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Roast St Kilda in no mans land - Part 2

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Interestingly, I went to ChatGPT and asked whether there were any teams around the world that were successful by concentrating a large portion of the salary cap on a few players.

Answer:

Yes, concentrated spending on a few stars has led to success, but only when:


  • Those stars are truly elite (top 5 in the league)
  • The team manages the rest of the cap with great efficiency (draft picks, bargain contracts)
  • There is creative cap management and a strong front office

It’s not a guaranteed formula and is very hard to sustain long-term—most dynasties eventually break down due to salary constraints.


Now, from my perspective, NWM is elite. TDK not. May be a good player but also likely that his salary and recruitment will push out Marshall. I thought it totally unviable when Carlton a few years ago paid 2 half back flankers $800k (huge amount at the time) and I think the same with TDK being paid around $1.7m (reportedly). I can't see how they can make it work but then again, I'm not a list manager nor CFO nor someone who understands the intimate details of their vision.

Good luck to the Saints.

For those interested, here are some examples the engine listed as part of its response...

Below are some notable examples across different major sports leagues:




🏈 NFL (National Football League) – Hard Cap


Example: 2010s Indianapolis Colts with Andrew Luck


  • Strategy: In Luck’s rookie years (2012–2015), the Colts took advantage of his cheap rookie contract to pay other stars. But as he neared a mega-extension, the team started allocating a huge portion to Luck and T.Y. Hilton, with less depth elsewhere.
  • Result: Some playoff success, but lack of depth on both lines and injuries led to long-term underperformance.

Example: 2020s Kansas City Chiefs


  • Patrick Mahomes’ $500M Contract (2020–2031): A huge portion of the cap goes to Mahomes.
  • Strategy: Chiefs structured the deal flexibly (low early cap hits) and cycled through cheaper supporting casts.
  • Result: Despite some talent losses (e.g., Tyreek Hill), they won the Super Bowl in 2022 and 2023 thanks to Mahomes, coaching, and strong drafting.
  • Takeaway: They're an outlier—extremely high performance from a few stars can cover for low-cost players.



🏀 NBA (National Basketball Association) – Soft Cap with Luxury Tax


Example: 2010–2014 Miami Heat (LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh)


  • Strategy: Big Three took slightly less than max to fit under the cap. Role players (e.g., Shane Battier, Mike Miller) signed for less.
  • Result: 4 straight Finals, 2 championships.
  • Takeaway: Success possible with top-heavy salary structure, but required stars sacrificing some money and strong recruitment of ring-chasers.

Example: 2016–2019 Golden State Warriors


  • Kevin Durant joined existing stars (Curry, Thompson, Green)
  • Strategy: Durant took less than the max, Steph was underpaid due to earlier ankle injuries, allowing cap flexibility.
  • Result: Dominant run with multiple championships.
  • Takeaway: Required unique circumstances (cap spike + undervalued star), but it was a successful top-heavy team.



🏒 NHL (National Hockey League) – Hard Cap


Example: 2015–2020 Chicago Blackhawks


  • Stars: Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane eventually took up massive cap space (over $10M each).
  • Strategy: Paid stars a ton, constantly cycled cheap depth around them.
  • Result: Won Cups before the big contracts; afterward, became harder to keep depth.
  • Takeaway: Once the stars were paid big, success declined due to loss of supporting cast.



⚽ MLS (Major League Soccer) – Salary Cap + Designated Player Rule


  • Allows teams to pay 3 "Designated Players" (e.g., Messi, Beckham) any amount, with only a limited charge on the cap.
  • Example: LA Galaxy (Beckham era), Inter Miami (Messi, Busquets, Alba)
  • Strategy: Load on a few world-class players, surround with budget role players.
  • Result: Mixed success – works if the stars are transformative (like Messi), but depth still matters.
 
NWM - 2m
TDK 1.7m - UNKNOWN
JSOS 900k - UNKNOWN
Aleer - ? - UNKNOWN may not even come
Flanders - ? - UNKNOWN may not even come
Ryan - ? -UNKNOWN may not even come


With the Saintsflation rampant, how will the club contain it's cap?

Maybe NWM had told them two years, then I'm out.

Maybe Marshall is one the move, saving some money.

Fixed.

You nuffies believe everything you see in the media don't you?
 
Fixed.

You nuffies believe everything you see in the media don't you?

Would be great if clubs were forced to publish salaries.

Saints are only capable of luring players by paying overs.

That's not really being a destination club.
 

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Would be great if clubs were forced to publish salaries.

Saints are only capable of luring players by paying overs.

That's not really being a destination club.

You don't just become a destination club. At a footy level players are attracted by list potential, success, coaching group, facilities. At a lifestyle level it is about location, culture and amenity.

Saints tick off location and amenity - many players live Bayside and want to live there. Facilities are now up to AFL standard and in fact Moorabbin is one of the nicest training grounds, coaching group I think is a selling point to some.

Have to improve success and culture. And to do that they need to get talent in. And to do that they have to pay overs as a first step.

It can go the other way pretty quickly too. Look at Carlton and Essendon. Were destination clubs in the 90s and early 00s and now players just want to get out of them and probably the most on the nose clubs in the AFL in terms of player attraction.

IF Saints get it right (success and culture) over next 5 years - and it is a pretty big "if" going on past history, they could comfortably become a destination club because their facilities and location are very attractive.
 
You don't just become a destination club. At a footy level players are attracted by list potential, success, coaching group, facilities. At a lifestyle level it is about location, culture and amenity.

Saints tick off location and amenity - many players live Bayside and want to live there. Facilities are now up to AFL standard and in fact Moorabbin is one of the nicest training grounds, coaching group I think is a selling point to some.

Have to improve success and culture. And to do that they need to get talent in. And to do that they have to pay overs as a first step.

It can go the other way pretty quickly too. Look at Carlton and Essendon. Were destination clubs in the 90s and early 00s and now players just want to get out of them and probably the most on the nose clubs in the AFL in terms of player attraction.

IF Saints get it right (success and culture) over next 5 years - and it is a pretty big "if" going on past history, they could comfortably become a destination club because their facilities and location are very attractive.

That's just not true at all of Carlton or Essendon. Despite being terrible on field for 25 years, Carlton have had no trouble attracting and landing talent from other clubs.

Even Essendon a few years back, mired in drugs controversy, had the closest thing to St Kilda's current splurge, bringing in Sheil, Stringer, Smith and Saad.

Geelong is the best example of a club that made itself a destination club. Some massive pork barrelling from successive governments has helped. Also, the AFL does seem willing to turn a blind eye to financial dealings of players, presidents, coaches and sponsors. Not sure why. But you may need some of the HQ indulgence too at some point.
 
Happy Jonah Hill GIF
 
I can understand Geelong getting Bailey Smith. They're in a premiership window and were looking to fill a need in their midfield, hence they recruited a ready made player to have immediate impact in another premiership tilt.

Same with Hawthorn getting Josh Battle and Tom Barrass. Their premiership window had just opened, so they recruited ready made defenders to consolidate their progress.

St Kilda on the other hand have finished outside the top 8 in recent years, so why are they topping up with ready made players on big money? The likes of De Koning, Silvagni and Aleer are quite expensive in terms of salary cap space.

Part of the answer could be St Kilda's underperformance in recent years relative to other sides who went through rebuilds at the same time, while the other reason could be Ross Lyon trying to save his own bacon.

What do you think? Why are St Kilda topping up?
 
I can understand Geelong getting Bailey Smith. They're in a premiership window and were looking to fill a need in their midfield, hence they recruited a ready made player to have immediate impact in another premiership tilt.

Same with Hawthorn getting Josh Battle and Tom Barrass. Their premiership window had just opened, so they recruited ready made defenders to consolidate their progress.

St Kilda on the other hand have finished outside the top 8 in recent years, so why are they topping up with ready made players on big money? The likes of De Koning, Silvagni and Aleer are quite expensive in terms of salary cap space.

Part of the answer could be St Kilda's underperformance in recent years relative to other sides who went through rebuilds at the same time, while the other reason could be Ross Lyon trying to save his own bacon.

What do you think? Why are St Kilda topping up?
I think because they have to coin to do so. They are paying overs for Silvagni though if you ask me.
 

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You've got to get good players to your club somehow.

If Free Agents keep selecting the 'big clubs', and top teams are getting access to the same quality of kids in the Draft as the bottom teams - paying overs for good players seems like their only option really.

I don't know how else they can do it?
 

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We have been underspending our salary cap for such a long time that if we didn't use it, we would be forced to pay way overs for our own players to meet the salary cap spending obligations. That's what we did in the 2010s with our serious overpaying of contracts to Billings, Gresham and Dunstan. In the Age last Saturday, Caroline Wilson reported that we have only paid 83 per cent of the cap this year. I didn't think that was possible, but I imagine it has something to do with frontloading of contracts.

The other things to consider are the fact that this draft is incredibly weak and compromised, and that Tasmania will be in the competition shortly, which is the worst time to be at the bottom. We've also hit the draft in the last few years and have a promising brigade of youngsters in NWM, Owens, Wilson, Phillipou, Hall, Tauru, Windhager (big if), Garcia, Boxshall and Travaglia. With all this in mind, the time to go is now.

TDK and Silvagni are free agents and won't cost us any draft picks. Ryan and Aleer likely won't cost much, though given Ryan is contracted West Coast might play hard ball, but with a fair few Eagles players leaving this draft, I doubt they'd seek to hold him.

Will it work? Who knows. It certainly won't be a good look if Windhager leaves, because the narrative will be, rightly or wrongly, that we are paying overs for external players at the expense of our own. But I think the club has the right approach in being risky because its nearly impossible for a small club without exclusive draft access to win a flag by being conservative.
 
Sometimes coaches know they're in a win now or get fired situation. RTB likely knows he's on relatively thin ice and he's not really a development coach is he
Scott kept trying to top up at North, never helped

League is a shitload weaker than at the time Brad Scott was doing it.

Hawthorn in 24 and Adelaide in 25 have both bounced off a good trade period without recruiting an out and out superstar.

It relies on the players they already have on the list like Nas, King, Tauru, Philippou, Wilson to become the stars of the team.

Worth a try as you are never going to be able to assemble a team fully from the draft now.
 
Worth a try as you are never going to be able to assemble a team fully from the draft now.
The problem is that in years gone by, bottom teams scored the best kids, whilst the top teams got the worst.

The talent gap of lists was bridged reasonably quickly and steadily.

These days, whilst the bottom teams might still get the best kids (sometimes), some of the top teams are getting access to really good kids too - plus Free Agents. So the talent gap isn't being bridged at all.
 
St Kilda topped up at the end of 2020 and that ultimately did not work despite the positive press going their way at the time. There is a similar vibe to this round of top ups with several in the media complimenting the approach. I reckon wait until St Kilda achieve something before singing their praises.
 

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Roast St Kilda in no mans land - Part 2

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