Have Richmond passed North and west coast

[JZTIME!]

The Wardlaw being quick thing just confuses me. I'll be honest i don't watch many North games because watching the eagles each week is bad enough, but i have never thought Wardlaw was quick. In fact i think he's going to face issues moving forward given how slow he is.

Maybe i just missed the games where he blew people away with speed.

He is quick. He is a power athlete. If your in his area to tackle or burst away to have a shot at goal its done in a flash. He is really quick over 30 metres rather than 100.
Not built for endurance hence the hamstrings so far. You would hope with his 2km PB Monday that he is some way to addressing the above.

 

[fl4gd0n5]

Didn't West Coast only really start their rebuild this year? I look at Adam Simpson departing as the official start their next stage, even though they had Reid, Ginbey, Hewett etc. already on the list. There seemed to be a need for a big cultural change, and even though Simpson is far from a bad coach, his tenure had gone stale. All that to say, I don't think Richmond were ever even behind West Coast (even though they finished lower on the ladder in 2024), so they can't have passed them.

Regarding Richmond v North Melbourne at the moment, I honestly think it's pretty clear that Richmond are in a better position. North Melbourne are probably a better team right now, and would win a game if they played tomorrow. When looking at the long term though, I think most people would rather be Richmond, no?

I think North have botched their list build a bit. The players that take the longest to develop typically are key position players, but North have time and time again loaded up with midfielders/flankers with their top picks. This is the main reason I think Richmond are ahead. They have promising key position players already, Gibcus and Trainor as defenders plus Faull, Sims and Armstrong as forwards. Balta and Miller are also only 26, so they're in the age bracket to potentially be there for a finals push, whenever that is. Richmond also have champions like Vlaustin, Nankervis, Broad, Prestia, Lynch and then add Taranto and Hopper, to help show these kids the ropes. North obviously have Larkey, but other than that they don't have great key position stocks. Comben is fine as an interceptor, average as a defender, Dawson has played one good game on Darcy but other than that hasn't been good. They drafted Whitlock with a high pick, and they got Thredgold this year, that's pretty much it. So, when North's midfielders are ready to go (Sheezel, McKercher, O'Sullivan, Wardlaw etc.), they will still be dealing with developing key position players who aren't at the same level. Wardlaw is also an issue, he had really bad hamstring issues before he got drafted, and now he still has them, so at this stage it's a bad pick.

Also shouldn't be dismissed how much more pull Richmond will have for free agents. North have had to overpay to get middling players like Logue, Corr, Stephens, Daniel and Fisher, all of which are not good quality AFL players, if even AFL standard at all. Parker and Darling are filling up their superannuation. Conversely, players will probably take slightly less than what North would offer, to go and play for Richmond. North are probably bottom for ability to attract players (Bulldogs have better facilities, St Kilda allows players to live near the beach, even GWS has the advantage of getting out of the Melbourne bubble), whereas Richmond will be in the top five, if not higher, once their facility is finished. It's just my opinion of course, but I think it's clearly projecting that Richmond will fly past North Melbourne in the next five years.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Parker and Darling are filling up their superannuation.

Conversely, players will probably take slightly less than what North would offer, to go and play for Richmond.

Compare the pairs

• Luke Parker: $750,000-$850,000
• Griffin Logue: $700,000-$800,000

• Tim Taranto: $775,000-$875,000
• Jacob Hopper: $750,000-$850,000

Source: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...e/news-story/fc6f49eaa03a166044d832e731380613

Dawson has played one good game on Darcy but other than that hasn't been good.

How many other 19 year olds have you seen get the better of Darcy?

 

[fl4gd0n5]

View attachment 2485950


Compare the pairs

• Luke Parker: $750,000-$850,000
• Griffin Logue: $700,000-$800,000

• Tim Taranto: $775,000-$875,000
• Jacob Hopper: $750,000-$850,000

Source: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...e/news-story/fc6f49eaa03a166044d832e731380613

How many other 19 year olds have you seen get the better of Darcy?

I appreciate the research you've put into your response.

Just because Parker finished fourth, for a team that finished 16th, isn't an argument against what I said. Just because they're filling up their superannuation doesn't mean they must play awfully and contribute nothing. But I think there are some questions that would give good context. Like; a) What other teams would have offered Parker $800k? b) Did Parker and Darling choose to join a premiership team, or a team down the bottom who offered more money (or in Darling's case, any offer)? And c) Would those players have chosen to stay at their original club, had they offered the same terms (or similar). I think those questions add relevant and important context. Whereas, just seeing Parker finished fourth, which is good, doesn't really counter my point.

Your comparison of the Richmond and North Melbourne trade acquisitions is puzzling to me. You're saying that Hopper and Taranto are the same level of player as Logue and a mid-30s Parker? Just because they get paid a similar amount, that's not really relevant at all.

You must not understand my point. Hypothetically, if a player is offered $500k by North Melbourne, and is also offered $500k by Richmond, who do you think they'd choose? Unfortunately for North, eight/nine times out of ten they'll choose Richmond because they play in big games, they have a big supporter base, they have better facilities, richer history, and they play at the MCG. You must forget how all of Dustin Martin, Andrew Gaff, Josh Kelly and Isaac Heeney all were offered more by North Melbourne, but chose to stay at their original club.

You know how bad the trade acquisitions have been over the last few years. Logue, Tucker, Polec, Pittard, Stephens, Fisher. Who else wanted these players? What other team in their right mind would pay Logue anything more than average wage, considering he couldn't even play in his preferred position in his last season at Fremantle? North paid him $700k!

Taranto and Hopper would both have been North's best player instantly, if they traded for them in 2022. Those players went to Richmond because they thought they were going to get success. If they wanted to go to North, they would've offered them much more than $800k each, given they were coming from a successful team. Look at how much they're playing Parker!

I'm not even going to spend much time on the last point. Yes, Dawson played well against Darcy, in a game they still lose heavily in. If he was so good, he would play every week and not spend time in the VFL behind Pink, Comben and Corr. Dawson is only one player, though. Not only do you need more than one key defender, he is also one of the few that North have drafted in recent years, which is my point.

I appreciate the response, but I think you've gone for nitpicking and arguing over semantics, and chosen arguments that lack important context, rather than actually arguing against anything that I've said. It's all just opinion though, neither you or I know the answer otherwise we wouldn't be on BigFooty.

 

[Shueygod]

No. You ignoramous. That's not the only reason.

He went into the midfield, so racking up 40 at HB was 2024, winning his own aggot and being pressured more (some) causes disp. eff. % to fall.

Who said anything about disposal efficiency?

We were discussing goal assists.

Just before you were saying it’s harder to do off HB (when discussing Mckercher) now moving to the midfield is a disadvantage. Which is it?

 

[Chip Scab1]

Who said anything about disposal efficiency?

We were discussing goal assists.

Just before you were saying it’s harder to do off HB (when discussing Mckercher) now moving to the midfield is a disadvantage. Which is it?

Yeah we were, our soft HBFr was 3x more effective at providing assists whilst only spending 1/2 the season where that could occur more regularly.

It's hardly a difficult equation.

There's no goal post being moved, it's simply a statement of fact.

I would have had HR in front up until about Rd 14 of this year... after that, I wouldn't swap/trade McKercher for anyone, especially with how slow we are.

 

[SSSSSS]

View attachment 2485950


Compare the pairs

• Luke Parker: $750,000-$850,000
• Griffin Logue: $700,000-$800,000

• Tim Taranto: $775,000-$875,000
• Jacob Hopper: $750,000-$850,000

Source: https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...e/news-story/fc6f49eaa03a166044d832e731380613

How many other 19 year olds have you seen get the better of Darcy?

Jesus that is grim when Caleb ****ing Daniel made the top 10.

 

[Obeanie1]

Didn't West Coast only really start their rebuild this year? I look at Adam Simpson departing as the official start their next stage, even though they had Reid, Ginbey, Hewett etc. already on the list.

Rebuild started in 2023 when they spit pick 2 and landed Ginbey and Hewett.

They cut deep in 2023 and 2024.

Simo had his papers stamped and was caretaker coach in 2024.

Mini came in 2025.

 

[Makeshift Park]

I appreciate the research you've put into your response.

Just because Parker finished fourth, for a team that finished 16th, isn't an argument against what I said. Just because they're filling up their superannuation doesn't mean they must play awfully and contribute nothing. But I think there are some questions that would give good context. Like; a) What other teams would have offered Parker $800k? b) Did Parker and Darling choose to join a premiership team, or a team down the bottom who offered more money (or in Darling's case, any offer)? And c) Would those players have chosen to stay at their original club, had they offered the same terms (or similar). I think those questions add relevant and important context. Whereas, just seeing Parker finished fourth, which is good, doesn't really counter my point.

Your comparison of the Richmond and North Melbourne trade acquisitions is puzzling to me. You're saying that Hopper and Taranto are the same level of player as Logue and a mid-30s Parker? Just because they get paid a similar amount, that's not really relevant at all.

You must not understand my point. Hypothetically, if a player is offered $500k by North Melbourne, and is also offered $500k by Richmond, who do you think they'd choose? Unfortunately for North, eight/nine times out of ten they'll choose Richmond because they play in big games, they have a big supporter base, they have better facilities, richer history, and they play at the MCG. You must forget how all of Dustin Martin, Andrew Gaff, Josh Kelly and Isaac Heeney all were offered more by North Melbourne, but chose to stay at their original club.

You know how bad the trade acquisitions have been over the last few years. Logue, Tucker, Polec, Pittard, Stephens, Fisher. Who else wanted these players? What other team in their right mind would pay Logue anything more than average wage, considering he couldn't even play in his preferred position in his last season at Fremantle? North paid him $700k!

Taranto and Hopper would both have been North's best player instantly, if they traded for them in 2022. Those players went to Richmond because they thought they were going to get success. If they wanted to go to North, they would've offered them much more than $800k each, given they were coming from a successful team. Look at how much they're playing Parker!

I'm not even going to spend much time on the last point. Yes, Dawson played well against Darcy, in a game they still lose heavily in. If he was so good, he would play every week and not spend time in the VFL behind Pink, Comben and Corr. Dawson is only one player, though. Not only do you need more than one key defender, he is also one of the few that North have drafted in recent years, which is my point.

I appreciate the response, but I think you've gone for nitpicking and arguing over semantics, and chosen arguments that lack important context, rather than actually arguing against anything that I've said. It's all just opinion though, neither you or I know the answer otherwise we wouldn't be on BigFooty.

Yeah I’d go 2025 Parker over 2025 Hopper every day of the week.

I like Stephens. Still got scope for improvement, but I think he’s unfairly maligned.

Pittard and Polec were terrible trades, but they weren’t from the last few years. They were like 7 years ago, and basically everyone involved in those trades had left, so hard to see the relevance.

Maybe you should try and make your points more accurately if you don’t want counterviews.

 

[fl4gd0n5]

Yeah I’d go 2025 Parker over 2025 Hopper every day of the week.

I like Stephens. Still got scope for improvement, but I think he’s unfairly maligned.

Pittard and Polec were terrible trades, but they weren’t from the last few years. They were like 7 years ago, and basically everyone involved in those trades had left, so hard to see the relevance.

Maybe you should try and make your points more accurately if you don’t want counterviews.

Not sure where I compared 2025 Hopper and 2025 Parker?

That's fine, I don't think Stephens is a good player. Difference of opinion.

It highlights how North aren't able to get the players they want, so they have to pay overs to get in anyone who is willing to come (Polec, Logue, Parker, Darling, Fisher, Daniel, Spargo, Tucker, Corr). This is relevant to the point that I was making but if you want to ignore that, that's fine. Please give me an example of a player that has chosen North Melbourne for a reason other than the contract. To make my point as clear as possible enough so that you can understand it, this would mean a player who had the option of a different Victorian club, who was offering similar terms, but they chose North.

I don't think the way I made my points is the issue given how you've nitpicked specific points to argue, rather than any broad topic that I discussed. If you can only look at something about football with so much bias as to not read it properly, I can't help you.

 

[kanga kanga kanga]

Not sure where I compared 2025 Hopper and 2025 Parker?

That's fine, I don't think Stephens is a good player. Difference of opinion.

It highlights how North aren't able to get the players they want, so they have to pay overs to get in anyone who is willing to come (Polec, Logue, Parker, Darling, Fisher, Daniel, Spargo, Tucker, Corr). This is relevant to the point that I was making but if you want to ignore that, that's fine. Please give me an example of a player that has chosen North Melbourne for a reason other than the contract. To make my point as clear as possible enough so that you can understand it, this would mean a player who had the option of a different Victorian club, who was offering similar terms, but they chose North.

I don't think the way I made my points is the issue given how you've nitpicked specific points to argue, rather than any broad topic that I discussed. If you can only look at something about football with so much bias as to not read it properly, I can't help you.

Your lucky ur team isn’t in this thread

 

[fl4gd0n5]

Your lucky ur team isn’t in this thread

Why, so you can tell me how bad you think Essendon are? I am very aware of the issues that my club has faced over the last 20 years, and still does face. Most of which are self inflicted.

I gave my thoughts about the topic of this thread, and am now discussing that with someone else on the forum, hope that's alright with you

 

[Makeshift Park]

Not sure where I compared 2025 Hopper and 2025 Parker?

You're saying that Hopper and Taranto are the same level of player as Logue and a mid-30s Parker?

Fwiw I agree that North don’t have certain advantages of other big clubs to attract players.

Having said that, we compare ok against Richmond’s recent trade history, so your point is poorly made.

The Taranto and Hopper trades were terrible. Absolutely last chance saloon stuff from Dimma that backfired big time. They should’ve gone to the draft that year instead.

In fact, the last good trade/fa acquisition they made was Lynch, who unfortunately has spent the last three years intermittently unavailable or out-of-form, on one of the single most expensive salaries in the comp. So maybe he’s not a favourable example either.

 

[fl4gd0n5]

Fwiw I agree that North don’t have certain advantages of other big clubs to attract players.

Having said that, we compare ok against Richmond’s recent trade history, so your point is poorly made.

The Taranto and Hopper trades were terrible. Absolutely last chance saloon stuff from Dimma that backfired big time. They should’ve gone to the draft that year instead.

In fact, the last good trade/fa acquisition they made was Lynch, who unfortunately has spent the last three years intermittently unavailable or out-of-form, on one of the single most expensive salaries in the comp. So maybe he’s not a favourable example either.

Richmond's recent trade history isn't bad though? They cleaned up in trades last year, which is how they got so many good draft picks. They obviously haven't made any big acquisitions either, because they've decided to rebuild. Don't confuse not trying with not getting.

Having the likes of Riewoldt, Lynch, Cotchin, Martin all on back-ended deals (which meant they could have build a premiership list) meant that they were getting paid more than their output was worth in recent years, but they got their flags. Lynch won them the 2019 premil almost single handedly. If he's been poor in the last few seasons it's probably still worth it. It means they still pay the right % of the salary cap too, which is handy considering all the kids they have on draftee deals. North can't bring in quality players, so they have to pay average players more than they're worth to get to the same % of the salary cap. That's the difference.

Taranto and Hopper as a whole package isn't a great deal, but Taranto has been good for Richmond. Going by your logic re Parker, Taranto has won two bnf's at Richmond, so he's been a good acquisition, even if his kicking leaves a bit to be desired. Hopper I agree has been injured and performed poorly, but when he played for GWS he was much better and at the end of 2022 it was a fair deal. At least they're still at the club though, unlike Polec or Stephenson.

 

[tiger_tough]

Fwiw I agree that North don’t have certain advantages of other big clubs to attract players.

Having said that, we compare ok against Richmond’s recent trade history, so your point is poorly made.

The Taranto and Hopper trades were terrible. Absolutely last chance saloon stuff from Dimma that backfired big time. They should’ve gone to the draft that year instead.

In fact, the last good trade/fa acquisition they made was Lynch, who unfortunately has spent the last three years intermittently unavailable or out-of-form, on one of the single most expensive salaries in the comp. So maybe he’s not a favourable example either.

Errr the Taranto trade has been great. Two bnfs in 3 seasons. The Hopper trade stinks in hindsite. And our trading last year was exceptional.

So one bad trade?

 

[Daka]

Fwiw I agree that North don’t have certain advantages of other big clubs to attract players.

Having said that, we compare ok against Richmond’s recent trade history, so your point is poorly made.

The Taranto and Hopper trades were terrible. Absolutely last chance saloon stuff from Dimma that backfired big time. They should’ve gone to the draft that year instead.

I am looking back at the 2022 AFL Draft, I think I would prefer Taranto & Hopper with where our picks would have been Hopper maybe a lil bit less, but I don't think it's been a disaster looking back, that's what you have got to compare them to.

I like what we have done instead with getting into the bumper 2024 AFL Draft and continuing on & getting 2 top talents in the 2025 Draft.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

Think both teams are in decent spots.

North should jump significantly in 2026. i have them going past Essendon, Melbourne, Port at a very minimum.

An interesting take earlier from the Essendon supporter saying they are worried about Wardlaw. Would Richmond not be worried about Smillie as well? Injured as we speak and has already missed a full season.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

How has this reached 142 pages?

Top 10 Richmond B&F - 2026 Avg Age 28.1

1st – Tim Taranto (28yo)
2nd – Nick Vlastuin (32)
3rd – Jacob Hopper (29)
4th – Ben Miller (26)
Eq 5th – Seth Campbell and Toby Nankervis (21/31)
7th – Sam Banks (23)
Eq 8th – Nathan Broad and Jack Ross (33/25)
10th – Dion Prestia (33)

Richmond are propped up (to 17th) by a bunch premiership players that will need to be replaced in the next few years. There's years left of pain.

North's young players have taken over now. There's no reliance on veterans. Only way is up.

4 years into North’s rebuild and they had to get in experience , Daniel and Parker and finished 16th in 5th year of rebuild .
Richmond has been fortunate enough to be able to keep some experience and premiership players from the get go .
as those premiership players retire we have draftees stepping up to take the void

 

[Daka]

Think both teams are in decent spots.

North should jump significantly in 2026. i have them going past Essendon, Melbourne, Port at a very minimum.

An interesting take earlier from the Essendon supporter saying they are worried about Wardlaw. Would Richmond not be worried about Smillie as well? Injured as we speak and has already missed a full season.

I reckon that's why we didn't take Sullivan Robey, we already took Lalor & Smillie who are big bodied players last year.
Had we taken Robey you then start to think are we a too top heavy team? that pick never made sense for us tbh.

Smil's injuries are a little concerning, hopefully the surgery is the circuit breaker he needs. he was super highly rated in his draft year.

Lalor's hamstring injuries are even a little concerning, but that's the only concern, to me he has already shown he is good enough with the limited amount of games he has played, that game he had against Brisbane where he had 24 disposals, 2 goals and caught Lachie Neale & McCluggage holding the ball.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Why, so you can tell me how bad you think Essendon are? I am very aware of the issues that my club has faced over the last 20 years, and still does face. Most of which are self inflicted.

I gave my thoughts about the topic of this thread, and am now discussing that with someone else on the forum, hope that's alright with you

26 next year.

30+ points down at half time in the 2014 Elim as well.

Footy has been so much worse since we used to kick absolute shit out of one another 30 years ago.

Errr the Taranto trade has been great. Two bnfs in 3 seasons. The Hopper trade stinks in hindsite. And our trading last year was exceptional.

So one bad trade?

If you think it was a good trade for the long-term project that is the Tiger rebuild, then there can be no further discussion.

Footy tends to be in the eyes of the beholder.

If you had told me Pick 4(7) was gonna be Shaun Atley née George Foreman - I would have thrown in a 2027 R3 to grease your wheels.

 

[EBERT THE KING]

I reckon that's why we didn't take Sullivan Robey, we already took Lalor & Smillie who are bigger bodied players last year.
Had we taken Robey you then start to think are we a too top heavy team? that pick never made sense for us tbh.

Smil's injuries are a little concerning, hopefully the surgery is the circuit breaker he needs. he was super highly rated in his draft year.

Lalor's hamstring injuries are even a little concerning, but that's the only concern, to me he has already shown he is good enough with the limited amount of games he has played, that game he had against Brisbane where he had 24 disposals, 2 goals and caught Lachie Neale & McCluggage holding the ball.

Yeah some good points there.

I don't see an issue with North going heavy on midfielders at the draft. Sheezel and Mckercher were clear standouts in their years, and O'Sullivan could end up being as good as both of them.

I completely disagree with the poster saying North needed to draft key position players to develop them in line with Sheezel, Wardlaw etc. Not the case at all.

North will throw a TDK type offer at a Jed Walter, Josh Treacy, Logan Morris type and get them that way. Once they show their midfield is elite, getting another gun key forward next to Larkey will be a lot easier.

 

[Chip Scab1]

Why, so you can tell me how bad you think Essendon are? I am very aware of the issues that my club has faced over the last 20 years, and still does face. Most of which are self inflicted.

I gave my thoughts about the topic of this thread, and am now discussing that with someone else on the forum, hope that's alright with you

26 next year.

4 years into North’s rebuild and they had to get in experience , Daniel and Parker and finished 16th in 5th year of rebuild .
Richmond has been fortunate enough to be able to keep some experience and premiership players from the get go .
as those premiership players retire we have draftees stepping up to take the void

This is laughable.

Richmond have topped up, brought in experience and have no good young players. None.

Would any of Richmond's kids make the Top 8 kids at Norf? I'm waiting.

I'm sure you'll find one (who's 24) but don't even bother with Hammies Laylor.

 

[tiger_tough]

If you think it was a good trade for the long-term project that is the Tiger rebuild, then there can be no further discussion.

Footy tends to be in the eyes of the beholder.

If you had told me Pick 4(7) was gonna be Shaun Atley née George Foreman - I would have thrown in a 2027 R3 to grease your wheels.

Hes 27. He has been perfect for the rebuild, even if it wasn't intended that way. Cant have a team of kids or we'll be what North have been for nearly a decade. How many years in a row in the bottom 4?

 

[Chip Scab1]

Hes 27. He has been perfect for the rebuild, even if it wasn't intended that way. Cant have a team of kids or we'll be what North have been for nearly a decade. How many years in a row in the bottom 4?

More. That part of our rebound was too long, not 37, just 25.

That part of your rebuild hasn't even started.

Some call it "ripping the band aid off" - it had to happen, then you can get a few old timers (premiership players) in to show the kids the way to prepare, train and execute.

Had we not had any injuries/suspensions, sure, your analysis would have been correct. But we did, and as a result not one of our young defenders was available (outside of first year Hardeman)...

Let's crack in to Norf, when Archer, Goater, George, Dawson & Whitlock and the new kids have shown they're not up to it. There's a chance it will happen.

 

[nut]

.


If you think it was a good trade for the long-term project that is the Tiger rebuild, then there can be no further discussion.

Footy tends to be in the eyes of the beholder.

If you had told me Pick 4(7) was gonna be Shaun Atley née George Foreman - I would have thrown in a 2027 R3 to grease your wheels.

The drafts we traded out of haven’t exactly set the world on fire….
The Hopper trade was a bust… but let’s see how it goes in the next 2-3 years when we start climbing.