Vic How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 5

[Saint]

Continued From Part 4:

Vic - How would you rate Daniel Andrews' performance as Victorian Premier? - Part 4

This thread is Continued in Part 5: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-would-you-rate-daniel-andrews-performance-as-victorian-premier-part-5.1282789/

www.bigfooty.com

 

[nylexbandit]

I remember when the left were fighting for equality all over you know eradicating racism,sexism etc... and the right-wing conservatives had a firm status quo of "race x can't do this" or women can't do that whilst still having enough skeletons in their closet to cover the world 5x over. Then the left started winning all those culture wars and they got so drunk and arrogant in their own victories and in many cases still are(winning, I mean) that they showed and are still showing the same traits that they derided against all these years, so in other words the became who they hated, and slowly the pendulum has swung and now the new right are those fighting from the bottom up.

In short the left/liberals became the elitists they so despised all those years with a whole arsenal of companies to do their bidding and the right are now the underdogs. At least that's what appears to me as a neutral observer.

Certainly, I used to be a leftist myself as a youth, god that make me sound old and I'm 30 BTW, but seeing what the left has devolved to I had no option but to take a neutral position.

As I said, maybe not my night and I should have explained better.

 

[dusty1234!]

I remember when the left were fighting for equality all over you know eradicating racism,sexism etc... and the right-wing conservatives had a firm status quo of "race x can't do this" or women can't do that whilst still having enough skeletons in their closet to cover the world 5x over. Then the left started winning all those culture wars and they got so drunk and arrogant in their own victories and in many cases still are(winning, I mean) that they showed and are still showing the same traits that they derided against all these years, so in other words the became who they hated, and slowly the pendulum has swung and now the new right are those fighting from the bottom up.

In short the left/liberals became the elitists they so despised all those years with a whole arsenal of companies to do their bidding and the right are now the underdogs. At least that's what appears to me as a neutral observer.

Certainly, I used to be a leftist myself as a youth, god that make me sound old and I'm 30 BTW, but seeing what the left has devolved to I had no option but to take a neutral position.

As I said, maybe not my night and I should have explained better.

Since when is the left winning mate. It’s always a uphill struggle for social justice is it not? If you were a lefty you would know that it is about punching up, not down and fighting for the greater good? It’s pretty weird to say that the left have become a bunch of ‘elites’. Sure some have, but do you really think say Bernie Sanders or Jeremy Corbyn is a ‘elite’?

 

[Evolved1]

You're deliberately rewording.

You're like a dog with a bone. I'm not really interested in debating semantics. You get the point.



-------------------------------------------------------

That's insane.

Stop for 10 seconds and think about what you're saying.

More word games. Why not ban alcohol, tobacco, euthanasia, cars than can travel over 80kph, unprotected sex before marriage, etc, etc, if saving lives is the highest goal in society.

How do you feel about euthanasia?

 

[Mick F]

I remember when the left were fighting for equality all over you know eradicating racism,sexism etc... and the right-wing conservatives had a firm status quo of "race x can't do this" or women can't do that whilst still having enough skeletons in their closet to cover the world 5x over. Then the left started winning all those culture wars and they got so drunk and arrogant in their own victories and in many cases still are(winning, I mean) that they showed and are still showing the same traits that they derided against all these years, so in other words the became who they hated, and slowly the pendulum has swung and now the new right are those fighting from the bottom up.

In short the left/liberals became the elitists they so despised all those years with a whole arsenal of companies to do their bidding and the right are now the underdogs. At least that's what appears to me as a neutral observer.

Certainly, I used to be a leftist myself as a youth, god that make me sound old and I'm 30 BTW, but seeing what the left has devolved to I had no option but to take a neutral position.

As I said, maybe not my night and I should have explained better.

If you refrained from using puerile monikers like ‘dansaster’ I might believe you; (i) had grown up, and (ii) were neutral.

 

[Evolved1]

I can’t think of one workplace/supervisor that values freedom of choice as a greater responsibility than sending staff home to their families alive and intact.

False equivalence. We're talking about state and national policy rather than workplace policy.

Most people don't want to be babied by their government.

 

[CM86]

I remember when the left were fighting for equality all over you know eradicating racism,sexism etc...

Sure. I'll accept your 'left', in that they're generally people looking to oppose bigotry.

The 'right' (opposite) would be those who are being opposed, in your framing.

right-wing conservatives

So you have 'the left' and then you have 'right-wing conservatives'. I don't think you're being objective.

Then the left started winning all those culture wars

'Racism, sexism etc...' is a culture war? And it's been won?

and they got so drunk and arrogant in their own victories and in many cases still are(winning, I mean) that they showed and are still showing the same traits that they derided against all these years, so in other words the became who they hated, and slowly the pendulum has swung and now the new right are those fighting from the bottom up.

This is unhinged, from my perspective.

But I've seen it before.
Using complicated and nuanced societal situations as victims and perpetrators.
Ignoring the real meaning and message behind almost all situations being referred to.

In short the left/liberals became the elitists they so despised all those years with a whole arsenal of companies to do their bidding and the right are now the underdogs. At least that's what appears to me as a neutral observer.

"left/liberals" ?
"Elitists" ?
You're using blanket terminology, to imply a hidden agenda.

How do you call yourself a "neutral observer" if you're stating a position against 'the left'?

Certainly, I used to be a leftist myself as a youth

What made you feel you were a 'leftist'?

As I said, maybe not my night and I should have explained better.

Explanations are tricky, it's not a reflection on you. I think it's important to ask questions and be questioned. It helps us understand our points.

 

[MarcMaverick]

I apologise for Bringing up Trump in this thread, I don't know what got over me .

 

[Rustin Cohle]

I remember when the left were fighting for equality all over you know eradicating racism,sexism etc... and the right-wing conservatives had a firm status quo of "race x can't do this" or women can't do that whilst still having enough skeletons in their closet to cover the world 5x over. Then the left started winning all those culture wars and they got so drunk and arrogant in their own victories and in many cases still are(winning, I mean) that they showed and are still showing the same traits that they derided against all these years, so in other words the became who they hated, and slowly the pendulum has swung and now the new right are those fighting from the bottom up.

Not a single word in this addresses the question asked. It's all just vague bullshit.

Elaborate and provide specific examples.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Sure. I'll accept your 'left', in that they're generally people looking to oppose bigotry.

The 'right' (opposite) would be those who are being opposed, in your framing.



So you have 'the left' and then you have 'right-wing conservatives'. I don't think you're being objective.


'Racism, sexism etc...' is a culture war? And it's been won?


This is unhinged, from my perspective.

But I've seen it before.
Using complicated and nuanced societal situations as victims and perpetrators.
Ignoring the real meaning and message behind almost all situations being referred to.


"left/liberals" ?
"Elitists" ?
You're using blanket terminology, to imply a hidden agenda.

How do you call yourself a "neutral observer" if you're stating a position against 'the left'?


What made you feel you were a 'leftist'?

Explanations are tricky, it's not a reflection on you. I think it's important to ask questions and be questioned. It helps us understand our points.

As a teen, I disliked,Howard,Bush, Blair anything that was to the right. I just wanted the world to be a fairer place for all. Then when I saw what a fairer place for all looked like and I felt regret and hollow. Questions like "is this the world that I want myself, partner, children to be in?" Other questions was "do I still want to be a leftist?" And because I had doubts about my position I decided to leave and renounced anything being of "the left", because I didn't share the same ideals and zeal that the left had anymore. At the same time I felt the left had abandoned me, sensing my doubts, and called me a scumbag, a racist and all matter of things basically turning me from a soldier with a purpose to one that simply cannon fodder. This was as recent as 5 years ago. Because I had warned them what was about to happen and they scoffed at me and mocked me at every turn. It was an ugly and quite frankly spiteful decoupling. I had fought along side them for the better part of my youth from my mid-teens to when I turned 25. Then they duped and dumped me. It was a harrowing experience. I do not wish anyone go through with what I went through. I was left alone in the wind, twisting, I had already disliked the right and now the left had disposed of me like trash.

I warn you to not go through what I went through. It was horrible what happened to me and I wish this fate on noone else. I feel that my story is not unique though.

Quite possibly, had the left treated me with the same fairness, on the way out, as they wanted the world to have I might have been willing to overlook Dan Andrews shortcomings as a leader. As it is because he is of the left and I am constantly reminded of when I was ridiculed by the leftists that I had once aligned with, I have disdain for him.

Once again something about tonight made me be real stupid all of the sudden. I apologise wholeheartedly.

 

[Evolved1]

I don’t know he could be on to something - think how cool it would be to see iron lungs make a comeback - a worthy sacrifice so some *******s can have “freedom of choice”

You have the choice to lock your doors and never venture outside if you're that scared of covid. As I said, I respect your right to live as you wish.

 

[CM86]

You're like a dog with a bone. I'm not really interested in debating semantics. You get the point.

No... I'm trying to get you to get the point...

I'm not attacking you. So you see the problem with your statement?

I keep bringing up your original post, that I responded to, because you keep moving away from it.

More word games. Why not ban alcohol, tobacco, euthanasia, cars than can travel over 80kph, unprotected sex before marriage, etc, etc, if saving lives is the highest goal in society.

How do you feel about euthanasia?

Ok... Maybe I'm not communicating well.

Your point was:

You can add mental health, education, and other aspects of societal health like social interaction to the list. All they care about is saving lives.

"All they care about is saving lives".

You posted it, like it was a bad thing.



If your interpretation is that all they care about is stopping everyone from dying... Then you'd be able to point at how they've banned cars, alcohol, tobacco, euthanasia, transport over 80kph, unprotected sex (before marriage?!?), etc etc...

They've not done that.

So... If they've NOT done that... (Which is what you're using as a base of what "saving lives" is...) You must understand that they're aiming at doing the least harm.

 

[CM86]

I disliked,Howard,Bush, Blair anything that was to the right. I just wanted the world to be a fairer place for all.

That clarifies a bit, what you mean when you talk about 'the left'.

Once again something about tonight made me be real stupid all of the sudden. I apologise wholeheartedly.

Nothing to be sorry about. You're not being stupid at all. Please don't apologise.

Our opinions oppose each other, and neither of us are being stupid. It's more a matter of us supporting our positions/opinions to see if they stand up or not.

Please don't put yourself down or feel bad in any way.

 

[Evolved1]

No... I'm trying to get you to get the point...

I'm not attacking you. So you see the problem with your statement?

I keep bringing up your original post, that I responded to, because you keep moving away from it.


Ok... Maybe I'm not communicating well.

Your point was:

"All they care about is saving lives".

You posted it, like it was a bad thing.



If your interpretation is that all they care about is stopping everyone from dying... Then you'd be able to point at how they've banned cars, alcohol, tobacco, euthanasia, transport over 80kph, unprotected sex (before marriage?!?), etc etc...

They've not done that.

So... If they've NOT done that... (Which is what you're using as a base of what "saving lives" is...) You must understand that they're aiming at doing the least harm.

I feel like we're playing chess here. That's fine, I like chess.

Your argument:

My position is that we should take and support whatever actions save the most lives.

So you oppose euthanasia?

When you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.

 

[CM86]

I feel like we're playing chess here. That's fine, I like chess.

No, we're not. I'm not competing with you.
I like chess as well.

So you oppose euthanasia?

When you answer my questions, I'll answer yours.

Ok.

No, I don't oppose euthanasia.

Now, I've answered your question, you won't answer mine. In fact, you'll ask me more questions about my position to get me to support/defend my position. (This makes sense.)


I'm happy for you to question me more. You don't have to answer any of my questions.

 

[Evolved1]

No, we're not. I'm not competing with you.
I like chess as well.

Ok.

No, I don't support euthanasia.

Now, I've answered your question, you won't answer mine. In fact, you'll ask me more questions about my position to get me to support/defend my position. (This makes sense.)


I'm happy for you to question me more. You don't have to answer any of my questions.

At least you're consistent then. I think it's sad that people don't have the choice to die on their own terms with their dignity intact. We're kinder to our pets than other humans.

The original post you keep going back to was made in the context of covid. Many seem to only care about case numbers, hospitalisations, and deaths caused by covid with no consideration for the effects caused by control measures. Plenty of people including those who are vulnerable are happy to take risks to live with a semblance of normality. Can you imagine how horrible it would be to live in an elderly persons home with no visitors?

 

[CM86]

At least you're consistent then. I think it's sad that people don't have the choice to die on their own terms with their dignity intact. We're kinder to our pets than other humans.

Sorry, I edited my post when I realised I'd mixed up "I don't oppose" and "I support" into "I don't support".

 

[CM86]

At least you're consistent then. I think it's sad that people don't have the choice to die on their own terms with their dignity intact. We're kinder to our pets than other humans.

The original post you keep going back to was made in the context of covid. Many seem to only care about case numbers, hospitalisations, and deaths caused by covid with no consideration for the effects caused by control measures. Plenty of people including those who are vulnerable are happy to take risks to live with a semblance of normality. Can you imagine how horrible it would be to live in an elderly persons home with no visitors?

Saving lives should be the priority.

My position is that we should support freedom of choice over saving lives

That's not your position.
It's only your position in terms of the pandemic. Why do you adjust your position for this?

 

[eddiesmith]

Or NSW for that matter, re it being mandatory for lots of specific jobs.

However put yourself in a governments shoes. Say you are premier of Victoria, you have an issue of rising case numbers and your options to ensure we don’t have heaps of deaths are either:

A) make sure as many get vaccinated as quick as possible
B) go an even more hardcore lockdown akin to Wuhan
C) Encourage people to be vaccinated but don’t mandate anything.

Seems you favour option c, but people would lose their sh*t as there would be a lack of certainty of when we’d ever reduce restrictions.

I personally took the vaccine as I want this sh*t to be over with and live life normally again and even though I’d personally be at low risk, getting vaccinated I deem good for the better of everyone.

To me it’s no different from other laws which are enforced to protect public safety (can’t drink drive, must wear bike helmets etc).

Yet we were headed for 85-90% without the mandate so what was the point? For an extra 5% it’s worth putting the other 5-10% out of work?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Yet we were headed for 85-90% without the mandate so what was the point? For an extra 5% it’s worth putting the other 5-10% out of work?

Yes.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Now the RWNJ are complaining Dan is opening up

Who would have predicted this (sarcasm on)

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Now the RWNJ are complaining Dan is opening up

Who would have predicted this (sarcasm on)

Why can’t I travel from regional Vic to regional nsw?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Why can’t I travel from regional Vic to regional nsw?

See what I mean folks?

So predictable

Now watch them complain about having a normal Xmas this year (Dan won't let it snow, the bastard)

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

See what I mean folks?

So predictable

Now watch them complain about having a normal Xmas this year (Dan won't let it snow, the bastard)

you didn’t answer the question, do you recall?

 

[Baltimore Jack]

you didn’t answer the question, do you recall?

Do you think I work for you?

 

[fortunatecrow]

A short post to acknowledge Iron Maiden.