2002 Predictions.

[CowboyFromHell]

Sabre - Our of all the people I have come across, you have to be the most one eyed supporter I can see. Sure, tons of people here love their side more than anything, but at least they can see their faults and they can have a decent discussion about it.

On the other hand, when it comes to yourself, no-one is right except yourself. Farmer in the midfield?? He is a FORWARD, as much as the Wiz himself and everyone else would like to believe. I watched him play Port and he just looks lost in the midfield. He did when he played at Melbourne too. That's why he spent most of his time forward. Don't get me wrong, he is a sensational player who can do the magical in the midfield, but a midfield needs alot more than that and he can't give it.

Plus, while you have a half decent forward line (Croad, Longmuir), your backline stinks. Your midfield lacks depth with only Bell and Cook being anything near consistent and your team lacks depth in general.

I think Freo are an improving side, but improving to the finals?? I don't think so. 6-7 wins maybe, but no chance of 10. There are too many other sides better than them.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by ok.crows


You know nothing about Crows at all do you sabre? Not a sausage.

Schell won't be the main forward.

If Crows had no defence and no attack, how did they manage to get a percentage over 100% last year?

If Crows made 8th spot but were tipped for the spoon or close to it, how were they over-rated?

How did such a poor team manage 12 wins last season? For that matter why did Freo (finals prospect this year apparently) manage only two wins last year?

How can Crows be one of only three teams not to be defeated yet this season?


FF: Edwards Fitzgerald Welsh/Beinke
HF: Bode Stevens Burton
Dont kid yourself Schell will be your fullforward and frankly he is useless.Burton is the only real danger I see on that list, I would like to see the figures as to how many goals they each kicked last year.

Can you even name the players you so malign who might form Crows forward line and backline this year?

If Crows have no forward line, how did they kick 17 goals on Sunday?

Be interesting to hear the bull sh1t sabre tries on to answer some of these questions.

QT and or ant told me schell was ur main target

Who tipped you for the spoon apart from me??

Ive posted 100's of times as to why we failed last ear

Home games and please tell me who you played that may clear allot up, plus remeber its only pre season

You just named them for me, no names basically

Are you suggesting your forward line isnt the worst in the competition?? Once again I remeind ou its preseason

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Sabre - The Crows forward line will kick more goals than Freo in 2002 & will once again finish well above Freo on the ladder. I am happy for you to do a poll asking everyone of Bigfooty who has a better chance of making the finals - Freo or the Crows. Because Collingwood aren't involved, there should not be too much bias in the response.

The Crows backline will look something like:
Hart Bassett Bickley
Stenglein Hewitt Smart

I'm confident the Crows backline will concede less goals than Freo. We have no gun forwards, but should get an even contribution from the forwards & midfielders to win enough games to make the 8. The pre-season games have demonstrated this with no standout contributor. Certainly a more even spread of talent than Freo's forwards & midfielders.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


Who tipped you for the spoon apart from me??

Robert Walls and Mike Sheahan, amongst others....we were underrated last year you buffoon.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Sabre - The Crows forward line will kick more goals than Freo in 2002 & will once again finish well above Freo on the ladder. I am happy for you to do a poll asking everyone of Bigfooty who has a better chance of making the finals - Freo or the Crows. Because Collingwood aren't involved, there should not be too much bias in the response.

The Crows backline will look something like:
Hart Bassett Bickley
Stenglein Hewitt Smart

I'm confident the Crows backline will concede less goals than Freo. We have no gun forwards, but should get an even contribution from the forwards & midfielders to win enough games to make the 8. The pre-season games have demonstrated this with no standout contributor. Certainly a more even spread of talent than Freo's forwards & midfielders.

That is my point all the most sucessfull clubs in the league have at least one standout forward.On player that is able to rip games apart, one player that is going to kick over 50 goals one season.
The fact that so much reliance for goal kicking rests on the shoulders of the crows midfield is not healthy.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


QT and or ant told me schell was ur main target

Who tipped you for the spoon apart from me??

Ive posted 100's of times as to why we failed last ear

Home games and please tell me who you played that may clear allot up, plus remeber its only pre season

You just named them for me, no names basically

Are you suggesting your forward line isnt the worst in the competition?? Once again I remeind ou its preseason

Schell will not be the main forward marking target. I think he will be in the forward setup maybe, but as the third target.


It will be something like:
FF: Bode Fitzgerald Schell/Bienke
HF: Burton Stevens Welsh

In the preseason Crows have played and beat Brisbane at the Gabba and Saints at Footy Park. One home game of two for two wins (which is more than Freo BTW). Saints did well in their first game and were reasonable opposition. Brisbane were undermanned.

Crows have got 14 goals and 17 goals in two games. Even last year when Crows played in a large number of low scoring games Crows "points for" tally was not high - but it was higher than four other sides. Crows got a percentage of 102% - which means Crows forwards outscored the aggregate of opposition sides they played.

So no, Crows forward line (even last year) was not the worst in the competition by a long way. And just to remind you and emphasise the point, Crows forward line was far and away better than Freos last year, and is doing better than freos is this year.

For some of your other queries - Robert Walls & other crony journalists tipped Crows for the spoon last year and Ayres as the first coach to be sacked (of course they were wrong - it was Freo and Drum who took those two honours).

Sabre just because you don't recognise names doesn't mean they are no names or non-performers. For example, Welsh got 47 goals in 2000. Stevens was runner-up in Crows B&F and leading mark-taker at Crows and Crows are a final 8 side.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Schell will not be the main forward marking target. I think he will be in the forward setup maybe, but as the third target.


It will be something like:
FF: Bode Fitzgerald Schell/Bienke
HF: Burton Stevens Welsh

In the preseason Crows have played and beat Brisbane at the Gabba and Saints at Footy Park. One home game of two for two wins (which is more than Freo BTW). Saints did well in their first game and were reasonable opposition. Brisbane were undermanned.

Crows have got 14 goals and 17 goals in two games. Even last year when Crows played in a large number of low scoring games Crows "points for" tally was not high - but it was higher than four other sides. Crows got a percentage of 102% - which means Crows forwards outscored the aggregate of opposition sides they played.

So no, Crows forward line (even last year) was not the worst in the competition by a long way. And just to remind you and emphasise the point, Crows forward line was far and away better than Freos last year, and is doing better than freos is this year.

For some of your other queries - Robert Walls & other crony journalists tipped Crows for the spoon last year and Ayres as the first coach to be sacked (of course they were wrong - it was Freo and Drum who took those two honours).

Sabre just because you don't recognise names doesn't mean they are no names or non-performers. For example, Welsh got 47 goals in 2000. Stevens was runner-up in Crows B&F and leading mark-taker at Crows and Crows are a final 8 side.

LOL the fact that your puting your hat on defeating the lions at the gabba says your reading way too much into it.The lions are the premire side, in teh real season playing them at the gabba most teams wouldnt come close to them, specially the crows.


Do me a favour and forget about season 200 for a second.Please tell me how many goals your 6 main forwards kicked in season 2001.Without the likes of jarman, your forward is extremely light on.The fact you can claim that it isnt the weakest in the league is beyond me.At least the eagles have the likes of Phil Matera.

 

[ant]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


LOL the fact that your puting your hat on defeating the lions at the gabba says your reading way too much into it.The lions are the premire side, in teh real season playing them at the gabba most teams wouldnt come close to them, specially the crows.

Well, last year in the real season we came close to them, or should that be, they came close to us??

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


LOL the fact that your puting your hat on defeating the lions at the gabba says your reading way too much into it.The lions are the premire side, in teh real season playing them at the gabba most teams wouldnt come close to them, specially the crows.


Do me a favour and forget about season 200 for a second.Please tell me how many goals your 6 main forwards kicked in season 2001.Without the likes of jarman, your forward is extremely light on.The fact you can claim that it isnt the weakest in the league is beyond me.At least the eagles have the likes of Phil Matera.

Actually sabre Crows beat Lions at the Gabba in the real season last season. They were the one and only side to do that. After that loss to Crows, Lions went on to win their next 16 games and take the flag, a run of wins that has only just been broken ... at the Gabba by the Crows!

So up yours sabre.

I repeat for the simple minded - Crows forward line is by no means the weakest in the AFL. Last season it achieved a score to yeild a percentage of 102%. That is, Crows forward line did better than the opponents forward lines did.

Hint here for the terminally stupid sabre - Crows forwards couldn't do that if they were the worst in the league.

This year so far, Crows forward line is producing scores to yeild a percentage of 120%. And doing that without the two key position forwards playing as yet.

These are the plain facts sabre. Deal with them.

So tell me sabre, what did Freos oh-so-fantastic forward line achieve?

 

[ok.crows]

Yet again a reminder for sabre_ac just to remind you and emphasise the point, Crows forward line was far and away better than Freos last year, and is doing better than freos is this year.

Feel free to utter something any time soon sabre. Just dribble it out mate!

We will all be wonderfully amused once again I'm sure.

Perhaps we can lay odds on sabre ever getting anything right? Naaah ... not feasible. No one would ever collect.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by kaysee


1) Port - to continue the form from last year using the finals disaster as motivation and getting Lade back.

2) Richmond - Suprise team... finally have a good run with injuries and Ottens has a corker of a year.

3) Brisbane - best home ground advantage in the league will seem them end up high.

4) Hawthorn - Will improve more this year.

5) Essendon - Yep will slip a little loosing their invincability tag... will be exploited in their very crap in the Ruck.

6) Collingwood - Getting better under Malthouse... have youth and experience over the ground.

7) Sydney - Locket and Hall combo will be hard to combat.

8) Carlton - Their stars will keep them in the 8 but not see them much further.

9) Northern Kangaroos - Carey playing most games wont be enough for this aging team.

10) Adelaide - Midfield will again show glimpses of brillence but forwards and defenders are suspect.

11) St Kilda - Get slightly better and will be stable for the year.

12) Fremantle - Will improve but not by much... must start winning a few at home.

13) Melbourne - Good midfield but not much elsewhere.

14) Geelong - Don't seem to have the cattle

15) Western Bulldogs - Almost the same list as past years... how long can Wallis flog a dead horse.

16) West Coast - Crap player depth ... will be exploited again by even a few injuries. No forwards.

There is no way in the world the Western Bulldogs will come fifteenth. Last year we had a lot of off field problems and still managed to finish tenth, we are not going to drop 5 places this year.
There is no way a side with Grant (assuming he plays, which he will), West, Johnson, Darcy, Smith and Brown will finish fifteenth. For starters you say Geelong don't have the cattle but you have them ahead of us, IMO we have a far better list then Geelongs.
I also find it hard to see St Kilda or Freo finishing ahead of us.

Don't be surprised if we make the eight, every year we finish. higher then most people predict.

 

[sabre_ac]

Originally posted by ok.crows


Actually sabre Crows beat Lions at the Gabba in the real season last season. They were the one and only side to do that. After that loss to Crows, Lions went on to win their next 16 games and take the flag, a run of wins that has only just been broken ... at the Gabba by the Crows!

So up yours sabre.

I repeat for the simple minded - Crows forward line is by no means the weakest in the AFL. Last season it achieved a score to yeild a percentage of 102%. That is, Crows forward line did better than the opponents forward lines did.

Hint here for the terminally stupid sabre - Crows forwards couldn't do that if they were the worst in the league.

This year so far, Crows forward line is producing scores to yeild a percentage of 120%. And doing that without the two key position forwards playing as yet.

These are the plain facts sabre. Deal with them.

So tell me sabre, what did Freos oh-so-fantastic forward line achieve?

Last year you had jarman this year you dont.
Just one player?? Yes
Does he make all the difference to a already weak forward line??You bet
I ask again show me figures on how many goals your forwards kicked, please include jarman in these figures.

Freos forward line was weak last year, hence why we traded to fix that, hence why we have.
Its preseason please dont get ahead of yourself.

No need for the sarcasim and snide remarks, by all means keep it up.Ill just bother talking to the less sarcastic ie Ant and the other supporters.

O and I await those figures as its the 3rd time I have asked.

 

[mantis]

Sabre

This saturday could be interesting, you have Farmer out & we might have Hird & Hille, looking forward to the match.

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by sabre_ac


Last year you had jarman this year you dont.
Just one player?? Yes
Does he make all the difference to a already weak forward line??You bet
I ask again show me figures on how many goals your forwards kicked, please include jarman in these figures.

Freos forward line was weak last year, hence why we traded to fix that, hence why we have.
Its preseason please dont get ahead of yourself.

No need for the sarcasim and snide remarks, by all means keep it up.Ill just bother talking to the less sarcastic ie Ant and the other supporters.

O and I await those figures as its the 3rd time I have asked.

Sabre I have not been sarcastic. Sarcasm is where you state the opposite of a thing to emphasise your view that the reality is different. As in "That is real real good" emphasis on the good meaning actually it is a bad thing.

So I wasn't sarcastic. I straight out insulted you mate! Why should I not when you LOL over the possibility of Adelaide beating Brisbane at the Gabba in the real season when that is EXACTLY what they did do? I mean how more can you set yourself up than that? You were positively begging for a dressing down on that one.

With your comment that Adelaide has the weakest forward line in the league, I have no doubt whatsoever that your poor little head is getting all befuddled from comments last year that Adelaid had the weakest forward line of the finalists. That is true. Every other final 8 team had better points for and better percentage than Crows did last year.

But sabre that is a long long way from having the weakest forward line in the league. One day when you grow up you may start to be able to figure these things out for yourself.

Jarman is a loss no doubt about it - but you should know that he got 38 goals for Crows last year and that is by no means impossible, or even difficult, to replace. For example Welsh did a better job (47 goals) in 2000 than Jarman did in 2001 in that same position. Welsh may well go back to that position this year.

Other figures? Don't have them hand but I can give you approximates. In 2001 Welsh was played in the midfield, Vardy & Jarman forward so Welsh did not have the same goalscoring opportunity - he got about 18 goals. Likewise Stevens played most games at CHB and only about 5 games forward - he got 21 goals. Burton played 15 games more than half on the wing - he got about 15 goals. Fitzgerald did not play last year - in his first 3 games at Swans the year before he got 11 goals but from then on was injured.

Apart from Stevens and possibly Fitzgerald there is no standout multiple goalscorer. That means that the scoring is spread around. There is no main focus, no single point of failure. Crows also get a lot of goals from midfielders - Ricciuto, McLeod, Johnson, Edwards, Goodwin etc all chip in with a goal per game.

BTW for this year the scoring has been - Schell 3 goals each game. Burton 3 goals each game. Bienke 2 and 1. Welsh 4 and 2. McLeod, Roo, Doughty, Edwards, Goodwin, Johnson all chipping in as well.

Instead of one or two getting 4 or 5 goals, Crows have 3 getting 3 and one getting 1.5 goals and a great many singles so far. See? Spread it around. Makes it much harder to stop that way.

As Kane Mc posted earlier Sabre - The Crows forward line will kick more goals than Freo in 2002 & will once again finish well above Freo on the ladder. . I concur totally. It is a shoe in.

 

[Malibu#27]

I'm not a Crows supporter, and I wouldn't normally get involved, but listening to the ignorant and completely self indulgent bleatings of our friendly Fremantle supporter prompted me to stick up for our cross town rivals.

Below are some statistics that I have pulled from afl.0catch.com/afl/stats/2001.html

I have included all double figured goals scorers for both the Crows and Fremantle.


ADELAIDE
Games Goals Behinds
Jarman, D 20 40 17
McLeod, A 23 29 27
Ricciuto, M 23 27 20
Welsh, S 18 22 12
Stevens, M 22 21 8
Vardy, P 16 18 21
Goodwin, S 23 16 11
Johnson, K 18 15 6
Perrie, I 14 15 16
Burton, B 14 14 8
Edwards, T 23 12 16
Beinke, B 9 12 8
---------------------------------------

Total goals kicked: 304
Total points kicked: 248

Total scoring shots: 552

Total score for: 2072

Jarman and Vardy contribution: 58-38-386 ... or %18.6 of total score


FREMANTLE
Games Goals Behinds
Bell, P 19 14 10
Cook, T 22 14 13
McManus, S 22 11 14
Hasleby, P 20 14 15
Pavlich, M 21 28 17
Longmuir, J 22 28 13
Bandy, D 17 11 10
Modra, A 11 27 15
Koops, S 9 10 5
Waterhouse, C 6 10 11
Schell, D 12 10 13
---------------------------------------

Total goals kicked: 258
Total points kicked: 194

Total scoring shots: 452

Total score for: 1742

Modra and Schell contribution: 37-28-250 ... or %14.4 of total score


From this its pretty obvious that Adelaides forward line was more potent last year. young Mr Sabre insists that Adelaide are losing 58 goals with the losses of Jarman and Vardy, he must also note that Fremantle lose 37 goals from Modra and Schell.... from a side that managed 55 goals less than Adelaide last year..... this is roughly equivalent to the contributions of Vardy and Jarman. Add to that the fact that Stevens will play forward for more than 2 or 3 games this year, and the return from injury of goalsneak Bode, and throw in the signings of Schell, Fitzgerald etc, and I'd suggest the Crows will kick around the same score as last season.

I'd suggest that Fremantle will probably improve their points for this season marginally, but their biggest problem is that their supposed superstar midfield was second only to West Coast in terms of least number of entries inside 50. They have to get the ball inside 50 more often if they want to increase their scoring potential.

I'm not a huge one for stats, as I dont beleive they can ever tell the whole story, but sabre wanted stats to keep him warm at night so I've given him some.

One final point - watching Fremantle play Port on Saturday night their forward line looked pretty ordinary to me, and they only seemed to be able to score when Port would take its foot off the pedal, so there's a fair bit of work still to be done.

 

[-GB-]

Here's my grudge:

WHY DOES EVERY SECOND THREAD END UP BEING A DISCUSSION ON THE ADELAIDE CROWS???

I AM ABSOLUTELY SICK TO DEATH OF IT!!!

EVERYTHING THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT, HAS ALREADY BEEN ARGUED BACK AND FORTH AT NAUSEUM FOR THE LAST 3 MONTHS!!

I feel better now that everything is off my chest.

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by -GB-
Here's my grudge:

WHY DOES EVERY SECOND THREAD END UP BEING A DISCUSSION ON THE ADELAIDE CROWS???

I AM ABSOLUTELY SICK TO DEATH OF IT!!!

EVERYTHING THAT YOU WRITE ABOUT, HAS ALREADY BEEN ARGUED BACK AND FORTH AT NAUSEUM FOR THE LAST 3 MONTHS!!

I feel better now that everything is off my chest.

ok.crows has a fair bit to do with it I think.

 

[kaysee]

Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes


Thats one of the reasons, heres a few others:

1) Essendon 5th? Pfffft, i doubt it. They may lack a quality ruckman(not that Alessio is a poor player either), but the rest of their team makes up for it.

I just think other teams aren't as intimidated by them any more. They appear to be slow (footspeed wise not ball movement wise), they are relying on Salmon to save them in the ruck and I don't think they have that same desire anymore because the whole conutry has been telling them how good they are for the last 3-4 years.

2)Richmond 2nd. Sure they have a strong team, but no way in hell are they stronger than Brisbane, Essendon or Hawthorn.

No I don't believe they are overall stronger but I think things will just fall into place for them this year. ala what happened to Bradbury at the olympics... not the strongest skater but everything fell into place for him.

3) Freo 12th. They recruit a handful of established forwards and suddenly they will improve from 2 wins to 8 (give or take a few). Please tell me who is going to deliver the ball to the forwards? The magical all-positional croad?

They were a bit unlucky last year losing quite a few games by less then 10 points... this year I think they will turn a few of these type of games around from narrow losses to narrow wins.

Then there's the reasons he/she gave:

Kangaroos: The "one man team" theory comes back, despite the fact that the roos have proven time and again that they can win without Carey.

Definitaly a he

Wasn't saying Kangaroos are a 1 man team but they appear to rely on alot of older top heavy types like Carey, Rocca, Archer and McCartney.

Melbourne: Not much elsewhere? Let me just redirect you to CowboyFromHell's post.

West Coast: Crap player depth, hey? Wirrpunda, Cousins, Kerr, Banfield, Braun, Pe.Matera, Fletcher, Taylor, Judd, Read, Jones, Morrison and Chambers are our midfielders. I won't bore you with other positional lists, but let me assure you we don't lack depth anywhere other then the forward line.

Both of these teams are in the same boat... they have some great top line players but when you look at say players 10-30 they don't stack up too well against the players 10-30 in better teams in the AFL.

Remember these are all just personal opinons and I believe in my reasons behind them... of course many others will not. I try to be honest and don't particularly dislike any team above others and wish all teams/players the best for the year.


SKC

P.S. - I have been around long enough to know a 'little' about football.

 

[JUBJUB]

Originally posted by mantis
Sabre

This saturday could be interesting, you have Farmer out & we might have Hird & Hille, looking forward to the match.

But you may have Salmon.
So it looks like Freo may now win.

 

[kaysee]

Re: Re: 2002 Predictions.

Originally posted by Bulldog1954


There is no way in the world the Western Bulldogs will come fifteenth. Last year we had a lot of off field problems and still managed to finish tenth, we are not going to drop 5 places this year.
There is no way a side with Grant (assuming he plays, which he will), West, Johnson, Darcy, Smith and Brown will finish fifteenth. For starters you say Geelong don't have the cattle but you have them ahead of us, IMO we have a far better list then Geelongs.
I also find it hard to see St Kilda or Freo finishing ahead of us.

Don't be surprised if we make the eight, every year we finish. higher then most people predict.

You're right in that Bulldogs list does appear to be stronger... but I think Wallace has been there for so long now his influence on the players is getting stale... where as even though Geelong's list might not be as good they still have a pretty fresh coach who I think can get more out of his players.

Obviously I don't think you can make the 8 but you keep believing that ... that is what makes a true supporter ... always believing in their club.

All the best
SKC

 

[Portia]

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Port 01 - No luck is the AFL progrsamming your team to play Freo at home in a pre-season cup to boost your percentage to ensure you make the semi-finals.

What, like taking on Essendon at home is meant to lose us percentage?

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by sabre_ac

Dont kid yourself Schell will be your fullforward and frankly he is useless.Burton is the only real danger I see on that list, I would like to see the figures as to how many goals they each kicked last year.

haha. How much more arrogant can you get?? How the hell do you know Schell will be the crows full forward this year? Once fitzgerald and stevens come back he wont get a game. In a matter of days youve gone from having 'an average knowledge of the opposition' to telling a crows supporter exactly what his team line up will be

Once again I remeind ou its preseason

haha, says he who reckons Trent Croad has 'turned the corner' because he has kicked 8 goals in 2 of these preseason games.

Try and keep your views consistent sabre.

 

[Captain Random]

Originally posted by -GB-
Here's my grudge:

WHY DOES EVERY SECOND THREAD END UP BEING A DISCUSSION ON THE ADELAIDE CROWS???

Argh, just what we need - another rec.sport.football.adelaide

 

[Portia]

If every second post is about the crows, every second post is about Essendon, every second post is about Collingwood and every second post is about Port, does this mean that BigFooty exists in multiple realities?

 

[ok.crows]

Originally posted by Blues2001


ok.crows has a fair bit to do with it I think.

I had a quick look at the AFL board front page as it appears to me. On every thread where I have posted a black mark appears in the icon for that thread. This mark is on 4 icons out of 25.

That is just 4 threads out of 25 where I have had anything at all to say about the topic.