negligent and incompetent. Presumably he has, which is why he has requested St Kilda to present terms for a 2 year contract.

This tells us that NWM has a likely preference to return to SA but that Williams understands that a deal is unlikely.

However the 2 year deal is aimed at keeping all options open in case a SA club cracks and decides to liquidate assets that can facilitate a trade.

I can’t see NWM nominating another club if a deal is unlikely or is so unsatisfactory to St Kilda that it would elicit anger and disgust among the football community, or even worse, from St Kilda itself. That’s bad and risky business.

That would significantly tarnish NWM’s brand for a long time to come. Not even Williams would be stupid enough to do that.

But the short term deal provides flexibility and means NWM can get home relatively soon if he wants, possibly even early within 1 year.

The club still hasn’t been approached by any party to gauge what it will take to get a trade done.

So if Williams is checking the appetite of both SA clubs. He better be starting from a high value.

 

[Tom12]

I don’t necessarily disagree, but Luke Ball strong?

We need to finish below Port to make any of this realistic. We probably won’t.

That's potentially a big issue.

 

[bwardi]

Darren Parkin, giving us a bump of copium to get me through the day. Just need some pure heroin from Tony74 and I'll be set for the next week.

 

[stavro#4]

Last 48 hours, confidence quietly growing at the club.

Darren Parkin (works at SEN) on this weeks Unplugged podcast is still hearing positive things about Nas staying. Believed it was questionable the past fews weeks but the tide has turned more positive towards him staying the past few days.

Hopefully there is something in this.

 

[St Neil]

And when he secures Nas over 2m a season for 7 to 10 years his rep will be as a God with the players. If he has the players he couldn't care less if the clubs hate him.

What about his players who are not stars?

Those who are on the fringes but may desperately want a short term deal to stay on a club list and to keep their dream alive?

If clubs hate their manager, and it’s a line ball decision, the human element naturally kicks in.

Player managers, with poor reputations among the clubs, can be detrimental to those players who can be generously described as good ordinary players.

That’s why the powerful and successful long term player managers have strong working relationships with ALL of the clubs. They get stuff done without causing angst or anger. And they do it with transparency and pragmatism.

The majority of their clients are not stars of the competition.

 

[BrutThough]

If you could post this that would be great. Also would take it in IV form to hook straight to my veins

From the min 30 mark.

 

[akaifu]

On vibes Nas is still staying

 

[SainterEire]

Gentle reminder

 

[The Punter]

In which case, they have no assets.

I just think it's worth pointing out the system puts a team in our situation at a clear disadvantage should Nas decide to leave.

 

[Yawkey way]

Its a bit dependent on the group of players and picks.

Bergman probably means 1 first.

Berry should mean 2 firsts. (I doubt we ever get 3 picks in this unless were giving some back).

Cents on the dollar is debateable, we should be firm but we also shouldnt be assholes who refuse whats seen as a decent offer just because we can.

The reality is if he asks to leave it almost certainly gets done, we should push for value but theres a line where we arent helping ourselves and we risk the PSD thing.

Its Ports problem until they make it ours.

This imo is very close to how it will play out.

If we wind up in mediation it’s going to be very hard to argue that Bergman and a future 1st isn’t fair compensation. Bergman was sought after, has been in good form and importantly is signed for two more years.

Opinion will flip very quickly to two very good young players who want to return home plus a first to the saints to balance it out. We know we’re getting robbed blind but if it looks even half reasonable the afl will sign off on it.

We’ll be left with two choices, take nothing and force Nas into the draft, that’s just a hollow threat imo. Option two is take what you can get and buy some soothing lotion.

 

[Yawkey way]

View attachment 2388270

Gentle reminder

Nothings done until the contract is signed.