List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part IV

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 4

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[sinkintins]

Well your List Manager will look.like an amateur unserious fool.
The club rushed this and didn't think it through.
Did you honestly think you could trade some shit picks for a contracted keystone player.
You lot made the big announcement then when the rubber meets the road you back off like you have got the upper hand.
This will make you lot the laughing stock of this trade period.

The fact Wilkie hasn't shut this down already would suggest otherwise... you'll never hear the end of it if he requests a trade. (regardless of it being successful or not)

 

[stavro#4]

Mitch Cleary still saying Jack Steele

9

Jack Steele

Age

29

Ht

187cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

8.7

3star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

6.8

5star

CL

3.6

5star

D

21.3

5star

K

10.0

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

16.8

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

11.8

5star

M

2.6

3star

T

6.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

is one to watch on tradies

 

[Verdun]

The fact Wilkie hasn't shut this down already would suggest otherwise... you'll never hear the end of it if he requests a trade. (regardless of it being successful or not)

Why are you here?

 

[Silkie]

Agreed. I get nervous whenever we make one or two players the club mascot if you like. Messiah complex. We did this with Billings, then Gresh. What we need is for the other promising players to take the next step next season and at least spread the hype.

Which reminds me of something Nas said in his speech: the Hype House!

Did it with King too. And by all reports at the moment if there's one guy who can't carry the weight of a club on his shoulders...

 

[BucketsandBanger]

They have drafted really well and after a couple of years of development I can see them stepping up again. Stephen King is going to be in his ear selling the dream. From outside we don't look a lot different on paper. Hopefully Ross Leonard the boys put on the charm.

Maybe but to me King can talk about making finals all he wants doesn’t change the fact they are a mile off it. They have a heap of champions players approaching the end (Gawn, Viney, Lever) or cooked (Oliver, May, Petracca.) Agree they’ve drafted pretty well the last couple of years but there is a huge gap between the players above and the kids, they’re in a similar position to us the last few years with no mid range players in their prime. Losing McVee is a big blow as well.

 

[ratboy94]

How to wet toast get a draft assistant for malpractice? They traded their top pick last year for nothing, now they go crying to AFL?

 

[TassieSaint]

Not directly relevant to us but West Coast getting a first rounder for being shit for 4 years after winning a flag 7 years ago is extremely tough to take as a St Kilda fan. The solution to a compromised draft is not to make it more compromised and give one of the most successful (on and off field) clubs of the AFL era a leg up.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Lol, people prank calling Trade Radio. Someone call up and say "INDIA".

 

[Armoooo]

The fact Wilkie hasn't shut this down already would suggest otherwise... you'll never hear the end of it if he requests a trade. (regardless of it being successful or not)

It'd be very unusual for a player to come out and confirm they turned down an offer from another club.

As for what needs to be "shut down", its almost all just made up nonsense, near baseless speculation and Chinese whispers.

Maybe Cal wants to take the deal.

Maybe he doesnt want to leave but is happy to use the leverage for a pay bump.

Maybe it was just an informal phone call where Cal told Bevo he's flattered but not interested.

If players had to debunk every bigfooty rumour they wouldnt have much free time left.

 

[jumperfan]

Not directly relevant to us but West Coast getting a first rounder for being shit for 4 years after winning a flag 7 years ago is extremely tough to take as a St Kilda fan. The solution to a compromised draft is not to make it more compromised and give one of the most successful (on and off field) clubs of the AFL era a leg up.

They've been screwed over by the Academy/FS bullshit more than most other clubs. I think it's fine tbh. The pick will end up being in the mid 20s in a meh draft anyway.

 

[Joffaboy]

Bulldogs supporters having a real crack at us on the draft forum re Wilkie pleased they can get some definition relevancy........not worth taking the bait.

If you do they get their mod to ban you. Soft as butter that unserious club is. And their supporters.

 

[heynow85]

 

[Joffaboy]

The fact Wilkie hasn't shut this down already would suggest otherwise... you'll never hear the end of it if he requests a trade. (regardless of it being successful or not)

Shut it down the day it was offered a month ago.

 

[Diehard Saint]

WC assistance package has been approved. End of 1st round pick and 4 extra list spots.

What a farce....

4 extra list spots - surely not more salary cap though?

What a crock.
Won a premiership less than a decade ago.

 

[Hayes4PM]

 

[Sarcoidevo]

My god 20+ pages ... all on Wilkie ...... who is extremely unlikely to be traded

You campaigners just cant help yourselves

 

[Diehard Saint]

Mitch Cleary still saying Jack Steele is one to watch on tradies

Out of the three, this is the one which would make the most sense for us even if it nets us the least in return.

 

[Mat Mann]

Mitch Cleary still saying Jack Steele is one to watch on tradies

I think if we get Flanders, he's gone

 

[Train12]

Dogs left holding their ……

May still available pugs

 

[TassieSaint]

They've been screwed over by the Academy/FS bullshit more than most other clubs. I think it's fine tbh. The pick will end up being in the mid 20s in a meh draft anyway.

It's the principal for me though. If there was some sort of lifetime achievement compensation for being ****ed over for 50 years, we be up for the first 20 picks of the draft. Meanwhile West Coast having a mildly tough rebuild after a flag and they get handouts.

 

[chris_h_11]

I dont think there's much of a market for Steele unfortunately. I can't really think of any club that needs him, most clubs either have a young mid brigade that need exposure, or established mid groups that don't need his type.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I've been lazy today, so tried to see if AI could work out what each of our players in on.

This uses some anchors (like King being on the most at 1m/year), the rookie contracts (which are givens) and then divides the remaining cap (84% is what everyone is saying now right?) by the remaining players with some weighting given to draftguru's rankings.

Here is what it ended up as: - anything interesting or looks completely off? It could be fun to see what next years looks like, but I'm keen to calibrate the list with those who know more about football first.

Number	Player	Estimated 2025 Salary (AUD)	% of modeled club payroll	Games played
1	Jack Higgins	550,000	3.74%	23
2	Marcus Windhager	305,100	2.08%	23
3	Zak Jones	283,300	1.93%	15
4	Lance Collard	175,000	1.19%	12
5	Tobie Travaglia	153,000	1.04%	12
6	Jack Macrae	950,000	6.47%	21
7	Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera	400,000	2.72%	23
8	Brad Hill	566,600	3.86%	22
9	Jack Steele	750,000	5.11%	21
10	Mitch Owens	261,500	1.78%	19
11	Hunter Clark	305,100	2.08%	13
12	Max King	1,000,000	6.81%	0
13	Ryan Byrnes	174,300	1.19%	17
14	Liam Stocker	174,300	1.19%	17
15	Paddy Dow	261,500	1.78%	0
16	Dan Butler	435,900	2.97%	6
17	Isaac Keeler	165,000	1.12%	11
18	Jack Carroll	130,800	0.89%	3
19	Rowan Marshall	750,000	5.11%	23
20	Dougal Howard	523,000	3.56%	3
21	Zaine Cordy	200,000	1.36%	1
22	Darcy Wilson	215,000	1.46%	18
23	Liam Henry	550,000	3.74%	6
24	Angus Hastie	160,000	1.09%	9
25	Mattaes Phillipou	348,700	2.37%	7
26	Alix Tauru	145,000	0.99%	10
27	Arie Schoenmaker	125,000	0.85%	3
28	James Barrat	95,000	0.65%	0
29	Jimmy Webster	217,900	1.48%	15
30	Alex Dodson	94,000	0.64%	1
31	Harry Boyd	94,000	0.64%	1
32	Mason Wood	392,300	2.67%	21
33	Patrick Said	90,000	0.61%	0
34	Hugo Garcia	195,000	1.33%	17
35	Jack Sinclair	750,000	5.11%	23
38	Hugh Boxshall	134,000	0.91%	11
40	Max Hall	225,000	1.53%	23
41	Angus McLennan	115,000	0.78%	1
42	Max Heath	130,000	0.88%	4
43	Cooper Sharman	370,500	2.52%	21
44	Callum Wilkie	750,000	5.11%	23
45	Liam O'Connell	145,000	0.99%	7
46	Eamonn Armstrong	110,000	0.75%	0
47	Anthony Caminiti	225,000	1.53%	23
	Billings & Crouch (combined	500,000

Assuming I am even in the ball park (and that 84% is correct), we look very bottom heavy compared to the AFL average. This is mainly driven by a large number of players on their rookie contracts still.

Band	AFL Avg per Club	St Kilda (count)	St Kilda cumulative salary (AUD)
>$1.2m	0.83	0	0
$1.1m–$1.2m	0.44	0	0
$1.0m–$1.1m	0.72	1	1,000,000
$900k–$1.0m	0.67	1	950,000
$800k–$900k	1.06	0	0
$700k–$800k	1.61	4	3,000,000
$600k–$700k	2.56	0	0
$500k–$600k	3.61	5	2,689,600
$400k–$500k	4.94	2	835,900
$300k–$400k	6.44	5	1,721,700
$200k–$300k	8.67	8	1,889,200
$100k–$200k	7.61	15	2,231,400
<$100k	0.39	4	373,000

And for the record, here is my assumptions for rookie contracts:

• 2024 draftees: picks 1–20 → $105k, 21–40 → $95k, 41+ → $90k + $4k × games.
• 2023 draftees (2nd year): picks 1–20 → $125k, 21–40 → $115k, 41+ → $110k + $5k × games.

Howard on 523,000
Omg

 

[FQFjt]

Out of the three, this is the one which would make the most sense for us even if it nets us the least in return.

Agree, if for no other reason that I would prefer not to see Steele playing in the VFL next year.

 

[Fehring]

If we still had automatic priority picks there wouldn't be the complaining about the AFL using their discretion.

...people would go back to the more traditional form of whingeing about tanking.

 

[NAS THE GOAT]

That's fine. Kid's in his 2nd year, hasn't even turned 20 yet, and already has 4 BOG performances. Has a chance to be one of the premier mids in the game. You don't trade that level of talent for a 29 year old. If that's classified as unserious, then I think we will learn to live with that.

Chance = Risk / Unproven
He didn’t have 4 BOG’s and you make out like he is on NAS or Harley Reid level already
Frejah is a talent but he isn’t a proven A grader yet.

Cal is a rolled gold A grade, AA league defender who contracted for 2 more years. You need to pay overs to extract him out under contract. He IS 29yo, but he is the most durable player in the league and hasn’t missed a game since debut, 160 or something games in a row. He will have at least 4 years of top line AA standard defending in front of him. He rarely loses a 1 on 1 and he can play small and tall.

You can’t seriously be saying Frejah has more value on potential than a proven AA ultra consistent versatile defender