Do Collingwood need to enter a rebuild phase?

[txbyhull]

One of the best finals players this century ? Wtf are you smoking ?
He went the wimp way out in the 3rd quarter against the Lions, and then they proceeded to steamroll you in your most important game for 2025.
Get off the grass , seriously

Hope you didn't miss this gem

JDG - one of the best finals players
Crisp - one of the best finals players
Sidebottom - one of the best finals players
Pendlebury - one of the best finals players
Nick Daicos - one of the greatest players ever entering his prime
Darcy Cameron - one of the best finals players
Josh Daicos - AA level midfielder
Ned Long - Promising young player with huge frame and tank that had some insane breakout performances last year

What am I missing? This pies midfield group is incredibly potent.

 

[Cdog71]

Hawks have finished 16th at worst in 2023 and had a 3-peat 10 within the past 10 years. I reckon thats in outlier territory. Also they haven't really achieved the end goal yet, one to watch for sure. They have also been cut-throat in free agent aquisiton because they know you can't sustainably build through the draft.

It’s not reliable the draft, recruiters and people in the F/D can talk for 5 min easily about chasing a free agent infront of the board.
Choosing between picks available for a draft it’s not certain that you’ll end up with who your targets are.
Free agency and trading in players is a lot more deliberate with less moving parts.

Richmond have got 14 kids who are high draft picks.
They’re not all going to make it.
But at that time it was a decision to create the best opportunity for the club in its circumstances.
New Pres
New CEO
New untried Coach
Retired Champs
Satisfied fans for another 5 yrs maybe

I agree you need a core of established quality players to attract decent players but also big games or quality coach/club.
I dunno Petracca would’ve gone to the Gold Coast if Dew was still there.

 

[Worm4]

Hope you didn't miss this gem

FmD. Delulu as best. Must be a relation to Fadge

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

One of the best finals players this century ? Wtf are you smoking ?
He went the wimp way out in the 3rd quarter against the Lions, and then they proceeded to steamroll you in your most important game for 2025.
Get off the grass , seriously

He has more goals in grand finals than your club has Finals appearances since 2010. That includes the time you made the finals from 9th. Just something to consider.

 

[txbyhull]

FmD. Delulu as best. Must be a relation to Fadge

I think my favourite was Josh being an AA "Midfielder"

Less than 14% of his career games he has attended 25% or more CBAs. Calling him a midfielder is as misleading as calling Elliot a key forward.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

I think my favourite was Josh being an AA "Midfielder"

Less than 14% of his career games he has attended 25% or more CBAs. Calling him a midfielder is as misleading as calling Elliot a key forward.

Collingwood midfielder Josh Daicos earned his maiden All-Australian selection in 2023 as a winger.

 

[txbyhull]

Collingwood midfielder Josh Daicos earned his maiden All-Australian selection in 2023 as a winger.

Yeah, as a winger. Not what people think of when they hear midfielder, and saying he is an AA midfielder is deliberately making it sound better than it is.

Great winger though

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Hope you didn't miss this gem

FYI. The others all speak for themselves.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Yeah, as a winger. Not what people think of when they hear midfielder, and saying he is an AA midfielder is deliberately making it sound better than it is.

Great winger though

 

[Cyclops]

I think my favourite was Josh being an AA "Midfielder"

Less than 14% of his career games he has attended 25% or more CBAs. Calling him a midfielder is as misleading as calling Elliot a key forward.

Back in my day wings were midfield, seeing as they run between the forward and backline.

Show us the clubs that deliberately bottomed out, and then won flags since the draft was well and truly distorted, say from 2011 onwards.

Advising the Pies to "rebuild" through the draft seems like bad advice.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Back in my day wings were midfield, seeing as they run between the forward and backline.

Show us the clubs that deliberately bottomed out, and then won flags since the draft was well and truly distorted, say from 2011 onwards.

Advising the Pies to "rebuild" through the draft seems like bad advice.

+ Josh Daicos has a few 3 vote efforts playing inside mid.

 

[txbyhull]

FYI. The others all speak for themselves.

CD also rated Brady Hough as one of the best mids in the comp when he played there last year lol

 

[Worm4]

He has more goals in grand finals than your club has Finals appearances since 2010. That includes the time you made the finals from 9th. Just something to consider.

Consider DeGoey being a wimp in the 3rd quarter and what happened after that incident. Best finals player this century my arse.

 

[Daka]

We should know after about 5-6 rounds,
If they struggling yep they need to enter the rebuild but I don't think they will personally doesn't sound like McRae's style.

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

Consider DeGoey being a wimp in the 3rd quarter and what happened after that incident. Best finals player this century my arse.

The best is Dustin Martin, and then theres daylight, and then theres more daylight, and then its a debate.

 

[txbyhull]

Back in my day wings were midfield, seeing as they run between the forward and backline.

They're midfielders, just pointing out that its not what people think of when they hear "AA midfielder". Most people would caveat it was as a winger.

Show us the clubs that deliberately bottomed out, and then won flags since the draft was well and truly distorted, say from 2011 onwards.

Advising the Pies to "rebuild" through the draft seems like bad advice.

Not advising the pies to fully rebuild through the draft, I said earlier the best clubs do both. Point being there's a good chance they fall off a cliff because the average age is ridiculously high.

 

[Worm4]

He has more goals in grand finals than your club has Finals appearances since 2010. That includes the time you made the finals from 9th. Just something to consider.

How many All australian sides has he made - just asking for a friend

 

[grayfox9]

Back in my day wings were midfield, seeing as they run between the forward and backline.

Show us the clubs that deliberately bottomed out, and then won flags since the draft was well and truly distorted, say from 2011 onwards.

Advising the Pies to "rebuild" through the draft seems like bad advice.

Bolded part is a meaningless statement. Nobody here is in any position to determine whether or not a club "deliberately" bottoms out. What matters is bringing in quality youth. High draft picks, however they may have been acquired, afford clubs the opportunity to bring in quality youth.

Draft played a huge role in the Bulldogs winning in 2016, Richmond from 2017-2020, Melbourne in 2021, Brisbane in 2024-2025. In fact, the draft has played a big role in just about every flag from the last 20 years except for maybe Sydney's.

Without quality youth coming through, you cannot sustain Premiership challenges. Even Geelong with all their top-up trading still maintained a good enough stream of quality youth recruitment.

 

[txbyhull]

Bolded part is a meaningless statement. Nobody here is in any position to determine whether or not a club "deliberately" bottoms out. What matters is bringing in quality youth, and high draft picks, however they may have been acquired, play a big role in that.

Draft played a huge role in the Bulldogs winning in 2016, Richmond from 2017-2020, Melbourne in 2021, Brisbane in 2024-2025. In fact, the draft has played a big role in just about every flag from the last 20 years except for maybe Sydney's.

Without quality youth coming through, you cannot sustain Premiership challenges. Even Geelong with all their top-up trading still maintained a good enough stream of quality youth recruitment.

Nah mate, we don't do nuance in this thread. They're either the greatest club of all time with all the best players ever, or they need to blow the whole place up, tear up the contracts and drafted 30 kids.

 

[Cyclops]

CD also rated Brady Hough as one of the best mids in the comp when he played there last year lol

Two Cipelands including in a finals year and massive in the 2023 finals too.

No fan of CD myself but Crisps finals record is elite.

 

[Cdog71]

Two Cipelands including in a finals year and massive in the 2023 finals too.

No fan of CD myself but Crisps finals record is elite.

….always thought he could’ve been a very good Captain after Pendlebury.

 

[Robroy22]

We should know after about 5-6 rounds,
If they struggling yep they need to enter the rebuild but I don't think they will personally doesn't sound like McRae's style.

Sounds like you've seen the early draw difficulty ratings.....as usual we play lottsa finalists early (and twice during the year)....funny about that eh?

 

[Fadge]

The best is Dustin Martin, and then theres daylight, and then theres more daylight, and then its a debate.

Good thing the calendar has ticked over to 2026, and they've excluded Martin's pre 2016 finals games. Not to mention just the single finals game post 2020.

 

[HeathySure]

Collingwood isn't balanced. Still no quality key forward. Still haven't replaced Murphy. On the brink of losing a wave of quality experience, and all of Moore, Maynard, De Goey and Darcy Cameron are now in their 30s (or hitting 30 this year).

Hawthorn was also "well balanced, well coached" 10 years ago, but as history shows, they hit the wall and dropped down for an extended period.

The Bulldogs continue to fail because they have a bad coach.

 

[Scotland]

I do not care for the word "rebuild", or looking at it as making a decision to "bottom out".

My only point is that you need quality young players coming through to sustain success. Whether that's through the draft, getting lucky with father/son, it doesn't matter. Without quality youth, challenging for success cannot be sustained. West Coast had poor youth in 2022, Richmond had poor youth in 2022, Hawthorn had poor youth in 2016. There's a pattern there.

Collingwood's list profile right now has a dearth of quality youth, and they are still dependent on a 38 year old Pendlebury and 35 year old Sidebottom to play important roles. Because of this, I do not think they can challenge for the Premiership for a while, and it's only going to get harder as those older players are phased out.

It is a bit of a get out of jail free card. As soon as you say you are rebuilding the expectation that you will win games falls away. But by the same token Essendon for example refuse to say that they are or they aren't and hover in mediocrity.

Collingwood's list is old, but they are still winning games. Finished top 4 again last year and made the prelim. Plenty of teams with more young talent did not.

When was the last time Geelong had a young team? Average age 27 and 3000 games of experience in last year's GF. 38 and 3800 in 2022. 28 and 3500 in 2020. 27 and 3200 in 2011. Even way back in 2007 it was 25 and 2500 which is comparable to Haw, Freo, GC, WB etc. now.

The only true advantage of young players is that they are free. Nick Daicos is a unicorn because he cost nothing and was a star from day one. Whether it's pick 1 or pick 75 you take them in the draft and pay them $150k for 2-3 years then keep them long term if they are any good. There are dozen or more former young Giants players running around in the comp for other teams. Fat lot of good it does GWS and GC adding young players that aren't there after 3-4 years.

If the AFL changed system overnight to something similar to what the NRL has then recruiting strategies would be thrown out the window. There are half a dozen players in the AA side who haven't been around long enough to be free agents. The reason players like that rarely move clubs is it's so difficult and costly to orchestrate. Why speculate on 18/19 year olds that look good at junior levels when you can just sign players who are already performing at AFL level?