2001 Ladder

[Shinboners]

What the heck......

1. Essendon. Set the standard, but 2001 will be much tougher. They had a blessed run with injuries while their main challengers had problems....Carlton lost key players, Melbourne were too green, North had a shocking year off the field, and Brisbane didn't seem to get any momentum going.
2. Brisbane. With their list, surely they have to make a Grand Final sooner rather than later.
3. St. Kilda. Blight magic and the recruits will see them storm up the ladder. In the last few seasons, there has always been a team to make the jump.
4. North Melbourne. Things don't seem to be as gloomy as they were back in August. But plenty will depend on Rocca taking the pressure off Carey.
5. Sydney. Showed enough in the 2nd half of last season to convince me that they're a good side. It wasn't Essendon and Melbourne that destroyed North's finals campaign, it was the Swans at the SCG. From that point on, morale at Arden Street was shredded. A fit Kelly will make a world of difference.
6. Melbourne. The key to their side is their midfield and more teams will plan for that. It'll be interesting to see how many of their kids get 2nd year blues as well.
7. Carlton. Plenty will rest on Kouta's shoulders, but I still have doubts on whether he can continue on with his '00 form. A very good player who will become a great player, and then a champion, if he can replicate his form over many years.
8. Geelong. Their main problem in '00 was a lack of a good marking forward, and that's now fixed with the recruitment of Mitchell White. A good even side.
9. Hawthorn. A great goal-to-goal line, that will become very damanging if Crawford can return to his best form.
10. Footscray. A lack of tall marking defenders will hurt them, and thus, the old problem of where to play Chris Grant will rear its head.
11. Richmond. Frawley has got the best out of an ordinary list, but as in previous years, when everything has been put on the line, they've failed. At least they won't finish 9th.
12. West Coast. They had a terrible run with injuries in '00, but I wonder if that has damaged the moral of the club. Plenty of skilled players, but they need a Worsfold type enforcer because I reckon that when the pressure is applied (like Freo did to them), they fold.
13. Adelaide. Gary Ayres will get the sack halfway through the season and be replaced by someone else who will drag them up to 13th.
14. Collingwood. Showed some spirit and run towards the end of the season, but their kids will need one or two seasons before they can get hardened enough to challenge for a finals place. They would do well with some experienced 26/27/28 year old leaders, but clubs just don't give them away and the only 26-28 year olds around are generally journeymen or ones who haven't made it. But they'll have their annual win against North.
15. Fremantle. Forever talking about potential, but never delivering. No change for next season.
16. Port Adelaide. Living on the reputation of their SANFL counterparts, they will find that it's not enough to carry them in the bigger pond that is the AFL. They will sink to the bottom.

 

[Sydneyfan]

In my post, I mentioned Port improving on '99 and Collingwood about the same as '99. Sorry it was a typo, I meant the season just past, 2000. I'm starting to forget what year it is now, I must be losing it

 

[Dan26]

G4E,

I thought you were supposed to be banned.

 

[sandie]

Dan
He was for 2 weeks, bluey said if he posted in that time, he will ban him permanently.
Cheers

------------------
mantis

 

[Bluey]

I tried G4E. I gave you plenty of warnings. I gave you the courtesy of not banning you outright, just a two week 'Time Out' period.

Do you respect my wishes? No, you have to act the fool and be the first person banned from BigFooty.com in the 11 months of operation.

Good bye.

 

[CrowsOK]

sabre_ac wrote: CrowsOK Who are your leaders?

Since you ask the leaders are Riccuito, McLeod, Goodwin and Hart. Three of those are current all-Australians, and relatively young players.

sabre_ac wrote: What up and coming young stars are on your list?
McLeod is a champion player, but apart from those above, Johnson and Edwards are quite good younger players.

I expect Neil Craig to be able to improve fitness and positioning, so look for some younger players with skill (but perhaps lacking in presence) to come more to the fore- Stenglein, Marsh and Byrne.

Eccles may be able to step up a bit, as may Perrie and perhaps even Bienke. Another candidate for improvement is Biglands. Crows also will be looking for a bit more from Stevens and/or Basett in defence.

Of the even younger ones (who probably won't be seen in 2001 as they need another year or two yet), look out for Angwin, Handby, Doughty and perhaps Smith. Golding is a very sizeable player who may make an impression if his fitness level can be improved.

sabre_ac wrote: You may have a young side on paper but the crows still rely largely on the same old players Bickleys,Jarmans and richioto's

Ricciuto is not old. Bickley and Jarman are not relied upon (although they do contribute). Take a look at the finishing order in the clubs best and fairest this season for a clue. It doesn't say: "Bickley, Jarman and richioto". Not by a long shot.

sabre_ac wrote: I'll give you burton
Burton has potential to be a star, very athletic & spectacular, lots of endurance, gets a lot of possession, burns off opponents, but perhaps could improve in disposal and needs to avoid injury. Time will tell.

sabre_ac wrote: On to the forward line
You have NO key position player in your forward line. Vardy was about to be traded due to his inconsitency. Jarman is on his last legs. Hewitt couldn't get a game with the Kangaroos,but with Carey and Mc Kernan in the team thats not too bad.Putting your faith in him is another story. Your forward line is weak. Wether you can see it or not is another matter.

The forward line is not a great strength, agreed. But it is not so weak as to rate going backwards in 2001. Welsh is more important than Vardy. Hewitt will add something, surely, as will Bode. McGregor was beginning to take quite a few grabs, but he can't kick. McGregor may take CHB, which might return Robran (who can kick) to a forward role. Jarman is indeed on his last legs, but then again he never did rely on his legs (pace). You don't lose skill as you get older, remember. Jarman may be older but he is still up there in the leagues top twenty or so scorers.

Angwin is (perhaps longer term) a potential key-position forward.

sabre_ac wrote: When I think of a young side, I also think of a talented young side.

Nah. You just don't know much about player lists of other sides.

Remember, all I'm trying to claim is this: "Crows to improve a few places in 2001, rather than go backwards." Not that they will be great or worldbeaters or anything, just a few places better than last year.

 

[Tom FC]

Sorry Crows, but I reckon sabre might be right, and you might even struggle to just improve a few places on the ladder.
I have always maintained that neither Ricciuto, nor McLeod, nor Goodwin deserved to make the A-A side, but more important than that, Adelaide just don't have the depth all throughout the side, which is becoming so important.
As for your younger players, Johnson and Edwards, I would think that just about every team has players of that age of that calibre.
Still, this is football, and anything can happen. I could be proved wrong within a month of the season starting.

 

[CrowsOK]

Originally posted by Tom FC:
Sorry Crows, but I reckon sabre might be right, and you might even struggle to just improve a few places on the ladder.
I have always maintained that neither Ricciuto, nor McLeod, nor Goodwin deserved to make the A-A side, but more important than that, Adelaide just don't have the depth all throughout the side, which is becoming so important.
As for your younger players, Johnson and Edwards, I would think that just about every team has players of that age of that calibre.
Still, this is football, and anything can happen. I could be proved wrong within a month of the season starting.

I didn't say they were worldbeaters, any of them. Just OK. As for those making the A-A side, sure its questionable, but the point is they are around the mark.

I found a sort of calculator wherein you put down an amount, in goals per week, that a side might improve (or get worse) by. Crows need only one goal per game better than 2000 record to make it into 6th spot.

They are really not far off that small improvement necessary to raise up a few places. Just one player could make that much difference, let alone a coach who can get them finishing off games strongly as they did in 97 & 98.

In contrast, for instance, if Saints did 3 goals per game better than 2000 then they would still be bottom. Three goals is a big improvement, I can't see it happening, yet on this very board there are all sorts of posters tipping Saints to make the eight. Go figure! It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk]

who really cares about the Crows anyway.

The point is - they played absolutely
sh!thouse against Melbourne in the exhibition match. Now i know its very early days and that is not much of an indicator but still thats probably why most ppl have written them off for 2001 after watching that performance in London.

sPiDeR eVeRiTt and RiCkY oLaReNsHaW
~kewlest players round!!!

 

[HahnPremium37]

Here is my opinion...
1 Western Bulldogs
2 Essendon
3 Brisbane
4 Melbourne
5 Richmond
6 Hawthorn
7 Geelong
8 Carlton
9 St Kilda
10 Kangaroos
11 Collingwood
12 Port Adelaide
13 Adelaide
14 Sydney
15 Fremantle
16 West Coast

Some of this is wishful thinking lol

------------------
http://www.geocities.com/isdogisgood/index.html

 

[[*]Magpie_Guy20[*]]

Essendon (will be in grand final for next 2-3 years)
Hawthorn (young but talented side yet to show their full potential)
Melbourne (definatly a chance for the premiership but i think they will face bad luck)
Brisbane (good side but doesn't have the match winners like Essendon)
Saints (nice side but still have some very shit players, I am not sure about this prediction)
Collingwood (many of you may think I am dreaming but I think the young players will have matured and that collingwood will become a chance for the 4)
Carlton (becoming shitter and shitter but will snag a place in the eight 2002 bottom 4)
Kangas (really i dont think they'll make the eight but anyway who else will?)
I have no ****ing clue about the bottom eight
they are all hopeless and deserve to all be wooden spooners.

 

[jod23]

1. Essendon - way too good, they should be illegal.
2. Melbourne - just legal.
3. Sydney - Kelly Courageous
4. Hawthorn - watch for Crawford.
5. Carlton - there still very good. Kouta!
6. Brisbane - may self destruct
7. St Kilda - Blight should make them win.
8. West Coast - not as bad as everyone thinks, i have faith.

------------------------

9. Geelong - they have NO stars.
10. Freo - very good and will miss out only because of inexperience. Without a doubt 2002 finals team.
11. Richmond - poor poor Tiges
12. Nth Melb - Wayne who??
13. Bulldogs - dirty tactics are getting old and so are they.
14. Port - god they suck.
15. Collingwood - i pity this team.
16. Adelaide - considering the last two comments i made on 14th and 15th ill let you use your imagination for the Crows.

 

[Westy Boy]

1 : St Kilda- don’t laugh! This is going to be the year of THAT elusive miracle (wooden spoon to premiership). Dogs came from 15th in 96 to within 2 pts of a grand final. Look at their MAJOR quality additions in every department this year (their defence is a bit brittle though). The excitement at the club going into next year is unbelievable. They can’t wait.
2 : Essendon- Not bad

3 : Brisbane- Topped up their defense beautifully with Michael and Pike, forward line looks weaker (with Lynch getting on abit), but with the likes of crumbing forwards like Power, should do very well with their youthful midfield.
4 : Hawthorn- Give us a bit a few keys dammit!!! Most youthful spine in the league, maybe won’t be dominant next year. If Rehn stays fit, and midfield improves a touch (Johnson looks the goods), the rest of the comp is going to know about it.
6 : Richmond- If Richardson fires, watch out!- logic says that if they have a better time with injuries, they will improve remarkably.
5 : North- Always thereabouts, Sav factor could add a lot of enthusiasm to the team, Bell’s departure could open the door for a gun youngster like Dylan Smith to step up straight away, Adam Lange is an exciting prospect.
7 : Melbourne -no “real” match winners, but a balanced side. Yoyo syndrome could see them slide further
8 : Geelong -A bit lucky this year IMO, but additions will see them stay thereabouts.
9 : Sydney -Could go higher, Williams will go better than expected. Goodes is ready to take the next step. No real stars, but good solid team with strong midfield and experience.
10 : Carlton- am I the only one that senses a bit of disharmony in the club?? Irrespective of that, Brittain may take time to find his feet despite his solid grounding this year, and I get the sense that they are going to try inject some youth into the team straight away, which may lead to some short term pain
11

Bulldogs -something called a youth policy when no youngsters get a game

, if one of the younger forward key position players can step up to CHF, releasing Grant to CHB with Hunter at FB, defense doesn’t look as fragile.... big if!... but how well our supposed strength (midfield) performs will have a larger bearing on our finishing position than our lack of keys IMO... “stale”- no injection of new players to be enthusiastic about. Especially after taking painfully thin developing players at the draft, who have NO chance of stepping up straight away. Pessimistic, can I borrow your username again?

12 : Fremantle- still too collectively young. Bell presence may make the rest of the players stand taller. Will finish higher if they don’t allow their losses to blow out
13 : Adelaide- After 97/98, I shall never mention this team again.
14 : Collingwood- I rate them more than a lot of others, and this lower than where I actualy think they will finish. I just didn’t want put on on top of the doggies

But loss of Michael will hurt a lot
15 : West Coast- changing of the guard. Cousins should have a huge year, don’t know how much of an effect that is going to have on their position.
16 : Port Adelaide- Unless Tredea can really step up, doesn’t look good. But stranger things have happened!

 

[Grendel]

St.Kilda, Westy, have you been at the Kahlua milkshakes again?


ps your selling your own mob short too!

 

[Westy Boy]

Grendel, THAT (now infamous) milkshake was a recommendation for Spotty, and sure enough, he fetched it

.

And cheers for believing in us

. I'm one of those irritating negative supporters who no-one can stand. This derives from years of having my heart shattered *sniff* *sniff*

I (like you said on page 2) see us as one of the pack of about 12 teams who could concievably make the eight or finish far lower down depending on a number of factors, and this year (more so than other years), I have a feeling there will be about a game or two seperating this pack. The doggies can finish anywhere between 6th to 14th. Being the pessemistic type (and considering what Terry is trying to achieve in the long term- which I don't entirely understand because I am no footy expert), we are going to go through a difficult phase at some time or another, so i won't be pinning high hopes on the team this year (but I will always dream

).

[This message has been edited by Westy Boy (edited 17 November 2000).]

 

[Shinboners]

Westy Boy,

You need a tall player? Well, we've got just the one for you. His name is Ryan O'Conner and we hope that you pick him up before we get the chance to. Ah, is he good? I remember he played one great game on Tony Lockett, so how good is that? Hey?

 

[Westy Boy]

Don't joke around Shinners... because we're actually looking at picking him up.... seriously!..... TERRY!!!! PASS!!! PASS!!! PASS!!! DAMMIT!!... but one good game you say?....would he be due for another one soon?... hmmm.... Wills won us a match against Melbourne this year.... i reckon 4 premiership points is a worthy tradeoff for a pre season draft pick

 

[Shinboners]

Westy Boy

In the interests of the grand fraternity of unimportant and meaningless clubs, we here at North Melbourne *insist* that you, the wonderful Footscray Football Club should take Ryan O'Conner into the warm bosom of Melbourne's fine western suburbs. Besides, we have plenty of tall defenders like Martyn, Archer, McCartney, Colbert, Carey, and....um....I've seen Brent Harvey take an overhead mark and I could've sworn I saw Shannon Grant take a contested one once and....er....just trust me....we have *plenty* of tall marking defenders....

 

[Westy Boy]

Shinners,
Well..... if you put it THAT way... i mean I wouldn't want to leave you with an overload of defenders or anything..... Ryan.... Welcome Home!!!.... Whitten Oval!..... no.... no... I couldn't do that to North Shinners.... i feel so bad.... we will LET you have him.... we'll pass.... from the bottom of our hearts.... i sense we will live to regret this missed opportunity

... BTW- i heard he can be a handy midfield tagger

 

[gocatsgo]

Aryana - I think you forgot someone - Check your list again!

I'll have my 2 cents worth even though I'm sure I've done this before!

1. Essendon - 2 good, 2 even and are a lot older side than in 1994 when they fell away. The experience counts.

2. Geelong - Unlike others on this board, I believe they have recruited well and don't need any more kids that will take 2 or 3 years to develop. They were good enough to finish 5th after the H&A this season, and only have to improve 1 spot to get the double chance - Ready to challenge in September

3. Richmond - Frightfully unlucky last season and are good enough to beat anyone on their day - Even Essendon, great coach and the players are hungry for success

4. Hawthorn - Young side that has already won a final, great experience for them, will be close next season

5. Melbourne - Up there again, but will struggle a little bit more now teams are aware of them

6. Brisbane - Just a regulation 6th for the lions again.

7. Port Power - The Eagles of 1989/90 after they made the finals in 1988 and fell away in 1989, then returned with a bang in 1990. Same type of side and will dominate the next decade

8. Fremantle - One for the battler, good enough now to challenge for a finals spot - Brisbane 1995

9. StKilda - great recruiting, great coach, is it enough to get them into the finals, I'm not prepared to commit just yet

10. Bulldogs - Starting to struggle, will find it difficult without Wynd dropping back in defence.

11. North - GONE

12. Carlton - Even more GONE

13. Sydney - Just can;t find a spot for them any higher, will struggle again.

14. Collingwood - Just your regulation 1 spot improvement

15. Adelaide - Will be looking for a new coach after 10 rounds

16. Eagles - Next year they could quite possibly be the worst side we've seen in the competition since Fitzroy in 1996 or Sydney in 1994. Cousins is there only footballer.

 

[Shinboners]

Okay Westy Boy, time to bring out the big guns now. The Bulldogs MUST take Ryan O'Conner or may the House of Doggies be cursed so that all their children will grow up and look like Mick Martyn on a bad day.

Yours
Shinboners

Offer only applies should the North Melbourne Football Club draft Ryan O'Conner after the Western Bulldogs have passed him over and can be withdrawn should another club draft the fat, slow, useless bastard.

 

[ptw]

this post reminds me of something I read once which said that 80% of people surveyed rated themselves as an "Above Average Driver".

About 80% of postees have their club finishing in the top 8. Often not top, or not 8th, usually from 3-6. A very respectable season showing lots of improvement, and plenty of September action.

aaahhh the eternal optimism of pre-season. We are all equal and full of hope. Until around round 5 when reality dawns. Still....keeps the membership numbers up.

ptw

 

[Paws]

jod23 - 9. Geelong - they have NO stars.

We don't want stars, exciting as they may be, unless there are 22 or more of them.

A star team is what we are after not another team of stars. A champion team will always beat a team of champions, the star status comes with that. I would say that this year with a pack of 'no stars' Geelong have managed to do a lot better than some teams with so called stars.

I see you think that was a fluke, wait and see. Many years with stars they have ended up lower or much higher and have suffered the wrath of all. Don't bloody use they have no stars now as the new 'What is wrong with Geelong' because you can't use the old cliches because they ARE different and make up a new one.

If they finish 9th or lower it sure as hell will not be because they don't have stars, but I think you may find yourself eating your words. Of course that is just my opinion, but I felt compelled to interrupt some serious grooming to reply to you, it caused a nasty furball to stick in my throat.

 

[Shinboners]

ptw

The other thing that happens is that people fall into something that's called "the confirmation trap". When assessing their teams (and other teams), people fall subconsiously into the habit of remembering evidence that supports their view while writing off or ignoring evidence that is contrary. So, for every time we remember each and every unjustiable free kick against us, we make rational excuses for why bad free kicks for us were in fact, the correct decision.

In my case, I am convinced that Shane Clayton will learn to kick straight, Shannon Grant will learn to take a contested mark, Wayne Carey will be fully fit, and Spider Burton will play four quarters per game instead of just the second quarter. So, change my tip from North finishing fourth to becoming reigning premiers

 

[ptw]

Shinboners

Indeed !!

I have a theory on this. When we watch a game and our team has the ball, then we only pay attention to the opposition to see if there is any incling of a free kick to be given away. We are watching to see our own player do something sensational, we are not watching them with a view to picking any mistake they might make.

For example (Nth v Port)...ball is bounced, tapped down by McKernan, taken by Harvey and kicked to CHF. I bet you are looking for Carey to take a mark. You are looking for Mead to jump into Carey's back or go "over the shoulder" anything really....but you are not looking for Mead to make a clean spoil, run around Carey and clear the ball.

When I watch the same piece of play I am watching for Mead to soar over the top and take a solid mark in defence. I am looking for Carey to hold on, push off, anything which might work for Port. We are both watching the same players do the same things but we have different expectations of them, and we want a different outcome, so we "see" different things. Truth is Carey pushed and held on, Mead got in his back and smacked him in the head, but we only see through 1 (black, white, silver and teal) eye.

It's why I like going to neutral games, get a whole new perspective. (Western Bulldogs v StKilda at Colonial was great). It's also good to laugh at the supporters looking through their one eye.

ptw