2007: Draft or Trade?

[Hells K1tch3n]

Hey guys, firstly i think we've been great this year, the young guys have really come on and the mid-tier players have stepped up accordingly. i have two questions for magpie fans out there, 1) who is in our best 22 right now on form if no-one was injured? I ask this becuase there will probably be a few changes to the team in the next month, the young guys are playing really well, but we have to keep the balance right.

For mine, in terms of balance and a team that is capable of winning a flag:

FB: Clement, Presti, Racer

HB: Heater, Obrian, Moneybags

C: Lonie: Obree, Swan

HF: Didak, T.Cloke, Sparky

FF: Buckley, Rocca, Davis

Foll: Fraser, Lockyer, Pendles

Int: Burns, BJ, Clarke, Maxwell

I am a little worried about only having one ruckman, but bryan nor richards deserve a spot in the team.

Looking at that, it might take out the flag, but im not expecting it.

It also has the problem in that its missing a young extractor, and we will still need a proper ruckman to compliment fraser.

I think there are some quite good rucks around that might be interested in movign to a list that requires a ruck to step up and be a top contributor.

Meesan from the crows, johnson or jamar from melbourne, wood from brisbane.

Should we trade away our picks, or continue to build from the bottom up?

 

[Hard Yakka]

Draft, always draft!

 

[Hadders]

If you build it they will come.

They being premierships.

 

[boom crash opera]

FB: Clement, Presti, Racer

HB: Heater, Obrian, Moneybags

C: Lonie: Obree, Swan

HF: Didak, T.Cloke, Sparky

FF: Buckley, Rocca, Davis

Foll: Fraser, Lockyer, Pendles

Int: Burns, BJ, Clarke, Maxwell

All will be gone in near future.

I could see (without newcomers) 2009:

backs- Clement? (stanley) Maxwell Obrien
h/backs- H.Shaw N.Brown Goldsack
Centre- Swan Davis Clarke
h/forwards- Didak Cloke B.Johnson
Forwards- Rusling Rocca? (Reid) Holland
Rucks- Fraser Thomas Pendlebury
Bench- Reid Stanley R.Shaw R.Cook

Rocca and Clement could be gone but good depth answers that.

 

[Barwick17]

This year has stood out more than dogs balls that we need a hard inside clearance player (eg cross, west, mitchell) to get some clear clearances, instead of the quick no look kicks. Burns does fantastic but he is it and only has a year or so left. Throw the kitchen sink at one of these players while our kids develop instead of a high pick on meeson who has done sfa

 

[Dundalis]

I think Heath Shaw could be the player. Does anyone see any similarities between his career and that of Burns? Burns was a half back flanker for a number of years before moving into midfield. Heath has even more potential as a midfielder because of his pace.

 

[Barwick17]

I think Heath Shaw could be the player. Does anyone see any similarities between his career and that of Burns? Burns was a half back flanker for a number of years before moving into midfield. Heath has even more potential as a midfielder because of his pace.

I see your point. Does he have the quick hands/in and under play that burns has though?? Not sure he does, and his judgement is the backline is superior to burns', almost best in comp

 

[Hadders]

I think Heath Shaw could be the player. Does anyone see any similarities between his career and that of Burns? Burns was a half back flanker for a number of years before moving into midfield. Heath has even more potential as a midfielder because of his pace.

Great call.

Definitely see the similarities between Burns and Shaw so far in their careers. Give him a couple more pre-seasons to build up his stamina and Heater could well be the answer to any shortcomings in this department.

 

[Dundalis]

FB: Clement, Presti, Racer

HB: Heater, Obrian, Moneybags

C: Lonie: Obree, Swan

HF: Didak, T.Cloke, Sparky

FF: Buckley, Rocca, Davis

Foll: Fraser, Lockyer, Pendles

Int: Burns, BJ, Clarke, Maxwell

All will be gone in near future.

I could see (without newcomers) 2009:

backs- Clement? (stanley) Maxwell Obrien
h/backs- H.Shaw N.Brown Goldsack
Centre- Swan Davis Clarke
h/forwards- Didak Cloke B.Johnson
Forwards- Rusling Rocca? (Reid) Holland
Rucks- Fraser Thomas Pendlebury
Bench- Reid Stanley R.Shaw R.Cook

Rocca and Clement could be gone but good depth answers that.

I'd replace Maxwell with Anthony and Stanley or Rusling with Dawes.

 

[Dundalis]

I see your point. Does he have the quick hands/in and under play that burns has though?? Not sure he does, and his judgement is the backline is superior to burns', almost best in comp

The only way to find out is to play him in there. I've seen him however numerous times pick the ball off the deck in amongst a crowd of players in the backline and dish off a quick accurate handball. I think he would be just as much of a star in the midfield as he would in the backline. I think we'd also see more of his potential as a goal kicker as well, he looks great when he bombs forward and kicks goals which we haven't seen enough of this season due to his defensive responsibilities which have increased with the absence of Clement and Presti.

There's no doubt that he is the best small defender in the comp. But if we need an in and under midfielder and he can play that role for us as brilliantly as he plays as a defender I think he would be more valuable particularly as I said with his ability to kick goals. We aren't lacking talented young defenders, the likes of O'Brien, Goldsack and Anthony when he comes back can play on talls and smalls because of their pace. As Anthony and Brown come through we are going to have a lot of options down there. But when Burns and Licuria step out of the game we won't have anyone to replace them. Pendles is a good extractor but isn't a pure inside mid. Thomas has a ways to go before he can think about taking up that role. Stanley is the other one, but has a long way to go to even get a spot in the side.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I'd be looking at Meesen, Wood, Moran, Warnock and Laycock. If we could get any of those guys without selling the farm, I'd say "go for it". All depends on the price though.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Moran for me. Meesen also possibly. If Laycock was available it would be good but expensive.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We still lack a couple of midfielders - one hard insider and one lightning quick runner. We should draft there.

We also lack a quality ruck or two. We should trade for one and draft another. Our best trade bait is Lonie Richards Holland and Rusling.

Apart from that we're ok - as long as most of our quality kids continue to imrpove.

 

[Frederlick]

Draft, always draft!

It is such a no brainer that I wonder why it is even mentioned sometimes. Have a look at what the draft has thrown up now that the recruiters have got their scheizen in one sock and what the trade deals have given us. Clement is about it as far as trades go and that is a once in a lifetime break anyway. With the facilities and resources the Club has now they are much better off building a young footy player from scratch than getting someones retread.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Draft.

 

[hellfire]

I want Foley and Charman.

Realistically, drafting is the better option. But in a draft that is being called weak, perhaps this is the time to look for a good trade?

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I want Foley and Charman.

Realistically, drafting is the better option. But in a draft that is being called weak, perhaps this is the time to look for a good trade?

As long as it doesn't break the youth policy, yeah.

 

[hellfire]

As long as it doesn't break the youth policy, yeah.

Foley is only turning 22.... get him.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Drafting and trading aren't mutually exclusive. We should do both. Trade for a decent ready-made ruckman, but try to do so using dispensable players/and or an exchange of draft picks. That way, we're not trading ourselves out of the draft.

 

[Hells K1tch3n]

It seems most are in agreeance that we need a clearance specialist and a back up ruckman. Id approach Melbourne, they have both of these and would love to make a play at Judd at years end, which they'll need another 1st rounder to even be a chance.

Our 1st rounder and lonie-> Melbourne
Moloney and either jamar or johnson -> Collingwood

or try and get a 3 way deal going with west coast

Judd -> Melb
Moloney and either Jamar or Johnson -> Collingwood
Coll and Melb 1st round picks, Lonie and Melbs 2nd round pick -> West Coast.

We could then look at swapping rusling for meeson to sure up our ruck division as our forwardline is chockers at the moment with Trav, Dawes, Reid, Rocca for 3ish years, bucks maybe another, didak, leon, cook, thomas, ect...

 

[HFF]

Draft all the way! Forget trade unless its upgrading our picks at a reasonable cost or pursuing Chris Judd-(if he declares he wants to come back to victoria). Use the PSD if Hine feels there is someone worth looking at or taking, otherwise stick to the process and do it on our own via draft.

 

[Brahma Bull]

It seems most are in agreeance that we need a clearance specialist and a back up ruckman. Id approach Melbourne, they have both of these and would love to make a play at Judd at years end, which they'll need another 1st rounder to even be a chance.

Our 1st rounder and lonie-> Melbourne
Moloney and either jamar or johnson -> Collingwood

or try and get a 3 way deal going with west coast

Judd -> Melb
Moloney and either Jamar or Johnson -> Collingwood
Coll and Melb 1st round picks, Lonie and Melbs 2nd round pick -> West Coast.

We could then look at swapping rusling for meeson to sure up our ruck division as our forwardline is chockers at the moment with Trav, Dawes, Reid, Rocca for 3ish years, bucks maybe another, didak, leon, cook, thomas, ect...

I believe we lose significantly in that 3 way trade and the trade before that.

 

[Bonuspoints]

No point discussing trade deals this early as we don't really know how deep the draft is or whether there is stand out talent in it. Plus this year is so competitive that teams in the top 8 could easily fall down hard into the bottom 6. If we are to have a genuine shot at the premiership next year or 2009 then we're probably going to have to do some trading.

 

[mdc]

The lack of trades by most clubs, not just collingwood is a massive mistake. Part of the problem is the ridiculous trade WEEK when most sports have months in which to negotiate.

Let me give you an example. We've all seen that Ben Reid is going to be a player, and Nathan Brown is likely going to be more than solid. But consider this - we had the no.8 and the no.10 pick. If we had simply traded up from no.8 to no.7 (I can't imagine this would have taken a whole lot)...we'd be having a debate about who's better out of Pendles and Selwood, both on our list. That's a debate I would have liked to have. If we could then trade no.10 for no.4 (would have taken a lot more, but would have certainly been worth it IMO), we'd have Leunburger as well.

10-4 is a big jump, and would have depended on what bris. wanted...but 8-7 was SOOO easy to do, and everyone knew the player we so desperately wanted in Selwood was probably going to be there at 7.

The "let's sit on our arse and see who falls to us in the draft" approach is bogus. Actively looking for trades is always going to give a club an advantage as long as the people running the club know what they're doing. Ours seem to be competent enough.

It's not good enough having the best mid-sized defenders and half-forward flankers in the league but still having O'bree as your best clearance man. Now is the time to use some of that depth and get certified players at KEY positions.

 

[1eye]

The lack of trades by most clubs, not just collingwood is a massive mistake. Part of the problem is the ridiculous trade WEEK when most sports have months in which to negotiate.

Let me give you an example. We've all seen that Ben Reid is going to be a player, and Nathan Brown is likely going to be more than solid. But consider this - we had the no.8 and the no.10 pick. If we had simply traded up from no.8 to no.7 (I can't imagine this would have taken a whole lot)...we'd be having a debate about who's better out of Pendles and Selwood, both on our list. That's a debate I would have liked to have. If we could then trade no.10 for no.4 (would have taken a lot more, but would have certainly been worth it IMO), we'd have Leunburger as well.

10-4 is a big jump, and would have depended on what bris. wanted...but 8-7 was SOOO easy to do, and everyone knew the player we so desperately wanted in Selwood was probably going to be there at 7.

The "let's sit on our arse and see who falls to us in the draft" approach is bogus. Actively looking for trades is always going to give a club an advantage as long as the people running the club know what they're doing. Ours seem to be competent enough.

It's not good enough having the best mid-sized defenders and half-forward flankers in the league but still having O'bree as your best clearance man. Now is the time to use some of that depth and get certified players at KEY positions.

Call me cynical, but I wonder how much Neil Balme had to do with Geelong getting Selwood. Assuming of course we wanted to get Selwood and Pie eating Balmey......