RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
- Aug 23, 2010
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Why are you talking about someone who never existed in a Kobe Mutch thread?
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Delisted #19: Kobe Mutch - Not offered a contract for 2021
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Mutch been hitting the gym I see
- Apr 15, 2013
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Totally nailed hand passes.
Never say die attitude.
Another illegitimate offspring of Ablett.
Noticeable size increase. Hooker looks a bit thicker in the bi’s and tri’s too.
TheGreatBarryB
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Greatest comeback ever!
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That photo of Kobe - good size. He's gonna play a plenty of games next year .. more than ten I reckon. Not from round 1, but they'll come.
I just have this ‘feeling’ about this bloke. I reckon he’s a complete midfield package.
For those who have watched him closely, how high is his ceiling? Does he possess enough break away speed? Is he a player who will more cruise his away around the ground before hitting a contest? Is he strong enough yet in one-on-ones? Is he good enough overhead to drift forward and cause damage? What might hold him back from reaching an elite level of performance?
For those who have watched him closely, how high is his ceiling? Does he possess enough break away speed? Is he a player who will more cruise his away around the ground before hitting a contest? Is he strong enough yet in one-on-ones? Is he good enough overhead to drift forward and cause damage? What might hold him back from reaching an elite level of performance?
- Oct 12, 2014
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Speed and disposal are the main knocks. Really needs to flatten out both his kicks and handpasses if he wants to make it. A 25+ touch player with a balance of inside/outside is probably his ceiling. Wouldn't get separation on a lead so his forward potential is very low.
- Jun 2, 2012
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From what I can recall from the times I saw him in the VFL, accumulator, who can find the ball anywhere on the ground. No real break away speed from what I saw. Shuffles around like Cameron Ling. Can win a clearance. His kicking was pretty poor in the VFL, and his decision making overall was not great.
Cant say I agree with the knocks on his kicking, nothing spectacular but more often than not it did the job.
I had a very different perception of Mutch's ball use this year.
He played mostly as defensive winger/half back sweeper which meant that he was getting a lot of the ball under relatively little pressure. I thought that he generally did very well distributing off both feet. He doesn't have a cannon but he's accurate and I'd say that his kicking is well above average.
He didn't play that much on the inside until later in the year so it's a bit harder to get a read on his inside play. From memory he was more of the Langford style of finesse and creativity than he was a bull at a gate. He was a gangly kid so his approach doesn't come as a surprise and, in any event, I don't see it as a negative.
He definitely won't be renowned for his break away speed.
At this stage he is a very similar player to Stanton which, again, is no criticism.
He played mostly as defensive winger/half back sweeper which meant that he was getting a lot of the ball under relatively little pressure. I thought that he generally did very well distributing off both feet. He doesn't have a cannon but he's accurate and I'd say that his kicking is well above average.
He didn't play that much on the inside until later in the year so it's a bit harder to get a read on his inside play. From memory he was more of the Langford style of finesse and creativity than he was a bull at a gate. He was a gangly kid so his approach doesn't come as a surprise and, in any event, I don't see it as a negative.
He definitely won't be renowned for his break away speed.
At this stage he is a very similar player to Stanton which, again, is no criticism.
I assumed that he may have been lacking breakaway speed. Can he make an impact going forward? Stanton was actually quite dangerous forward of centre and an accurate kick at goal.
In what way us Mutch similar to Stanton?
I am no expert on Mutch but he doesn’t strike me as being a very similar player to Stanton.
Old Stan’s as a player & clubman was a bit maligned on big footy by plenty of the nongs around here.
Stanton was a very reliable kick and was consistently one of the most trusted players by foot to distribute the pill into the forward line. This is not something we can say about Mutch
Stanton’s decision making was also first class. His fitness elite, in fact the best at the club.
I don’t think he has any of the key Stants attributes - great reliable kicking, excellent decision making and the fittest guy on the list.
It’s early days for him & I like Mutch. Might get a go in the Snr team in 2019 - no space for him in 2018.
Personally not sold on him and honestly not sure if he is good enough...yet! I hope he proves me wrong. However not everyone can make the grade. 2018 will be interesting for Mutch.
He came 2nd in our VFL best and fairest in his first season geez your a hard one to please
A hard one to please. Not sorry about that. I don’t jizz my pants on the promise of a player still a bit off the pace. We can’t be giving games to guys when kicking isn’t elite or decision making is off especially in defence. They will simply crack at AFL level and cost us goals. Give him another year in the twos.
He needs to refine his kicking and decision making and make him a weapon. I like his hard work though - perhaps this is his only Stanton like trait I see.
Coming 2nd in the VFL is a good early indication that the guy has a future as and has most tools required. Interestingly, 3 / 4 of the top 4 aren’t in the AFL team anymore. Not that this matters Mutch. Anyway
My point was that he isn’t a similar player to Stanton as Bruno suggested and with selection pressure building he is unlikely to get a game in the ones in 18. Maybe one or two games at the back end of the season if he is extremely lucky.
He is becoming a good team player.
But Stanton was a champ & a very important player for us. Stanton played over 200 games for the club and displayed fine poise & accuracy.
These are traits that Mutch doesn’t always posses.
To suggest Mutch is a very similar player to Stanton glosses over what makes Stanton great and unrates his fine contribution to our club.
Anyway after the birth of my first Baby Bomber last week I osolate between Mad Bomber, Cranky Bomber and Ecstatic Bomber. Right now I am Cranky Bomber operating less sleep than a ice smoker on a long bender.
He needs to refine his kicking and decision making and make him a weapon. I like his hard work though - perhaps this is his only Stanton like trait I see.
Coming 2nd in the VFL is a good early indication that the guy has a future as and has most tools required. Interestingly, 3 / 4 of the top 4 aren’t in the AFL team anymore. Not that this matters Mutch. Anyway
My point was that he isn’t a similar player to Stanton as Bruno suggested and with selection pressure building he is unlikely to get a game in the ones in 18. Maybe one or two games at the back end of the season if he is extremely lucky.
He is becoming a good team player.
But Stanton was a champ & a very important player for us. Stanton played over 200 games for the club and displayed fine poise & accuracy.
These are traits that Mutch doesn’t always posses.
To suggest Mutch is a very similar player to Stanton glosses over what makes Stanton great and unrates his fine contribution to our club.
Anyway after the birth of my first Baby Bomber last week I osolate between Mad Bomber, Cranky Bomber and Ecstatic Bomber. Right now I am Cranky Bomber operating less sleep than a ice smoker on a long bender.
eth-dog
Tier 1 WW Player
Mutch is very similar to Stanton to those who actually watched him at VFL level. He was one of the fittest players every week, running more than most players whilst on a wing, his kicking wasn't fantastic but wasn't poor and had similar stuff ups as Stanton did. Honestly not sure what you're on about MBS because the Stanton comparison is a very good one.
Yep, this is the comparison ive always made.
I think Mutch will end up being an important part of the side as a high accumulation, link man. Nothing spectacular but an important part of the side.
You have obviously repressed much of what Stanton used to do. He was most definitely not renowned for being a reliable kick. He wasn't a terrible kick, but he was certainly prone to the more than occasional shank.
Its very easy to call Stanton a champion now, but you cant forget that he was a whipping boy for a long period of time.
In terms of what makes Mutch similar to Stanton:
-reliable but not outstanding kick
-excellent fitness base
-ability to get in the right places to receive the ball in space
-excellent running patters, again to get on the end of the uncontested possession
-very high production
-no great speed
1. He wont need to be extremely luck at all. He's already on the verge. Our recruiting this offseason has made cracking the 22 even harder, but we'll have some injuries and no doubt Mutch will get his opportunity
2. lol. it doesnt unrate Stantons contribution at all. All we are doing is merely comparing footballing attributes. Mutch has a long way to go to reach 200 games, no doubt, and noone is saying he is going to have the CAREER that Stanton had.
For a start, I never quite know what is meant by 'decision making' and just assume that it's a skill error by another name. The instances of situations in a match when decision making is objectively identifiable as being poor, and not a skill error, are few and far between. To know whether the right decisions are being made you need to have an in depth knowledge of game plans, coaches expectations, etc.
In terms of his disposal, I have not seen anything from Mutch that is any cause for concern, in fact, it's far from being a concern. I do adjust my expectations for disposal at VFL level and tolerate a standard of disposal that I would not tolerate at AFL level.
I don't buy into the idea that the increased pace of the game causes problems for disposal (that's a matter of composure and adapting to needing to move quicker). My guess is that the slower pace of the VFL game results in players not kicking through the ball. It's kind of like the way it's easier to keep a bike stable when moving quickly or it could be less time to think about things and more intuitive in the AFL. Good kicks in the AFL will frequently look second rate in the twos.
I thought that Mutch's disposal off both feet is well ahead of the norm in the VFL and I expect that it to get better in the AFL (as it does for most).
Getting on to Stanton, I would hope that a 250 game player had great decision making, whatever that is, and great disposal. The point of the comparison is as a style of player. What was Stanton renowned for? A monstrous work rate between the arcs primarily starting from half back. He wasn't an inside bull but he became a competent midfielder and wingman. There are certainly differences between the two, as there are when comparing all players.
An important similarity that I would draw your attention to if you thought that Mutch has problems with decision making and disposal is that Stanton was horrible with ball in hand for his first 50 odd games.
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You also get better, smarter movement from your targets. Witness how bad the backline's kicking looked in 2015 once the midfield gave up.
Good reply Bruno & sundry. I will start watching him more carefully now. I like players who work very hard. He has this. Hope he breaks into the team for a few games.
One point I will pull you up on though is about the increased pace of the game at AFL Vs VFL.
I feel it is a significant jump in pace and this will certainly impact on disposal quality. Small flaws become much greater when players step up to AFL level. Laverde’s disposal in the AFL games vs his VFL disposals are very different. Both the actual & infered pressure along with the significant quickening of pace effect disposal absolutely in the AFL when compared with the VFL.
However played adjust to this change of pace & find there feet after an injury free run of 30+ games ( but this varies of course with different players).
Cheers & happy Christmas
??? Decision making is when, in a split second, you choose whether to kick to that player, or handball to this player; to hold the ball a bit longer in traffic for another option or dish it off earlier; to fly for a mark or stay front & square; essentially to choose one particular option out of an array of potential options.
That is nothing to do with skill, as decision-making is distinct from the execution of the outcome of the decision; and the instantaneous nature of it generally divorces it from game plan at least to a significant degree. Game plan is a macro framework, whereas decision-making is a micro constituent that is one part of enabling the effectiveness of the macro framework ie game plan. To mistake one for the other is a fundamental misunderstanding of the distinct nature of each.
To deny that "decision-making" is a thing is puzzling as *. It is glaringly obvious that some players have the cognitive ability to quickly sum up the situation at any given moment in time, prioritise the available options, and choose the one that is more correct in the larger context of the game as opposed to the split second; better than other players. Often considerably better.
I am bemused and surprised you don't see this frankly
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