Analysis “Hawthorn are middle of the road at best” discussion

[Strapping Young Lad]

So we’re not in really bad form, with bad skills and bad execution of a questionable game plan?

This is actually the true Hawthorn we are watching?

Woah.

 

[Billyc]

So we’re not in really bad form, with bad skills and bad execution of a questionable game plan?

This is actually the true Hawthorn we are watching?

Woah.

Weird post.

We are in bad form. We have bad skills. We have bad execution of a questionable game plan. But if you ignore all of those things (ie performance, results, skills, execution and game plan), we can see the true Hawthorn?

Are you maintaining your view that we are better than a middle of the road side?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Weird post.

We are in bad form. We have bad skills. We have bad execution of a questionable game plan. But if you ignore all of those things, we can see the true Hawthorn?

Are you maintaining your view that we are better than a middle of the road side?

Well we certainly were in the last quarter of last year and after Round 1 this thread was untouched, and yet right now we certainly aren’t and here it is bumped.

So the point is, if we really are a ‘middle of the road side at best’ as some were saying in the offseason we are actually playing at or around our level right now.

So there shouldn’t be as much angst as there is about our losses, unless you think we could be better?

 

[Billyc]

Well we certainly were in the last quarter of last year, and right now we certainly aren’t.

So the point is, if we really are a ‘middle of the road side at best’ as some were saying in the offseason we are actually playing at or around our level right now.

So there shouldn’t be as much angst as there is about our losses, unless you think we could be better?

Well at the moment we are performing well below middle of the road (bottom 4). I think we are better than that, though the evidence is building that we are not.

As I posted above, I reckon Clarko will probably find a trick in the back half of the season to sneak a few wins. That needs to be seen for what it is though as we have been sucked in by it in recent years.

The bigger issue is not 2020 and whether we end up mid ladder or bottom 4 this year. The bigger issue after 5 years without a finals win and the second oldest list in the comp, is how do we get out of mid-ladder / bottom ladder irrelevance.

I have not disagreed with the approach we have taken in trades. It was worth a shot but it has not worked. In hindsight we got it wrong, that happens. Most clubs get it wrong most of the time. I’m not interested in looking backwards

We have lost 5 years now, I can live with that given the 10 that proceeded it. But I don’t want us to waste another 5.

 

[Davo-27]

*Losing Jack Russell is starting to hurt us, we arent as fit and therefore not as competitive on the field

*The players we traded for are not playing anywhere near the standard we need from them

*Because we ignored the top 30 of the last 10 or so drafts with a few exceptions, we are painfully short on HAWTHORN Talent

*Our game style works if you have highly skilled, fast moving players, we are lacking in both areas of highly skilled players and speedy/quick disposal players

*We have some regulars who have been poor for years and are never in danger of being dropped

*We have very few players who will fly the flag when a team mate gets hit

*We have too many outside players, meaning our tackling and general defensive efforts are poorer than average

*We lack Champions and Leadership, the only players on our list that might be called both are past their prime, Smith and Burgoyne, our Captain has let us down, it's such a poor situation atm

*We don't just need a rebuild, we need a massive clear out like 2004 (25 delistings in 3 seasons), the people in charge have completely crap the bed for the last 5 years at least, but they did halt their insanity for the 2019 draft at least, small blessing

 

[PenAndPaper]

Well we certainly were in the last quarter of last year and after Round 1 this thread was untouched, and yet right now we certainly aren’t and here it is bumped.

So the point is, if we really are a ‘middle of the road side at best’ as some were saying in the offseason we are actually playing at or around our level right now.

So there shouldn’t be as much angst as there is about our losses, unless you think we could be better?

15th is not middle of the road though, I think that's the exact problem people are having. If we are even supposed to be a middle of the road side we are performing well below that.

 

[NICE1]

So we’re not in really bad form, with bad skills and bad execution of a questionable game plan?

This is actually the true Hawthorn we are watching?

Woah.

Our list is poor! Yes all the above points are valid but you also seem to keep ignoring the fact that we dont have the cattle.

 

[Spursfan]

15th is not middle of the road though, I think that's the exact problem people are having. If we are even supposed to be a middle of the road side we are performing well below that.

I think we are a 'middle of the road' side who are under performing whilst teams who you could also say are also middle of the road are over performing (or have in fact gone past us) hence our slip right down the ladder.

 

[TylerDurden]

We're a middle of the road list with a rock bottom gameplan. No one moves the ball slower or worse than us at present. Fact.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Middle of the road is 6-11 I suppose that's why people are frustrated, we're currently sitting 15th ?

 

[Gralin]

Middle of the road is 6-11 I suppose that's why people are frustrated, we're currently sitting 15th ?

If we are middle of the road at best, well clearly we are not at our best right now.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Our list is poor! Yes all the above points are valid but you also seem to keep ignoring the fact that we dont have the cattle.

Thats true based on current form and exposure, but....

We may have the cattle to be a lot better than we currently are, but it’s down the back paddock hardly getting a look in.

We need some turn over at the end of this year, no doubt, but we also need to see some development of the youngsters we supposedly rate, but do not give games to.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

If we are middle of the road at best, well clearly we are not at our best right now.

Hence people are frustrated.

 

[Gralin]

Hence people are frustrated.

And if we were middle of the road people would be frustrated that we aren't in the 8
The it would be aren't in the top 4

People bitched and moaned throughout the threepeat, people like to complain.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

And if we were middle of the road people would be frustrated that we aren't in the 8
The it would be aren't in the top 4

People bitched and moaned throughout the threepeat, people like to complain.

I think it's pretty justified ATM to be fair.

 

[Gralin]

I think it's pretty justified ATM to be fair.

People always do.

We lost four in a row last year and then turned things around.

Maybe we do this year maybe we don't

We've not seems to cope with being in Sydney, hopefully we do better in Perth at Optus.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

People always do.

We lost four in a row last year and then turned things around.

Maybe we do this year maybe we don't

We've not seems to cope with being in Sydney, hopefully we do better in Perth at Optus.

It mattered little though as we didn't play finals, just like this season now even if we do it probably won't be enough to play finals given the hole we're digging ourselves.

 

[SA HAWK]

People always do.

We lost four in a row last year and then turned things around.

Maybe we do this year maybe we don't

We've not seems to cope with being in Sydney, hopefully we do better in Perth at Optus.

I am sure we can rally some late wins to suck people into thinking we are on the way up again.

 

[Gralin]

We need to see who is able to turn things around

 

[MightyHawks]

How many top 4 sides did we lose to in Sydney I wonder?

 

[Spursfan]

How many top 4 sides did we lose to in Sydney I wonder?

I would say probably Collingwood? Dees and giants possible finals candidates unlikely for top 4

 

[MasterSamurai]

As long as the club know where we're at, I don't see a big problem.

 

[SA HAWK]

As long as the club know where we're at, I don't see a big problem.

If they don’t know now they never will.

 

[MasterSamurai]

If they don’t know now they never will.

Let's see. Going into this season our list and form from last year suggested that the club felt that our senior players could lead us to the top end of the ladder. We're 8 rds in and so far our mc have made some noise about upcoming changes.
Poppy- dropped not once but twice.
Stratton - captain who recovered his poor form from early last year and still playing the lockdown role but poor on the attack and intercept play. He may not get dropped but could be his last 10 games for the club.
Henderson- deserved the chance to be in our best 22 until recently. Can't drop a bloke who came into the season with career best form from 2019. But we may not see him till the last few games anyway.
Keegan - worth a shot, maybe two games or so but only in for structure to replace cegs .
Scully- not impressive but again,. Worth giving him a extended shot but make no mistake, he'd be in the gun as of now.
Burgoyne- champion who played well in Rd 1 against the lions and wasn't too bad against swans in the 2nd half. Was already rested once and maybe more in the upcoming weeks.
Lewis/TOB- seem like an awesome one-two frwd set up 2nd half of last year but very unlucky for Lewis that he seems unfit and not ready to play senior footy. TOB out of sorts but not in the side this week anyway.
Patton - clarko wanted a big bloke who can clunk marks and get Gunston and tob to roam around freely but also injured .

Now, where are going wrong? Day , Morris, Jones getting debuts plus Hanrahan and scrimshaw getting chances along with Morrison all the while Bruest, Impey are our of our side. Let's give it till end of the year to see how clarko and wrighty go about fixing our list. Gotta feeling clarko knows all this and more.

 

[MrPremiership]

We are much better than this on paper.

So why aren't we performing?