Draft Review 2005 - Redo the 2005 Draft

[Upgrayedd]

I don't mind the Douglas pick at 9, heavily Under-rated

Varcoe however...

 

[Bailey01]

I don't mind the Douglas pick at 9, heavily Under-rated

Varcoe however...

Yeah I'll change that.
10. Matt Priddis

 

[timtamWB]

Look mate I couldn't give a **** about other teams wanting those players. Douglas is a criminally underrated player, if he was playing for a victorian team he would be getting the hype. Priddis would not go high in this draft because he is so un versatile and cannot play another role. Clark hasn't done shit. I think Varcoe has proven a lot so far with his crumbing goals and forward pressure.

I can buy the Douglas selection, that's alright. He is very underrated, obviously some bias creeping in but he deserves his place.

Varcoe on the other hand, doesn't. Your reasoning is "forward pressure, crumbing goals and a premiership player?" Premiership player means nothing for individual rankings. Ryder has won a few games off his own boot, Varcoe hasn't. Ryder easily gets in the top 10. Kieren Jack comes in at 3 if you include him, I haven't in this one.

0. Matt Spangher
1. Pendlebury
2. Murphy
3. Thomas
4. Birchall
5. Kennedy
6. Swallow
7. Ryder
8. Jones
9. Stokes
10. Priddis
11. Douglas
12. Hurn
13. Dempsey
14. Clark
15. Gilbert

 

[WWSD]

The Swans initially drafted Jonathan Simpkin in the 2005 rookie draft. Fast forward Seven years later and he's a Premiership player.


1. Scott Pendlebury
2. Marc Murphy
3. Kieren Jack
4. Josh Kennedy
5. Grant Birchall
6. Andrew Swallow
7. Dale Thomas
8. Nathan Jones
9. Mitch Clark
10. Matthew Priddis

 

[Big Fresh]

1. Scott Pendlebury
2. Kieren Jack
3. Josh J. Kennedy
4. Marc Murphy
5. Dale Thomas
6. Grant Birchall
7. Patrick Ryder
8. Andrew Swallow
9. Nathan Jones
10. Mathew Stokes

 

[Wild Bill]

1. Scott Pendlebury
2. Kieren Jack
3. Josh J. Kennedy
4. Marc Murphy
5. Patrick Ryder
6. Dale Thomas
7. Grant Birchall
8. Andrew Swallow
9. Nathan Jones
10. Mathew Stokes

How does Ryder end up at 5?? Especially in front of Swallow. Spitta is super consistent, B&F winner and gives his all each times he runs out. Ryder has more talent but is lazy and as far as I can see has only finished 9th in your B&F - which shows his consistency is poor.

Give me the hard worker over the lazy talent any day.

 

[Bailey01]

How does Ryder end up at 5?? Especially in front of Swallow. Spitta is super consistent, B&F winner and gives his all each times he runs out. Ryder has more talent but is lazy and as far as I can see has only finished 9th in your B&F - which shows his consistency is poor.

Give me the hard worker over the lazy talent any day.

Grant Birchall should be in front of Ryder as well

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Ryder shouldnt be any where near the top 10

 

[Wild Bill]

Grant Birchall should be in front of Ryder as well

100% he should be - as well as Thomas who has played at a higher level but like Ryder lacks consistency.


Also Nathan Jones - in a decent side he would be rated higher. Super consistent perform that is similar to Swallow and gives his all.

 

[Big Fresh]

100% he should be - as well as Thomas who has played at a higher level but like Ryder lacks consistency.


Also Nathan Jones - in a decent side he would be rated higher. Super consistent perform that is similar to Swallow and gives his all.

I'll concede Birchall actually. Would still definitely take Ryder over Swallow and Jones though.

 

[Wild Bill]

I'll concede Birchall actually. Would still definitely take Ryder over Swallow and Jones though.

Based on what?

 

[Jobe Watson]

How does Ryder end up at 5?? Especially in front of Swallow. Spitta is super consistent, B&F winner and gives his all each times he runs out. Ryder has more talent but is lazy and as far as I can see has only finished 9th in your B&F - which shows his consistency is poor.

4th in 2009.

 

[Big Fresh]

Based on what?

Ryder has a massive leap, superb tapwork, is second only to Naitanui at ground level, and he steps up at big moments. Consistency is an issue, and I believe he's yet to hit his peak. He was nowhere near good enough in the forward line this year but his work in the ruck and in the packs was underrated. Also he's versatile - can play back, forward (ineffectively so this year, but in the past he's done alright there) and in the ruck, and would likely have the speed and agility to play on the wing. Not many other ruckmen can run and carry like he can - Naitanui's the only one that springs to mind.

 

[Wild Bill]

4th in 2009.

4 disappointing years followed if 9th is his best result. Maybe Thompson can help improve his consistency.

To date would you have Ryder higher in this draft than Swallow?

 

[Jobe Watson]

4 disappointing years followed if 9th is his best result. Maybe Thompson can help improve his consistency.

To date would you have Ryder higher in this draft than Swallow?

Ryder struggles for consistency and has to share the load with Bellchambers, but at his best he's a top quality ruckman.

No.

 

[Wild Bill]

Ryder struggles for consistency and has to share the load with Bellchambers, but at his best he's a top quality ruckman.

No.

No doubt his best is up there with the best in the comp. I have seen him do some things that are unbelievable - the banana’s from 50 are incredible. He has also smashed Cloke when played CHB, bags of 4 goals in a couple of games and high 40 hit outs. But the lapses in form and quiet games hurt - single figure disposals for how good he is disappointing.

Swallow is nearly the opposite - very little in the highlight real but his poor games are still good. I would take the consistent performer every time. Ryder gets it together he could be top 5 but not at the moment. As a ruckman he has time.

 

[Jobe Watson]

No doubt his best is up there with the best in the comp. I have seem he do some things that is unbelievable - the banana’s from 50 are incredible. He has also smashed Cloke when played CHB, bags of 4 goals in a couple of games and high 40 hit outs. But the lapses in form and quiet games hurt - single figure disposals for how good he is disappointing.

Swallow is nearly the opposite - very little in the highlight real but his poor games are still good. I would take the consistent performer every time. Ryder gets it together he could be top 5 but not at the moment. As a ruckman he has time.

When Ryder is playing well he's one of the best all-round, even ruckman. Good tap work, good disposal, good around the ground, can play forward and kick goals, can play defense on the odd occasion where it is required. He won't play that like every week though. He'll have good games and he'll have bad games, and that's probably how it will be for the entirety of his career. I'm not sure if he'll ever be a Dean Cox-type that can play at 95% each and every game.

 

[Big Fresh]

I really like the combination of Ryder and Bellchambers in the ruck, each getting 20 hitouts and a goal. But in my honest opinion Bellchambers needs to do a Mitch Clark and become a full time Full Forward, kick 60 goals and not worry about rucking. That would instantly improve Essendons forward line. But the question is can Ryder be a stand alone ruckman? Is he capable of consitantly getting 35 hitouts a game? Bellchambers is already a proven forward with his 5 goals against Port and 4 goals against Dees. Bellchambers would a forward of the rarest kind. A 200cm monster like Clark and Tippet. And ryder would be an uncommon 195cm athletic ruckman machine.

I completely agree. Ryder tends to do better when he has more responsibility - it's much easier for him to go missing from a game when he's sitting in the forward line - and Bellchambers is a much better forward.

 

[yaco55]

I'll concede Birchall actually. Would still definitely take Ryder over Swallow and Jones though.

Give up while you are ahead.

Swallow is a fair way ahead of Ryder.

 

[Mitchell54]

I don't mind the Douglas pick at 9, heavily Under-rated

Varcoe however...

Douglas is the man that can keep a midfield together and steps up when you need him too. He really damaged hawthorn when we played Adelaide this year.

 

[Mitchell54]

I can buy the Douglas selection, that's alright. He is very underrated, obviously some bias creeping in but he deserves his place.

Varcoe on the other hand, doesn't. Your reasoning is "forward pressure, crumbing goals and a premiership player?" Premiership player means nothing for individual rankings. Ryder has won a few games off his own boot, Varcoe hasn't. Ryder easily gets in the top 10. Kieren Jack comes in at 3 if you include him, I haven't in this one.

0. Matt Spangher
1. Pendlebury
2. Murphy
3. Thomas
4. Birchall
5. Kennedy
6. Swallow
7. Ryder
8. Jones
9. Stokes
10. Priddis
11. Douglas
12. Hurn
13. Dempsey
14. Clark
15. Gilbert

SPANGHER!!

 

[Upgrayedd]

I'll concede Birchall actually. Would still definitely take Ryder over Swallow and Jones though.

Birchall has been consistantly and quietly elite for 3 seasons now, I know the homer situation with Ryder where he still has potential and all but Swallow/Jones have been again, Elite at what they do, Ryder has shown flashes of what he can do, played some good consistant football, but if we're taking into account of what they could potentially do and a flash of brilliance Mitch Clark would be top 5

 

[Red Black and Blue]

and Bellchambers is a much better forward.

I disagree with this, Bellchambers is a better goal kicker, not a better forward. Bellchambers dominates when the ball is kicked directly on top of him. Though he constantly gets exposed on the lead and provides practically no second efforts at the ball and his opponent often clears the ball unpressured. Ryder while not as natural with his positioning, often gets involved in scoring plays and assists, follows up with tackles and defensive pressure.

 

[Big Fresh]

I disagree with this, Bellchambers is a better goal kicker, not a better forward. Bellchambers dominates when the ball is kicked directly on top of him. Though he constantly gets exposed on the lead and provides practically no second efforts at the ball and his opponent often clears the ball unpressured. Ryder while not as natural with his positioning, often gets involved in scoring plays and assists, follows up with tackles and defensive pressure.

I think TBC's contested marking ability is good enough to compensate for his deficiencies, and given where the rest of our forward line is at, with Hurley being good at chasing and contesting but no good at goal kicking and Daniher being unable to convert a set shot, a goal kicker is especially valuable, and Bellchambers is our best. Ryder's an outstanding shot on goal but 13 shots for the season is unacceptable. He was completely ineffectual (apart from in some big moments against Freo and Carlton) when he went forward. In the ruck he was playing extremely well. I would certainly prefer to have Bellchambers forward more of the time, especially if Hurley stays forward so we have a target who can take a mark and kick straight. Ryder's positioning in the forward line and pack marking was not up to standard, at least not in 2013.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I don't disagree that Ryder needs to kick more goals, but there is a reason Bellchambers got dropped mid year. IMO we concede way more genuine chances through opposition counter attacks then goals Bellchambers kicks.