List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[austinnn]

Indeed.
I agree with this.
The fixture is rigged.
Everyone with their hand on a lever knows this.
We can go to the church, or to the temple, or to a beach, whatever….
Unless we find a way to run up that hill, we are cooked. Rather, it is baked into the system.

Then again I don't agree. Again, this is the fatalist mentality: "We can't fight it, we re destined to lose", etc

Without wanting to get too political, I have heard many successful black Americans say that their parents had always told them they had to work twice as hard as the white man to succeed in the USA. I think the same is true of us. We're not "cooked". We just need to work harder to succeed. Bassat knows this, Lyon knows this, and hopefully the players know it too.

Which by the way is why our club should steer well clear of players like JUH and Oliver. Only hard workers need apply.

EDIT: reading your post back, you're actually saying the same thing as me, ("Unless we find a way to run up that hill"), so I agree in the end!

 

[austinnn]

Old mate Pencil Case is expecting a second rounder for Buku Khamis. Poor Blues fans are about to get the Jack Macrae experience.

That pencil case is a few sharp pencils short

 

[CanadianSaint]

Tomorrow.

Your time or my time.... Cause its yesterday here!

 

[Fehring]

Rubbish. We had blokes out injured all over the place at the start of the season and then played 3 of our first, what, 5 games, in Adelaide! What was it, something like 6 of our first 7 games against last year's finalists!

A few soft home games early in the season to get some momentum and belief in young players may well have seen a different mindset and outcome, but we never had a chance to build any momentum.

Then look at the dream draw that Gold Coast had, something like 7 of their first 8 games against teams from the bottom half of the ladder last year! The draw can't get you there, but it can stop you.......

Yes, our injuries are what primarily did us in. We had a finals-worthy best 23 this year, but our list fell off a cliff after that, especially with the tall guys. So, yeah, we had no depth (though a lot of promising youngsters rather than mid-career average players), but we look to have fixed that!

And I think everything that has happened since the Melbourne game guarantees that they won't shunt us to interstate backwaters (sorry interstate Sainters, love you!) at the beginning of next year.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I don't think the JUH thing is going to happen, so this is wasted ink, but if all the right conditions are met and the club is satisfied (HUGE if's) then I'm pretty into it.

St Kilda used to be a club that people left in order to get their shit together. I'd love for us to become the opposite. IF we do take a risk on JUH and he gets his shit together, then it could help cement us as a 'destination' club. Everyone loves a redemption story.

Of course, worst case it could go the other way too. I think it would have to be a short term deal on low pay (I imagine either Bulldogs pay most of it, or they delist him and have pay him out). There would also have to be very stict conditions about training, beahaviour, etc. The leadership group would have to sign off on it (as well as, I imagine, the board) and it would have to be communicated well to the playing group. And if he misses the targets hten he's out and it costs us a list spot for a year.

Honestly, as someone who had my own share of Saturday nights (and Sunday mornings) at Revs in my youth, I think it is a ****ing miracle that ANY 22 year old on $800,000 a year is not out getting on the gear every weekend. It's unprofessional sure, but it's not exactly unusal. What's unusal is Nas being in at the weights room at Morabbin first thing in the morning the day after the Brownlow. If we can maintain that environment and make JUH feel really wecome and at home, who knows? He'll be 24 by the time next season starts and has had a pretty good kick up the backside. Plenty of folks get real loose for a few years in their late teens and early 20s and then pull it together pretty quickly.

I think the party lifestyle issues are not so much the blocker as the company he keeps and his opinion of himself.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

The last two injury affected years have been a blessing in disguise
We wouldn’t have blooded half the young fellas we have. Development has effectively been fast tracked.
Expect players to sit for longer in the vfl next year developing and biding their time. Patience from both players and supporters will be paramount. Can we do it????

 

[ScrappyDo]

I love that with Fly, not letting his players act like losers. No reason we can't be the best in every area. It only takes drive, hardwork and seeing the way you want it to look and acting to achieve it. Geelong were a mess before guys like Costa rebuilt the way they saw themselves.

What? You mean corrupt?

 

[ScrappyDo]

I think we’re trying to hang on to Ro for another year:
1- To see how we go with him and Maxie forward.
2- Obviously as insurance against Maxie going down.
3- As tall cover until Bing enters restricted free agency.

There could be something in that. Ro probably has enough in the tank till Bing is unrestricted, plus Hammer and Keels in the wings.

 

[SaintersUnite]

There could be something in that. Ro probably has enough in the tank till Bing is unrestricted, plus Hammer and Keels in the wings.

We’ve moved past Bing now, he won’t be coming to us. Expect him to join Collingwood or stay at GC.

 

[ScrappyDo]

More convinced than ever that development is much more responsible than picking well at the draft. Our development has been so shithouse for so many years, still not entirely convinced it's much better now.

If draftees can play well within 2 years it's good drafting. Those who take longer but play well is good development.
We've definitely drafted better, l suppose is the Collards and Schoonamonsters we need to watch for development.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Just can't see us going after Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

 

[ScrappyDo]

We’ve moved past Bing now, he won’t be coming to us. Expect him to join Collingwood or stay at GC.

I expect nothing. Bing will make his choices but if he's 28yo and still at GC then Stkilda is a strong option.

 

[Sully111]

Yeah, it's very easy to be this chill, wise, all-knowing guru when everything's going your way. When you're coaching the biggest club in the land, and you've got a good list, a favourable draw, minimal travel, and the press are lining up to give you a blowie, then you can sound wonderfully esoteric. It's been going on at the Pies since the AFL media were all fighting each other to come up with the most flowery description of Malted Milkhouse's "towering" intellect.......

Let's see how slick they look when they're coaching a team that spent 15 years letting the list managers shoot them in the foot, with bugger all supporters, graveyard timeslots for your games, the rough end of the pineapple fixture every year, unable to attract free agents, and heavily in debt for paying off the AFL's biggest asset!

Sound slick, cool and deeply intellectual then............

Glad people are seeing through all-knowing guru Mahat Mcrae. He's always been cringe af to me.

 

[_Maximus_12]

Glad people are seeing through all-knowing guru Mahat Mcrae. He's always been cringe af to me.

Bloke gives me real Diddy vibes.

 

[PJays]

It's much easier to be good at drafting and development if you're getting a steady trickle of out-and-out stars.

Fair point re father-sons (and add Scarlett too), but on Dangerfield and Cameron, without an existing strong team founded on players drafted there, they'd probably be less likely to request a trade.

Also noteworthy how other less heralded players, or those with behavioural issues join Geelong and go on to achieve great things there (Stengle, Smith) which also suggests elite identification, development, culture and coaching.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Old mate Pencil Case is expecting a second rounder for Buku Khamis. Poor Blues fans are about to get the Jack Macrae experience.

You can blame Norf for overpaying for Caleb Daniel.

 

[CaptainRisky]

There could be something in that. Ro probably has enough in the tank till Bing is unrestricted, plus Hammer and Keels in the wings.

You want two kings in the one side ?
Cant you just see the ball rebounding out of our backline

 

[sauce_head]

Your time or my time.... Cause its yesterday here!

https://share.google/d7uvS1ATVZKANkycD

 

[gringo2011]

If we were good enough, we’d have won those games. Had nothing to do with travel

This is partially true. An easy fixture can kick start your momentum that often carries on for the rest of the season. The AFL gave Gold Coast a really easy run in and set them up to play finals this year. If you are a really good side it won't matter but if you are an average to middling side it costs memberships, players and momentum if you start the year badly and often leads into the next year.

 

[gringo2011]

That's why the whining gets on my nerves.

"But I'm entitled to whine because we suck"....

No you're not, that's just being a loser. Suck it up, learn from the mistakes and move on. The past cannot be undone, but it can be a lesson to improve in the future.

The difference between a winner and a loser is not the amount of times they get knocked down, it's the amount of times that they get back up.

If you have structural issues and bad management you'll never move forward either. Acceptance of mediocrity and letting shit operators keep jobs will stop you moving forward.Administrators aren't players. They should operate under pressure. A lot on here were happy with Richo and Trout.

Being constantly negative is no good but blind optimism without structural change is just as bad.

 

[hayes]

You can’t rely on a good fixture to get in the finals because you’ll just be out of it again the year after.

It’s all on Ross next year to come up with a gameplan that stacks up IMO. I look at Hawthorn and while we probably don’t have a Newcombe you’ll never convince me that they have so much more to work with than us, they’re just an extremely well coached team that’s full of belief and not told in every second press conference they’re not good enough. Our midfield is still a work in progress but the Hawks almost made the grand final without one.

 

[ScrappyDo]

You want two kings in the one side ?
Cant you just see the ball rebounding out of our backline

Yeah there is that bit..

 

[True Believer]

If you have structural issues and bad management you'll never move forward either. Acceptance of mediocrity and letting shit operators keep jobs will stop you moving forward.Administrators aren't players. They should operate under pressure. A lot on here were happy with Richo and Trout.

Being constantly negative is no good but blind optimism without structural change is just as bad.

Agree with most of that, but not sure how many were happy with Richo and Trout. I think most tend to be happy with some stuff and unhappy with other stuff. It's probably fair to say most weren't happy with side-talking "G'day Saints fans!" after another flogging by about two-thirds of the way through Richo's tenure......

Both admin and players should be under pressure to perform, but most people's allegiance goes to players, not administrators......

The big rift between the "bedwetters" and the "happy clappers" on here is underpinned, I believe, by revisiting past errors. Ascribing a pattern of behaviour from the past that was the result of actions of a different group of people has nothing to do with the current group, even though we are the same club. It serves no purpose, and it's the one thing personally that I find very frustrating. I don't care what our list management team did 10 years ago, that was a different group of people and a different set of circumstances, as long as the current team don't make obvious mistakes I am happy.

 

[stavro#4]

You can’t rely on a good fixture to get in the finals because you’ll just be out of it again the year after.

It’s all on Ross next year to come up with a gameplan that stacks up IMO. I look at Hawthorn and while we probably don’t have a Newcombe you’ll never convince me that they have so much more to work with than us, they’re just an extremely well coached team that’s full of belief and not told in every second press conference they’re not good enough. Our midfield is still a work in progress but the Hawks almost made the grand final without one.

I posted our stats, but ball in hand - we were much better than people realise. We fell away in the intercept stuff that then leads to easy transition and repeat 50s etc.

Threat Rating: a measure of how often a player’s kicks result in a shot at goal later in the chain compared to expectation

We ranked 8th at 1.69.
Geelong #1#1risbane #6#6awthorn #3#3etention Rating: a measure of how often a player’s kicks are retained by a teammate compared to expectation.

We ranked #3 G#3long #1 B#1sbane #7

#7ntre clearances we ranked #16 #16cruited TDK and looking at mids, Flanders?)
Stoppage clearances #7
W#7also got first possession #5th#5ththe league. But could only turn it into clearance 9th best in the league. Which is on par with league average.

Contested marks #16,#16elong #1 H#1thorn #7

#7tercept marks we ranked #18 #18cruited Aleer JSOS). Geelong #2 B#2sbane#6 Hawthorn. #4

#4oring shot inside 50 45% ranking us 8th
Geelong #1 H#1thorn #5 B#5sbane #11
#11o#11orenches we ranked #13.#13.side in the top 8 is below 8th for this rating.
Geelong #1 B#1sbane #3 H#3thorn #7
T#7s usually means we are launching under pressure as we haven’t won the ball cleanly or high enough up the field - usually via intercept.

Last one, time in forward half. #13
Ge#13ng #1 Bri#1ane#7 Hawthorn#8

 

[hayes]

I posted our stats, but ball in hand - we were much better than people realise. We fell away in the intercept stuff that then leads to easy transition and repeat 50s etc.

Threat Rating: a measure of how often a player’s kicks result in a shot at goal later in the chain compared to expectation

We ranked 8th at 1.69.
Geelong #1#1risbane #6#6awthorn #3#3Retention Rating: a measure of how often a player’s kicks are retained by a teammate compared to expectation.

We ranked #3 G#3long #1 B#1sbane #7

#7ntre clearances we ranked #16 #16cruited TDK and looking at mids, Flanders?)
Stoppage clearances #7
W#7also got first possession #5th#5tht in the league. But could only turn it into clearance 9th best in the league. Which is on par with league average.

Contested marks #16,#16elong #1 H#1thron #7

#7tercept marks we ranked #18 #18ecruited Aleer JSOS). Geelong #2 B#2sbane #6 H#6thorn #4

#4oring shot inside 50 45% ranking us 8th
Geelong #1 H#1thorn #5 B#5sbane #11
#11ore launches we ranked #13.#13 side in the top 8 is below 8th for this rating.
Geelong #1 B#1sbane #3 H#3thorn #7
T#7s usually means we are launching under pressure as we haven’t won the ball cleanly or high enough up the field - usually via intercept.

Last one, time in forward half. #13
Ge#13ng #1 Bri#1ane#7 Hawthorn#8

Our ground ball stuff was very good but we just couldn’t fire a shot in the air particularly up forward. With TDK and a couple of recruits those excuses are gone now so I’m sure Ross will come up with something.